Question for rapture people

nolidad

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Bozrah and Petra are NOT the same place.

The sharp sword in the mouth of Jesus is TRUTH.

Treading the winepress symbolizes crushing grapes and spilling blood. The Temple was destroyed in late August.. in the time of the grape harvest.

Bozrah is the Hebrew name for Petra!

And yes Jesus spilled blood at Petra to break teh siege the antichrist laid to destroy the Jews.

Bozrah
Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Bozrah
Bozrah [N] [H] http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/bozrah.html
enclosure; fortress.

  • The city of Jobab, one of the early Edomite kings ( Genesis 36:33 ). This place is mentioned by the prophets in later times ( Isaiah 34:6 ; Jeremiah 49:13 ; Amos 1:12 ; Micah 2:12 ). Its modern representative is el-Busseireh. It lies in the mountain district of Petra, 20 miles to the south-east of the Dead Sea.
  • A Moabite city in the "plain country" ( Jeremiah 48:24 ), i.e., on the high level down on the east of the Dead Sea. It is probably the modern Buzrah.
 
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nolidad

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LOLOL.. They fled to PELLA not Petra.

Petra - BibArch
www.bibarch.com/archaeologicalsites/petra.htm
Some confuse Petra with Pella. The latter apparently served as a refuge for Jerusalem Christians in the 66-70 CE Roman war with Jewish zealots in the Holy Land.

That is where the believing Jews fled after Titus temporarily broke the siege to go back to Rome to see His Father become Cesar. The remembered the Words of Jesus in Luke and fled across the Jordan to Pella!

They will flee to Petra after the antichrist enters the temple and declares himself God and starts all out genocide against Israel.
 
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summerville

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Bozrah is the Hebrew name for Petra!

And yes Jesus spilled blood at Petra to break teh siege the antichrist laid to destroy the Jews.

Bozrah
Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Bozrah
Bozrah [N] [H]
enclosure; fortress.




    • The city of Jobab, one of the early Edomite kings ( Genesis 36:33 ). This place is mentioned by the prophets in later times ( Isaiah 34:6 ; Jeremiah 49:13 ; Amos 1:12 ; Micah 2:12 ). Its modern representative is el-Busseireh. It lies in the mountain district of Petra, 20 miles to the south-east of the Dead Sea.



    • A Moabite city in the "plain country" ( Jeremiah 48:24 ), i.e., on the high level down on the east of the Dead Sea. It is probably the modern Buzrah.

Sorry. Sela is the Hebrew name for Petra. Petra's sister city is in Arabia.. Its called Madain Selah.
 
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summerville

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That is where the believing Jews fled after Titus temporarily broke the siege to go back to Rome to see His Father become Cesar. The remembered the Words of Jesus in Luke and fled across the Jordan to Pella!

They will flee to Petra after the antichrist enters the temple and declares himself God and starts all out genocide against Israel.

Where in the Bible does it say PETRA?

There is no "all out genocide of Israel".. I know the rapture ready boys teach that a percentage of Jews will convert and the rest will be destroyed.
 
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summerville

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That is where the believing Jews fled after Titus temporarily broke the siege to go back to Rome to see His Father become Cesar. The remembered the Words of Jesus in Luke and fled across the Jordan to Pella!

They will flee to Petra after the antichrist enters the temple and declares himself God and starts all out genocide against Israel.

Luke wasn't written until AFTER the destruction of the Temple.
 
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nolidad

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I have visited both places. Also Sela, which was the Capital of Edom.
None of those ancient sites have anything to do with the end times.
They all are used as allegories for modern places, like Jerusalem, [Tel Aviv] today is likened to Sodom.

The Lord will punish Edom; Bozrah, now the ungodly nations of the world. Isaiah 63:1-6
Judah too He will uproot... Jeremiah 12:14 and all the holy Land will become desolate and de-populated. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 21:11-14, Isaiah 22:14

And why should the world accept your allegorical opinion as authority over the many other allegorical reinterpretations?


al·le·go·ry
/ˈaləˌɡôrē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one
Edom, MOab and Ammon are spared from being conquered by the antichrist, specifically so god can protect the children of Israel until they accpet Jesus as Messiah as prophesied by Paul and by Jeremiah! But Edom and Moab as well as Egypt will be desolate wastelands during the kingdom age.
 
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summerville

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And why should the world accept your allegorical opinion as authority over the many other allegorical reinterpretations?


al·le·go·ry
/ˈaləˌɡôrē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one
Edom, MOab and Ammon are spared from being conquered by the antichrist, specifically so god can protect the children of Israel until they accpet Jesus as Messiah as prophesied by Paul and by Jeremiah! But Edom and Moab as well as Egypt will be desolate wastelands during the kingdom age.

