As the days of Noah

Has anyone read Pember's Earth's Earliest Age? I started reading again The Spiritual Man and noticed most of the early references were for that book. It was available on Amazon but the write up so intrigued I wanted to know how others viewed the book while I wait for it to arrive. His postulation was that the last sign of the times was that the fallen angels would be as active on Earth as at the time of Noah. Really can't wait to read it.

timewerx said:

They were since the Roman Empire and before that. The conspiracy to destroy the Library at Alexandria was probably to conceal it .

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Wow, that's bizzare. I was hoping to get some information about that somehow too for other research I'm doing. Thanks

solid_core said:

Try to actually read the words of Christ.

"26“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all."

He was not talking about angels, he was talking about being worryless, living in various forms of wordly/bodily amusement and not being able to recognize that the end is coming.

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Just as ... somehow gets my attention.

Ok so the book arrived and since no one seems to have read it and it’ll be on a long line of other books I have waiting I’ll just add from the write up on the outer jacket other biblical reference of intrigue:

Jesus Himself, in answering His disciples as to the signs of His coming and of the end of the world, verified it would be ‘as the days of Noah’ were Matthew 24:37. The implication is, just as it was before the flood when the spirits of Nephilim were powerful upon the earth Genesis 6:4 mankind would experience an end-times renaissance of the influence of those entities.
Does a curious verse in the book of Daniel validate Pember’s thesis?
Speaking of the last days of human government, Daniel said “ They shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay” Daniel 2:43
While Daniel does not explain who “they” that “mingle themselves with the seed of men” are, the personal pronoun of “they” raises questions over what, or who, in the end times “mingle with the seed of men”? Who are the non-seed?
It staggers the mind to contemplate how the same phenomenon that occurred in Genesis 6, where nonhuman or “nonseed” mingled with human seed and produced Nephilim could happen again in the end-times.
Yet when this verse from Daniel is coupled with Genesis 3:15, which says, “and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed [zera, meaning offspring, descendants or children] and her seed” an incredible tenet emerges -- that satan has seed, that it is at enmity with Christ, and that it is set to return in these last days.

(might be worth the read)

The text doesn’t say that Satan had off-spring but there are analogies of Christ that elude to it. Speaking to His opponents, the unbelievers, He said:

John 8:44-45
“You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.”

And John B also said the religious rulers were a brood of vipers Matthew 3:7, repeated by Jesus Matthew 12:34, the same snake that bit Paul, and the native people thought him to be a god because he lived.

Those people were deceitful Matthew 23:15, dangerous Matthew 15:14, and wicked John 8:37. Jesus states that such were fooling themselves to think they would escape judgement. Matthew 23:33

Especially with John B it seems that the call was to make them aware of their wickedness and to repent, which points to the dual nature of humanity and the choice before it to bear fruit originating from the trees, or seeds, of the garden, placed before each and everyone for their edification. One corruptible and the other incorruptible.

The heretical supposition was about Eve having intercourse with the snake to produce Cain iirc

PS, I’ll get around to reading it as soon as I finish the one I’m working on now and will post on what I find. Btw it was written in 1876 and called a masterpiece at that time,

Speaking of the book I'm now reading, The Spiritual Man~ Watchman Nee~ I pick it up to read from where I'd left off and Genesis 6 is the subject.

God Himself declares "My Spirit shall not always strive in man forever, for he is flesh" Gen 6:3
"those who are in the flesh cannot please God" Rom 8:8

This "cannot" seals the fate of the fleshly. God looks upon the flesh as utterly corrupt. So closely is it linked with lust that the bible often refers to "lusts of the flesh" 2 Pet 2:8

Great tho His power, God nontheless cannot transform the nature of flesh into something pleasing to Himself. Refining and reforming the flesh are useless.

In saving the world, therefore, He does not try to alter man's flesh, He instead gives man(of course we're talking male and female in case there are still Neanderthals in the reading audience) gives man a new life in order to help him put it to death.

The flesh must die, that is salvation.

My thoughts: the tools to do so are found at the foot of the cross where identity with Christ is found. I reckon that once flesh is dealt with the spiritual person can gain access to understand heavenly things thru identification with the risen Lord.

BobRyan said:

1. Matt 24 is not focused on the work of evil angels but of wicked mankind being the same as at the time of Noah "they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away".

Matt 24
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

What the "evil angels" are doing is described more in Rev 13 and Rev 16 6th plague.

2. “ They shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay” Daniel 2:43 as a reference to the final days -- the time of ten toes ,, and ten horns of the sequence in Daniel 7. Same thing. The nations divide after the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire - never to reunite again -- .. HOWEVER they try to intermarry the royal houses of Europe to bring it all back together - but it does not work. Today all the royal houses of Europe are "related" - but that prediction in Dan 2 is that "it does not work" to reunite them all into one single empire as they were under Rome.

