"Flat Earth" or "Globe Earth"

What is the shape of the Earth?

  • "Flat Earth"

    Votes: 7 10.4%
  • "Ball Earth"

    Votes: 60 89.6%

  • Total voters
    67
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prodromos

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You've probably missed my plethora of posts over the last couple of months, where I mentioned I wasn't in the mood to any longer help out those who have shown no other reason to be on these types of threads, other than to give flat earthers a hard time and immediately reject whatever is said.
And yet that is exactly how you respond to posts supporting the globe earth.
This is one of those times. If you want to learn something new, go learn it. I'm not here to win converts or coddle the lazy.
I'm only interested in what is true. If it is something new, I expect to see supporting evidence.
 
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SPF

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I tried being helpful for many months. I provided a lot of content and information. I was abused and insulted over and over for my efforts. You can blame yourself and others for my current lack of caring. Truth is when I do run across someone I think is actually curious, I do try to provide them with information, even though others here immediately pick it apart with ignorance and insults. I am helpful still to a select few.

So, the comment on if I now do anything of value, the answer is that for most of you, no. In fact, most of you can pucker up and smooch... well, I'll stop there considering the forum.
Ok, I think I understand now. You don't like how people picked apart your arguments and so now because you're hurt and offended you instead choose to troll the FE topics, posting unhelpful responses that are spiteful. I hope it makes you feel better about yourself to take out your anger and frustration on us.

Is there anyone else in the FE camp that can help me understand what we should consider something like the Barringer Crater to be? If meteors can't be real since nothing can pierce the dome, what are the meteor craters around the earth supposed to actually be?

What about the Tunguska event in 1908 over Russia? If not a meteor, what do we think that could have been?

And what about comet Shoemaker Levy that impacted Jupiter? Was that entire story made up with faked footage? What would the purpose of that have been?
 
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JackRT

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Where, pray tell, has it been unsuccessful?

We have been able to take people to orbit, to the moon and back; to take probes to every planet to many moons and even comets and even to the edge of interstellar space. There have been disasters and mistakes made along the way but that is to be expected in any exploration of a new frontier. All this has been accomplished by careful astronomical observations and calculations based on the laws of gravity and motion. It really is quite frustrating to have all this denied as some sort of gigantic fraud.

Over the last while I have been pondering a phenomenon that has actually been going for a very long time. I am referring to Denialists and Conspiracy Theorists. While they might seem to be different behaviours, I think they have a commonality in the sort of mind that subscribes to them. What also struck me as curious is the number of them that are centered around science, technology and medicine. Let me list a few.

>> the link between tobacco and cancer, particularly lung cancer

>> the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay

>> the role of chlorofluorinated hydrocarbons in the deterioration of the ozone layer

>> the build up of DDT in the food chain and its effect on both reproduction success in birds and human health.

>> the link between HIV and AIDS

>> the role of vaccination in causing other health issues

>> the historicity of the moon landings

>>UFOs and aliens

>>flat earth

>> chemtrails

>> the human role in CO2 production and climate change

This is hardly an exhaustive list and it is easy to also point out others that have very little, if any, linkage to science, technology or medicine. For example, the historicity of the Holocaust, of the Twin Towers, of the assassination of President Kennedy and of both President Obama's birth place and religion.

What most puzzles me most is the state of mind of both those who advocate these theories and those who so readily subscribe to them. I will throw out a few random thoughts here in the hope that they will generate some discussion.

>> fear and powerlessness --- people feel overwhelmed by events that are beyond their control and require a scapegoat on which to pin their frustration and their anger.

>> fear and ignorance --- people are frightened by their own lack of understanding of the concepts and issues involved and suggest that 'the intellectuals' are trying to put one over on them.

>> the 'little guy syndrome' --- people fear big organizations, big government in particular, and feel the need to lash out at them by suggesting that the little guy is being somehow exploited.

