My best friend is living in sin

Maria Billingsley · Mar 15, 2020

Billy UK said:
In your opinion then is it ok for me to show my love to a sister in the church by kissing and cuddling up to her intimately if I have no intention of marrying her ?

Any woman would find this a violation. The OP is speaking of a courtship.

Billy UK · Mar 15, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
Any woman would find this a violation. The OP is speaking of a courtship.

No the Sister is convicted in her conscience because her professing Christian friends are being sexual with each other when they are not married. How do you kiss someone intimately and not feel sexual desire when you both are initially physically attracted to each other ? This is sexual lust and it is only allowed by God within the confines of marriage in regards to a professing believer

Also please show me what you call courtship in the Bible in which God condones sexual contact before a marriage covenant ?

Maria Billingsley · Mar 15, 2020

Billy UK said:
No the Sister is convicted in her conscience because her professing Christian friends are being sexual with each other when they are not married. How do you kiss someone intimately and not feel sexual desire when you both are initially physically attracted to each other ? This is sexual lust and it is only allowed by God within the confines of marriage in regards to a professing believer

Also please show me what you call courtship in the Bible in which God condones sexual contact before a marriage covenant ?

I am going to end this conversation. I really feel for your generation. I hope it all works out for all of you. For now, I will stick to my conviction that affection between a courting couple is not a sin. Fornication is a sin.
Blessings

GaveMeJoy · Mar 15, 2020

SkyWriting said:
We are incapable of identifying sin in the lives of others.
1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

interesting interpretation of the Samuel passage. This one is Matt 18:15 is pretty clear. Thoughts?
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

GaveMeJoy · Mar 15, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
Scripture is silent on the matter. Let each person follow their conscience.
Blessings

You all need to read this it’s pretty accurate, Holy Spirit’s lead if there isn’t specific scripture.

Leet · Mar 15, 2020

You've said your piece to her, so pray.
But don't stop being her friend and definitely don't rat her out and cause expulsion.

SkyWriting · Mar 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
interesting interpretation of the Samuel passage. This one is Matt 18:15 is pretty clear. Thoughts?
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

lol....there is nothing mentioned about being correct!

We are incapable of identifying sin in the lives of others.
1 Samuel 16 - For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Billy UK · Mar 15, 2020

SkyWriting said:
We are incapable of identifying sin in the lives of others.
1 Samuel 16 - For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Matthew 15:19-20 (KJV)

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

We see that clearly we can identify sin as God does through using Scripture and agreeing with it.

SkyWriting · Mar 15, 2020

Billy UK said:
Matthew 15:19-20 (KJV)

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

We see that clearly we can identify sin as God does through using Scripture and agreeing with it.

In ourselves, but not in others.
Vs 20 explains that outward appearances of others has no value.
You can't see most of the incidents of vs 19 in other people.
But you can see your own sins.

Billy UK · Mar 15, 2020

SkyWriting said:
In ourselves, but not in others.
Vs 20 explains that outward appearances of others has no value.
You can't see most of the incidents of vs 19 in other people.
But you can see your own sins.

I can at times see my own and other's sins and so can you so lets no pretend in false humility and dishonor the truth of conviction of sin in our conscience. The key is not to judge and condemn others but instead to do as Paul exhorted which is to rebuke exhort and correct each other in line with the truth from scripture in mercy and forbearance. The Scriptures show that we have a conscience in which God convicts us in regards to choices between right and wrong. Even unbelievers experience conviction of sin in their conscience which is the knowledge and identification of sin between right and wrong based upon the capacity of the conscience's ability to function.

Romans 2:12-16 Amplified Bible (AMP)

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without [regard to] the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged and condemned by the Law. 13 For it is not those who merely hear the Law [as it is read aloud] who are just or righteous before God, but it is those who [actually] obey the Law who will be justified [pronounced free of the guilt of sin and declared acceptable to Him]. 14 When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, though they do not have the Law. 15 They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts; and their conscience [their sense of right and wrong, their moral choices] bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or perhaps defending them 16 on that day when, as my gospel proclaims, God will judge the secrets [all the hidden thoughts and concealed sins] of men through Christ Jesus

Thomas White · Mar 15, 2020

cerulean said:
My best friend and roommate in Bible college has recently been really physical with her boyfriend who she’s only been with for a month, and I’m worried about her. For example, I once saw them “cuddling” on a couch and they were practically on top of each other, and she told me that the other day they made out in his car for half an hour. Lately they’ve started making out in front of our friend group, and we’re all extremely uncomfortable. Me and all my other female friends are really concerned and we’ve talked to her about it multiple times, saying that what they’re doing is making us really uncomfortable and that we’re worried that she’s going to fall into sin with him. After every one of those conversations, she says she’s going to set up boundaries and stop being so physical, but then the next day she goes right back to her inappropriate behavior. She seems to have no real remorse for her actions.