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Those are the same references that are mentioned on the jacket of the book. I’ve studied SDA revelation a long time ago (90’s) as well as Bullinger etc so will see if it has anything original to say, hopefully.

This is the guist from the intro:

Spiritualism has greatly developed with (alongside) two waves of kindred thought. Theosophy and Buddhism. In no point, perhaps, is it's real unity more easily discerned than in the main object of it's teachings, which is, to set aside the salvation of the Lord Jesus, and to substitute the doctrine that sin must be gradually worn away by our own works and sufferings, either in the spirit-world or in a series of reincarnation upon the earth.

The latter scheme, or spiritual evolution, proceeded and, as it were, introduced by the physical evolutionary theories, is, under sundry disguises and with various modifications, insinuating itself in quarters where it's rejection might have been deemed certain. But Christians, at least, ought to percieve that it is directly subversive of the Biblical cosmogeny and plan of salvation: and that, by it's very nature, it tends, more slowly perhaps, but not less surely, to obliterate the Great Creator Himself from the minds of His creatures.


Hmn, may read them side by each for contrast.

The first implication is toward obedience to the study of prophesy, to revive interest in prophetic scriptures, and object that the study of prophesy is unreasonable to the believer.

Secondly that great blessings follow the study of prophesy, as grace always follows obedience, Revelation 1:3 by means of light shining into the darkness to guide our path, as well as in recognition of the continuity of His Word; for the world to be taught to recognize it’s creator and find rest from it’s frenzied toil. Isaiah 26:9, Luke 21:35

That a knowledge of the revealed purpose of God tends to conform our will to His (reconciliation) and is profitable for sanctification.

And lastly, the study of prophesy reveals the mind and will of God.

The experiences of today’s world tend to increase the longing of the saints for the coming of the Lord’s return. How blessed would we be to experience that! To see the triumph of truth and righteousness!

The Lord Jesus is the centre of God’s word to us Luke 24:27, John 5:39 therefore He is the key to the word of God. Remove Him from it and no one can understand it Hebrews 10:7. The person of Christ is the subject and the glory of Christ is the object. In not seeing Christ then all that remains is vanity.

As members of one body, the Father has bestowed gifts to all for the purpose of edifying one another .. and .. all are to bring their gifts to the table. 1 Corinthians 14:26, Romans 12:5-18

Being confident in His care and His love, growing from infancy to maturity in moral character, 1 Corinthians 14:20 we're at the same time being fitted together as living stones building up His temple, knowing that our own care for each other spiritually establishes the other great commandment of one heart toward each other Jeremiah 32:38-40, Ezekiel 11:19-20, Acts of the Apostles 4:32-35, Matthew 6:21 in all heart, soul, mind and strength. Romans 15:1, 1 John 2

So vertically and horizontally the cross is doing it's work. Peace becomes established when we don't take on His Name in vain. Exodus 20:7, Isaiah 29, Matthew 15:7-9

In deed that is vanity. Being aware that the battle is not against flesh and blood, flesh and blood needs also be aware that the alternative is fighting against God. John 3:17-19, Jeremiah 7:4-11, Hebrews 3:8, Hebrews 3:15

As people separated to the Lord we reach the unity of faith and knowledge of God’s Son together in making ourselves ready for His return Ephesians 4:13-14, Revelation 19:7, Matthew 5:14-16 while the Saviour fights the battle against the world/satan and self for us. 2 Corinthians 2:15-17, John 8:12

In always keeping His return in sight we can't slack off but be vigilant as keepers of the house that awaits in faith. Luke 18:8, Matthew 5:13, 2 Peter 1:10 “He spoke a parable to them that men ought always to pray and not to faint.” Matthew 25:29, Titus 2:11-14

1 Peter 1:17-21

Let’s never forget our purpose.

The seven Spirits of God, Revelation 1:4, Revelation 5:6

One lampstand but seven functions. The Spirit of God, intensified sevenfold to accomplish God's work on earth.

Christ's eyes are the expression of love in Song of Songs but in this prophesy they are like a flame of fire that observes and searches to exercise enlightened judgements. As He first came to set the captives free here He is seen as Him who completes the reading of the scroll set before Him at Luke 4:18

Seven lamps show the enlightenment of the Spirit of God for God's building, Exodus 25:37, Zechariah 4:2 (building and rebuilding of the temple) but the Revelation prophesy reveals the seven lamps of judgment will also issue in God's building; for the building of the New Jerusalem.


The seven Spirits of God are the manifold operations of the one Divine Spirit. The reference as to the Holy Spirit can be considered with respect to his manifold operations, and are regarded as connected with the work of the Redeemer. All the operations of the Spirit are a part of the work of redemption. The expression "sent forth into all the earth," refers to the fact that the Spirit pervades all things. The Spirit of God sent out to survey all things and to operate everywhere.