Pella isn't Petra and I too have been to both.

"Edom and Moab as well as Egypt will be desolate wastelands".. failed prophecy.
 
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nolidad

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Sorry. Sela is the Hebrew name for Petra. Petra's sister city is in Arabia.. Its called Madain Selah.

Well you can take that up with the scholars!

Pella isn't Petra and I too have been to both.

"Edom and Moab as well as Egypt will be desolate wastelands".. failed prophecy.

I know that! Pella is where believing Jews fled from 67-68 AD after Titus went to Rome to see daddy Vespasian crowned cesar.

Luke 21:20-24 King James Version (KJV)
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Petra is where the Jews flee after the antichrist enters the holy of holies (the abomination of desolation)

Matthew 24:15-24 King James Version (KJV)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

While there are many similarities, if one reads carefully, there are great differences that inform us these are two separate events.

Luke is history, Matthew is yet to come.

Pella isn't Petra and I too have been to both.

"Edom and Moab as well as Egypt will be desolate wastelands".. failed prophecy.

Too bad you think that God doesn't keep His Word!

But Edom, Moab and Egypt will be desolate wastelands during the millenial kingdom as reminders.


Luke wasn't written until AFTER the destruction of the Temple.

That is what the modernist critics of Gods Word love us to believe. But the best scholarship puts it at 63-66 AD Right befoe Titus started the siege of Jerusalem.


Where in the Bible does it say PETRA?

There is no "all out genocide of Israel".. I know the rapture ready boys teach that a percentage of Jews will convert and the rest will be destroyed.

It says Bozrah which is the city el-Bassirah in the Petra region of the transjordanian desert.

And it is not the "rapture ready boys" who say that, but SCripture itself!

According to the minor prophets 2/3 of all Israelis will be killed during the 70th week of Daniel and the remaining 1/3 will have the veil removed and recieve Jesus as Messiah, cry "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord" and cause Jesus to return.

Israel is forced to flee when the antichrist breaks his covenant, as told in Daniel 9 and Matt. 24. and is described also in Rev. 12. The woman is Israel (Josephs dream and the fact the woman gives birth to Jesus)
Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
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summerville

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Well you can take that up with the scholars!



I know that! Pella is where believing Jews fled from 67-68 AD after Titus went to Rome to see daddy Vespasian crowned cesar.

Luke 21:20-24 King James Version (KJV)
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Petra is where the Jews flee after the antichrist enters the holy of holies (the abomination of desolation)

Matthew 24:15-24 King James Version (KJV)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

While there are many similarities, if one reads carefully, there are great differences that inform us these are two separate events.

Luke is history, Matthew is yet to come.



Too bad you think that God doesn't keep His Word!

But Edom, Moab and Egypt will be desolate wastelands during the millenial kingdom as reminders.




That is what the modernist critics of Gods Word love us to believe. But the best scholarship puts it at 63-66 AD Right befoe Titus started the siege of Jerusalem.




It says Bozrah which is the city el-Bassirah in the Petra region of the transjordanian desert.

And it is not the "rapture ready boys" who say that, but SCripture itself!

According to the minor prophets 2/3 of all Israelis will be killed during the 70th week of Daniel and the remaining 1/3 will have the veil removed and recieve Jesus as Messiah, cry "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord" and cause Jesus to return.

Israel is forced to flee when the antichrist breaks his covenant, as told in Daniel 9 and Matt. 24. and is described also in Rev. 12. The woman is Israel (Josephs dream and the fact the woman gives birth to Jesus)
Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Both Pella and Petra are in Jordan, but they are not the same place. The followers of Jesus fled to Pella in 66 AD to avoid the tribulation so it couldn't have been world wide. As Josephus describes the time of the 42 months it was a horror of famine, death and disease unlike the world had ever seen.

The Jews routed the Romans in 66 AD.. the zealots, sicarri, Galileans, Idumians continued their rages in Jerusalem and the countryside.

In 70 AD when Titus returned with his Roman garrisons he also commanded troops from nearby countries in the Roman Empire of the first century.. So he also commanded Arabs, Syrians and Egyptian troops.. Israel was surrounded by enemy armies.
 
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ewq1938

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How do you overlook the fact that Jesus was an observant Jew?

