You are trying to explain away every other passage by your opinion of 1 Thessalonians 4. This is simply NOT true. I take all end times scriptures into account before forming a theory. However, I certainly don't throw out Paul's catching up verse! Paul was the only writer who received revelation of the rapture of the church. Therefore it is critical in forming end time doctrine for the church.
I have shown you that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 is climactic, yet you have ducked around the evidence. There are no survivors in that text. There is no 7 years tribulation following it. It is the end of the world. You just bounce to Revelation when cornered, where you admit have no rapture text to sustain your argument.
Are you being totally fair here? You believe there is only one coming so you read that preconceived idea into this verse.
"then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and
they shall not escape."
Question: if an earthquake was worldwide - that is the ground shaking everywhere, could anyone "escape" that shaking? (Perhaps if they were flying at the time!). All who are on the ground cannot escape. They are going to get shook! Did everyone in the great earthquake that caused Japan's tsunami die? No! Many lived through it. Paul is not saying that everyone dies!
No one escapes according to the Bible. But in Pretrib, no one dies. The two messages could not be more opposing. I prefer Scripture. The dual aspect of Christ’s return is found in II Thessalonians 1:4-10, where we find a 3rd New Testament reference to the same Greek word
kataxioō. It similarly says,
“we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy (or kataxioō) of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
Paul is here consoling the believers in his day who were experiencing terrible persecution. He assured them that their current distress would be nothing to the future glory awaiting them. He reminded them that there was a day coming when all the wicked would be destroyed and all the righteous would be marvelously transformed and rewarded.
When Jesus appears the righteous and the wicked will be eternally separated. The righteous will inherit the kingdom of God the wicked will be destroyed “from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.” This reading shows us that men must warrant the kingdom of God; it is not given to everyone. Other clear Scripture tells us that there are but few that will experience the eternal kingdom – only those that are “counted worthy.” It is a meritorious thing, just like the catching away of the saints to escape the wrath of God and the reward of the age to come.
This passage recognizes only two types of person – saved and lost – and conclusively confirms that it is only those that know God and obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ that will survive the second coming. The rest are expressly destroyed. This agrees with Christ’s words in Luke 20:34-36 that the kingdom of God to come which Christ ushers in at His appearing is solely for those that are suitably qualified.
The only other time the Greek word in view is used is in Acts 5:41 where the disciples rejoiced in their persecution and the fact “they were counted worthy (or
kataxioō) to suffer shame for his name.”
Question: how in the world are you going to have people left alive for the sheep and goat judgment when all die the moment Jesus descends? How is there going to be any tares when the parable of the tares plays out?
It's called a general resurrection! If you would care to look at the Bible through the openly and objectively Bible, and ignore what your Pretrib teachers have taught you, you will discover it. I'm sorry that you don't realize that there is a resurrection before the general judgment.
The resurrection/judgment are tied together. It obviously takes one to allow the other. For there to be one general judgment then Scripture must also teach one general resurrection. This I believe Scripture does in several places.
I believe there is one physical resurrection day that sees one all-encompassing raising of mankind. However, within that one resurrection there are two distinct categories of rising embodied: (1) unto “life,” and (2) unto “damnation.” Notwithstanding, there is an undoubted order to the general resurrection; the dead in Christ will rise first, etc.
It is at this great concluding event that both the righteous and the wicked will be raised to face the great final judgment. Notwithstanding, there are two aspects to the one all-consummating resurrection day. Jesus explains in John 5:28-29,
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
Please notice
“the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” We are not just looking at the righteous, we are looking at both the righteous and the wicked. The passage goes on to confirm:
“they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” All that are in the graves will come forth when He comes. The righteous will be ushered into His glorious kingdom, the wicked shall be damned for all eternity in the lake of fire.
The righteous and wicked dead all rise in response to the same sovereign voice - Christ's. Christ’s description of the resurrection depicts a unitary event, albeit in two parts. Part 1 is the elect; Part 2 is the wicked. Jesus explains in John 5:28-29,
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” Evidently there is only one resurrection albeit involving two separated aspects:
“they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
There is no 1,000 years’ separation mentioned or hinted at in here.