The seven spirits are also described as being the eyes of the lamb, so the lamb and the light are included in one.


The seven eyes upon this stone may be seen as the eyes upon the wheels in Ezekiel’s vision, signifying the perfection and plenitude of knowledge and wisdom in Christ Jesus for the good of His church, and His ever watchful care of His people: or the various gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit, with which He was endued: for He hath the seven spirits of God, as well as the seven stars, and His eyes are as a flame of fire, piercing through all disguises, and searching the reins and the heart of every human creature, and especially of every one that professes to be his disciple.

The eye of the Father was upon him, to take care of him and protect him, especially in his sufferings. The eyes of all the prophets and Old Testament saints were upon this one stone: Abraham rejoiced to see Christ’s day, and he saw it and was glad. The eyes of all believers are upon him, as the eyes of the stung Israelites were upon the brazen serpent. They look unto him and are saved.

Christ is not only the rod of the stem of Jesse, the branch that grew out of his roots, the fruit of which is excellent and edifying for the remnant of Israel that escape the corruption which is in the world, but the foundation of the spiritual temple laid in Zion.

Davy said:

Then have you understood the parable given in Ezekiel 31 about Satan in the old world?

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The thread is about prophesy but not about Hell speculations. We do know that the Ezekiel 31:18 prophesy has been fulfilled, satan was brought down with the trees of Eden and is said to lay with the uncircumcised, as was Pharaoh. That much was fulfilled. The chapter itself points to the rise and fall of the Assyrian Empire 3-17 while verse 18 shows that Egypt and their Pharaoh were to share the same fate. Egypt is well known as a symbol of the world

Davy said:

Then have you understood the parable given in Ezekiel 31 about Satan in the old world?


In Genesis 6, there's a way to know it is specifically speaking literally of the angels taking wives of flesh woman and their offspring being a hybrid race. We are told that Noah was perfect in his generations, the Hebrew word perfect being a word used for a perfect unblemished sacrificial animal per the old covenant. So the subject was definitely about bloodline genealogy.

Revelation 12:7-9 reveals a war in Heaven is when Satan and his angels are cast out, down to the earth. That hasn't happened yet, because we are told the power of Christ then comes in Heaven once Satan is booted out, and also about the saints of the 5th Seal, and then a reference to the serpent going after the Church and the 3.5 years reference for the tribulation.

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
KJV

There's only 2 different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthy dimension we live in, and the heavenly dimension where God and the angels live, which also includes the abode of the wicked called hell in a place of separation away from God.

Since that says 'their place' is not found any more in heaven, then where else can they go? The abode of hell is in... the heavenly dimension, behind a veil. Satan and his angels do not have flesh bodies, they are not from our earthly dimension. Yet we know per God's Word that angels can and have appeared on earth. They've even eaten our food, and appeared with the image of men (Gen.19; Acts 1:10).

That is pointing to Satan being cast literally, to this earth, in our dimension, with his angels.

Revelation 12:3-4 reveals that Satan ("red dragon") originally rebelled against God using a beast system that had 10 horns, 7 heads, but only 7 crowns. That is when he drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth, as revealed there. Since the beast system of Rev.13:1 is defined in Rev.17, with the waters meaning nations, we must point back to that system of old in Rev.12, the one Satan used to rebel with originally, and that helps give us a picture of what is to unfold for our times at the end of this world.

I do not believe Satan's angels will literally mate with flesh woman again (the Gen.6 angels are locked in chains, reserved for Judgment). But I do definitely believe he and his angels are coming to our earthly dimension, and that's what the tribulation will actually be about, and why it will be a time on earth that has never been before, nor ever will be again.

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That does successfully point to the necessity of the circumcised heart, tho, and with the virus going around most of our worldly ways are being curtailed too. So that’, at least, is a good thing!

Davy said:

Oh I wasn't speaking about hell really, but about Satan and his angels being cast down to this earth for the end, per Revelation 12:7 forward.

The point about Ezekiel 31 as a parable about Satan, even though God used the title of the "Assyrian", and pointed to Pharaoh, is that it points to a previous world time when Satan first rebelled.

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Yah I kinda knew that but it’s still speculation as to time frame. Clearly satan is still active on earth thru those who are set on destroying it.

But I’m definitely a believer that the gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 are in fact biblical and easily explains the controversies that arise from other theories that don’t take into account fossils etc.

That satan’s first fall was to the earth seems reasonable and so his claim to it, that was further established at the garden. We became dust again and therefore top of the list of satan’s food chain. The only way is to rise above that as the new creation which is God’s plan of salvation. m2c