Me and my friends are planning on having a sort of “intervention” with her and her boyfriend where we straight-up tell that that what they’re doing is sinful and it needs to stop immediately. If they still don’t repent, what should we do? Would it be too extreme if I stopped being friends with her until she changes her behavior and got a new roommate? Should we report them to the school’s disciplinary officer, who would probably expel them?

You definitely should not get them expelled. Stay out of it. It is none of your business. Unless they are breaking a law or one is abusing the other, you have no right to interfere unless asked to do so. Your friend has the right to live her life as she sees fit. We all have free will for a reason. If you want to say something to her about them being too affectionate in front of you, then do so. You have a right not be uncomfortable in the privacy of your own home. Most importantly, never end a friendship over something like this. Jesus did not walk away from the sinners just because they sin. Do not be the one to cast the first stone. Show her the pursuit of holiness by living as Christ wants you to live. Show her love, not judgement. THAT is the greatest testament of our God's grace.

Thomas White · Mar 15, 2020

Billy UK said:
I disagree as we see that the apostle Paul rebuked the Corinthian Church for not rebuking a brother who was in sexual sin. If a professing believer continues to refuse to repent of sinful behavior you have separate them from your company in order to show them that it is not acceptable behavior. The Scriptures show that this is God's remedy to the problem unless of course, we think we know better than God.

1 Corinthians (KJV)

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Yeah, that's not going to help anyone. That's just going to cause problems in their relationship. He would lose a friend, not help a friend.

Thomas White · Mar 15, 2020

Billy UK said:
In your opinion then is it ok for me to show my love to a sister in the church by kissing and cuddling up to her intimately if I have no intention of marrying her ?

If that's what the two of you decide to do as consenting adults, yes. But that's between you and her. If you force yourself on her, then you are wrong.

Daniel Martinovich · Mar 15, 2020

cerulean said:
My best friend and roommate in Bible college has recently been really physical with her boyfriend who she’s only been with for a month, and I’m worried about her. For example, I once saw them “cuddling” on a couch and they were practically on top of each other, and she told me that the other day they made out in his car for half an hour. Lately they’ve started making out in front of our friend group, and we’re all extremely uncomfortable. Me and all my other female friends are really concerned and we’ve talked to her about it multiple times, saying that what they’re doing is making us really uncomfortable and that we’re worried that she’s going to fall into sin with him. After every one of those conversations, she says she’s going to set up boundaries and stop being so physical, but then the next day she goes right back to her inappropriate behavior. She seems to have no real remorse for her actions.

Me and my friends are planning on having a sort of “intervention” with her and her boyfriend where we straight-up tell that that what they’re doing is sinful and it needs to stop immediately. If they still don’t repent, what should we do? Would it be too extreme if I stopped being friends with her until she changes her behavior and got a new roommate? Should we report them to the school’s disciplinary officer, who would probably expel them?

There are a lot of issues with this. Yes you should do an intervention and if that does not work then you should report them. Why? Because a little yeast will ferment the whole loaf of bread. Satan gets into churches, or in this case a Christian school, to kill steal and destroy via members who are involved in sins like fornication. I have been observing this for almost forty years. If they are involved in fornication then they have not just opened the door to Satan in their lives but in your lives to.

That is just how it works. Look at how Adam opened the door to Satan our lives. When Jesus came he did not close the door to Satan in our lives. He teaches and empowers us to do it.

Now before someone objects. This is not talking about visitors or seekers in a church. But members who have taken the communion to agape one another. That means to have a good will towards one another. To love one another. Opening the door to Satan into the lives of others is a rejection of that communion. So that door has to be closed by getting the people to repent or by removing them from the fellowship. If you want God to take a stand for you, you have to take a stand for him. For their sake and yours. But mostly for Christ’s sake and those things that belong to him.