There is nothing to overlook. The new covenant didn't take effect until Christ died but he was in process of creating a new religion starting with his disciples and then after the cross they would go out to the Jews and gentiles to convert them.

He didn't come to created a new religion.

He did and he succeeded.
 
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ewq1938

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They will flee to Petra after the antichrist enters the temple and declares himself God and starts all out genocide against Israel.

That isn't found in the bible. The AC persecutes Christians not those of Judaism.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
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summerville

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There is nothing to overlook. The new covenant didn't take effect until Christ died but he was in process of creating a new religion starting with his disciples and then after the cross they would go out to the Jews and gentiles to convert them.



He did and he succeeded.

I think you are assuming a lot. Where did Jesus say he came to create a new religion?

He came for the lost sheep of Israel.. Do you understand that the Jews of Israel were considered Hellenized half breeds and bad Jews?
 
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ewq1938

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I think you are assuming a lot. Where did Jesus say he came to create a new religion?

That's an argument from silence fallacy. The NT and history shows Christ created a religion that is called Christianity because it is they that believed him to be the Messiah.
 
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summerville

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That's an argument from silence fallacy. The NT and history shows Christ created a religion that is called Christianity because it is they that believed him to be the Messiah.

Jesus didn't start a new religion and he never heard of a church. You do know that the Jews expected a Messiah.
 
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ewq1938

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Jesus didn't start a new religion

Yes he did. It's one of the largest religions in the world.

and he never heard of a church.

He is God. He knew that Christians would build churches.

You do know that the Jews expected a Messiah.

Yes they expected one and rejected him. The majority had a false idea of the Messiah and Jesus didn't measure up well enough.
 
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summerville

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Yes he did. It's one of the largest religions in the world.



He is God. He knew that Christians would build churches.



Yes they expected one and rejected him. The majority had a false idea of the Messiah and Jesus didn't measure up well enough.

Do you get that he came for the lost sheep of Israel and what was wrong with them?
 
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Do you get that he came for the lost sheep of Israel and what was wrong with them?
Jesus came to provide a sacrifice for the sins of all who would accept Him.
People from every tribe, race, nation and language have accepted Him, they obey His Commandments and look forward to His Return. Revelation 5:9-10

Conclusion: Christians ARE the House of Israel, by faith and also as a majority; actual descendants of Jacob. God knows who we all are, Amos 9:9, but our ancestry is lost to us.
 
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summerville

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Well you can take that up with the scholars!



I know that! Pella is where believing Jews fled from 67-68 AD after Titus went to Rome to see daddy Vespasian crowned cesar.

Luke 21:20-24 King James Version (KJV)
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Petra is where the Jews flee after the antichrist enters the holy of holies (the abomination of desolation)

Matthew 24:15-24 King James Version (KJV)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

While there are many similarities, if one reads carefully, there are great differences that inform us these are two separate events.

Luke is history, Matthew is yet to come.



Too bad you think that God doesn't keep His Word!

But Edom, Moab and Egypt will be desolate wastelands during the millenial kingdom as reminders.




That is what the modernist critics of Gods Word love us to believe. But the best scholarship puts it at 63-66 AD Right befoe Titus started the siege of Jerusalem.




It says Bozrah which is the city el-Bassirah in the Petra region of the transjordanian desert.

And it is not the "rapture ready boys" who say that, but SCripture itself!

According to the minor prophets 2/3 of all Israelis will be killed during the 70th week of Daniel and the remaining 1/3 will have the veil removed and recieve Jesus as Messiah, cry "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord" and cause Jesus to return.

Israel is forced to flee when the antichrist breaks his covenant, as told in Daniel 9 and Matt. 24. and is described also in Rev. 12. The woman is Israel (Josephs dream and the fact the woman gives birth to Jesus)
Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Gospel of Luke
At a Glance
Gospel
Genre:
(4/5) ****
Reliability of Dating:
(4/5) ****
Length of Text:
Greek
Original Language:
Ancient Translations:

Modern Translations:
English
luke.jpg



Estimated Range of Dating: 80-130 A.D.

The Gospel of Luke assumes that you know the identity of Bernice.

Gospel of Luke
 
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summerville

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Jesus came to provide a sacrifice for the sins of all who would accept Him.
People from every tribe, race, nation and language have accepted Him, they obey His Commandments and look forward to His Return. Revelation 5:9-10

Conclusion: Christians ARE the House of Israel, by faith and also as a majority; actual descendants of Jacob. God knows who we all are, Amos 9:9, but our ancestry is lost to us.

Christians aren't the House of Israel except in the Scofield Bible.
 
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