Evidently there is only one resurrection albeit involving two separated aspects.
This reading expressly speaks of a time in history when the dead (both good and evil) “shall hear his (Christ’s) voice, and shall come forth.” Notwithstanding, this perfectly correlates with every explicit reference to the judgment in Scripture that shows both the righteous and wicked being brought to account at the same time. Therefore, both parties must of necessity be raised around the same time to fulfil such. The reading before us substantiates this requirement in the most explicit language possible.
There is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation. Acts 24:15 says,
“there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular),
both of the just and unjust.”
This verse speaks of a singular “resurrection of the dead”
not multiple resurrections (plural) of the dead as the Premillennialist would try and intimate. The fact that Paul differentiates between the wicked and the righteous in no way proves that these are two separate resurrections coming at the end of two separate ages split by 1,000 years+ of history (filled with all the produce of the curse – sin, death and corruption). No, it simply demonstrates that there are two types of resurrection in the one final resurrection of the dead at the end. In fact, for Premils to insist on their concept is to force something into the passage that doesn’t truly exist. Scripture constantly distinguishes between the wicked and the righteous even though they are found participating in the same event at the same time. Why would anyone think it strange that the Holy Spirit would identify the two different parties that take part in the general “resurrection of the dead”? After all, it is a normal biblical procedure to distinguish between these two conflicting camps. Although to suggest that the identifying of these two distinct parties indicates two separate events at two separate times is illogical.
Amils could apply the same type of reasoning to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and quickly demolish this Premillennial logic. There Paul identifies two distinct groups: “the
dead in Christ” and the “alive" in Christ. Identifying these two
distinct groups, which all Premils agree partake in the one physical resurrection. However, this does not in any way support the idea of two separate resurrections.
The resurrection Premils try to make plural is actually feminine singular accusative. It is not plural. Regardless of how much they try, it still remains one singular resurrection involving two parties. That is indeed the general resurrection. It is they forces 1,000 yrs into this reading and every other resurrection/judgment passage. Your lack of corroboration disallows your initial commendable post on supporting Scripture with Scripture. That is why I asked you at the start. I knew there was no support for your literalist approach to Rev 20.
Once again, there is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation.
Jesus said in Matthew 12:41-42,
“The men of Nineveh shall rise (
anistemi Strong’s 450)
in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up (
egeiro Strong’s 1453)
in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”
The righteous Old Testament Gentile saint – the queen of the south – is raised at the same time as the wicked Pharisees of Christ’s day to stand before the same judgment seat of Christ.
This is further impressed in the parallel portion in Luke 11:31, only with an additional example, saying,
“The queen of the south shall rise up (or)
egeiro (Strong’s 1453)
in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh shall rise up (or)
anistemi (Strong’s 450)
in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”
Here, the two main words used throughout the New Testament for resurrection are applied to the general resurrection that occurs on Judgment Day when the Old Testament time saints and wicked join the New Testament saints and wicked at the judgment. Remember the queen of the south and Nineveh are presented as Old Testament Gentile saints that will “rise up in the judgment with” the wicked unbelieving Jews of Christ’s day. There is no prolonged parenthesis period separating the resurrection of the wicked dead and the resurrection of the righteous dead. They both “rise up” at the same time. The Old Testament Gentile city of Nineveh is shown to “rise up in the judgment with” (or meta) the religious Jewish world of Christ’s day and “condemn it.” The Greek word meta (3326) is described in Strong’s concordance as “a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; ‘amid’.”
Amils therefore maintain that there is one general resurrection, of the just and unjust, at the second advent of Christ. The righteous then inherit the earth in an eternal state. Premils understanding of Revelation 20 conflict with numerous Scripture. Daniel 12:2 teaches a general resurrection at the end of the tribulation. This is in order for a general judgment – sheep/goats, wheat/tares before the same throne at the same time.
Daniel 12:1-3 reveals,
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”
This reading shows a general resurrection involving two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means:
the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely:
“the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”