Aussie Pete · Mar 16, 2020

SkyWriting said:
We are incapable of identifying sin in the lives of others.
1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

No, but the word of God is clear enough. One reason the church is such a mess is that obvious sin is not being called out. God can reveal sin. We had someone who was committing adultery in secret. One of the elders had a word of knowledge about it and called him out.

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted." Galatians 6:1

Aussie Pete · Mar 16, 2020

Billy UK said:
Can you show me in the Scriptures where the Bible shows and condones a man or woman of God kissing and cuddling someone who they are not married to. I have shown you that Paul said to avoid fornication let each woman have her own husband so please show us where the Bible agrees with your view ?

Lord Jesus said that to look upon a woman with lust is adultery. I do not know how it is possible to get passionate without inciting lust.

Billy UK · Mar 16, 2020

Thomas White said:
If that's what the two of you decide to do as consenting adults, yes. But that's between you and her. If you force yourself on her, then you are wrong.

The point is as a Professing Christian Jesus is meant to become the Lord of our lives. That means that we are meant to do things his way in line with how the word of God says to do things. That is unless you think that your way is better than God's ?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (AMP)

9 I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate with [sexually] immoral people— 10 not meaning the immoral people of this world, or the greedy ones and swindlers, or idolaters, for then you would have to get out of the world and human society altogether! 11 But actually, I have written to you not to associate with any so-called [Christian] brother if he is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater [devoted to anything that takes the place of God], or is a reviler [who insults or slanders or otherwise verbally abuses others], or is a drunkard or a swindler—you must not so much as eat with such a person. 12 For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders (non-believers)? Do you not judge those who are within the church [to protect the church as the situation requires]? 13 God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside [the faith]. Remove the wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].

Billy UK · Mar 16, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Lord Jesus said that to look upon a woman with lust is adultery. I do not know how it is possible to get passionate without inciting lust.

Exactly which is why Paul said to avoid Fornication/Sexual Immorality GET MARRIED. Sexual contact with someone who you are not in a marriage covenant with is sin.

1 Corinthians 7:2 (AMP)

2 But because of [the temptation to participate in] sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

theoneandonlypencil · Mar 16, 2020

@Billy UK @Aussie Pete

Just a friendly reminder that the term 'fornication/fornicator', in the original language meaning inappropriate contenteia, is referring to sexual perversion not limited to pre-marital intercourse(yes, intercourse specifically)but also sexual relations with your relative, another man's woman, a beast, etc etc--a nod back to all of those OT rules.

Furthermore, a more accurate study of Jesus' words on adultery is actually "If any man looks at a woman in order to lust after her, he has sinned" --lust is not merely sexual desire, it is desiring something that does not belong to you; in this case, another man's wife. Adultery is literally only adultery if one of y'all is married. And furthermore, he was also speaking about purposefully thinking lustful thoughts about someone.

Kissing and cuddling is not sinful. Sure, if it gets too much, get married--but kissing and cuddling is not fornication. It's not even sex, which is what inappropriate contenteia is referring to.

Aussie Pete · Mar 16, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
@Billy UK @Aussie Pete

Just a friendly reminder that the term 'fornication/fornicator', in the original language meaning inappropriate contenteia, is referring to sexual perversion not limited to pre-marital intercourse(yes, intercourse specifically)but also sexual relations with your relative, another man's woman, a beast, etc etc--a nod back to all of those OT rules.

Furthermore, a more accurate study of Jesus' words on adultery is actually "If any man looks at a woman in order to lust after her, he has sinned" --lust is not merely sexual desire, it is desiring something that does not belong to you; in this case, another man's wife. Adultery is literally only adultery if one of y'all is married. And furthermore, he was also speaking about purposefully thinking lustful thoughts about someone.

Kissing and cuddling is not sinful. Sure, if it gets too much, get married--but kissing and cuddling is not fornication. It's not even sex, which is what inappropriate contenteia is referring to.

Lord Jesus said that it is what is in the heart that counts. Kissing and cuddling inflames sexual desire (I'm not so old that I forget that). If there is no legitimate way of fulfilling that desire, either it is fulfilled in the wrong way or there is severe physical frustration. Also, we need to wary of causing others offence. Not everyone is comfortable with public displays of lust. Christians are supposed to live at a much higher level than the world.

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