>>contrarianism --- some people love to be different just for the sake of it

>>special knowledge syndrome --- a form of elitism where people like to feel they have some special or secret knowledge that makes them feel smarter and/or better informed than the rest, even if it doesn't have much practical application.

>> religion and political ideologies --- in at least a few cases the culprit is viewed as challenging religious and/or political beliefs.

To illustrate this last point we could look at two examples.

Political --- the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay was opposed as a tactic by communists to poison the whole nation. This was particularly effective in the days of the 'red menace' but has a modern counterpart in the paranoia surrounding international terrorism.

Religious --- new technologies are viewed as challenging religious understandings. This goes back a long way in history. Two hundred years ago Timothy Dwight, Presbyterian minister and president of Yale University wrote “If God had decreed from all eternity that a certain person should die of smallpox, it would be a frightful sin to avoid and annul that decree by the trick of vaccination.” Today we see an echo of that religious fear in the debate surrounding stem cell research.

My final observation is that it seems to me that denialists, conspiracy theorists, and biblical fundamentalists / creationists are often the same people.
 
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prodromos

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I tried being helpful for many months. I provided a lot of content and information.
Strange, when I look through this thread from the beginning I find very little evidence of this.
 
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JacksBratt

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We have been able to take people to orbit, to the moon and back; to take probes to every planet to many moons and even comets and even to the edge of interstellar space. There have been disasters and mistakes made along the way but that is to be expected in any exploration of a new frontier. All this has been accomplished by careful astronomical observations and calculations based on the laws of gravity and motion. It really is quite frustrating to have all this denied as some sort of gigantic fraud.

Over the last while I have been pondering a phenomenon that has actually been going for a very long time. I am referring to Denialists and Conspiracy Theorists. While they might seem to be different behaviours, I think they have a commonality in the sort of mind that subscribes to them. What also struck me as curious is the number of them that are centered around science, technology and medicine. Let me list a few.

>> the link between tobacco and cancer, particularly lung cancer

>> the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay

>> the role of chlorofluorinated hydrocarbons in the deterioration of the ozone layer

>> the build up of DDT in the food chain and its effect on both reproduction success in birds and human health.

>> the link between HIV and AIDS

>> the role of vaccination in causing other health issues

>> the historicity of the moon landings

>>UFOs and aliens

>>flat earth

>> chemtrails

>> the human role in CO2 production and climate change

This is hardly an exhaustive list and it is easy to also point out others that have very little, if any, linkage to science, technology or medicine. For example, the historicity of the Holocaust, of the Twin Towers, of the assassination of President Kennedy and of both President Obama's birth place and religion.

What most puzzles me most is the state of mind of both those who advocate these theories and those who so readily subscribe to them. I will throw out a few random thoughts here in the hope that they will generate some discussion.

>> fear and powerlessness --- people feel overwhelmed by events that are beyond their control and require a scapegoat on which to pin their frustration and their anger.

>> fear and ignorance --- people are frightened by their own lack of understanding of the concepts and issues involved and suggest that 'the intellectuals' are trying to put one over on them.

>> the 'little guy syndrome' --- people fear big organizations, big government in particular, and feel the need to lash out at them by suggesting that the little guy is being somehow exploited.

>>contrarianism --- some people love to be different just for the sake of it

>>special knowledge syndrome --- a form of elitism where people like to feel they have some special or secret knowledge that makes them feel smarter and/or better informed than the rest, even if it doesn't have much practical application.

>> religion and political ideologies --- in at least a few cases the culprit is viewed as challenging religious and/or political beliefs.

To illustrate this last point we could look at two examples.

Political --- the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay was opposed as a tactic by communists to poison the whole nation. This was particularly effective in the days of the 'red menace' but has a modern counterpart in the paranoia surrounding international terrorism.

Religious --- new technologies are viewed as challenging religious understandings. This goes back a long way in history. Two hundred years ago Timothy Dwight, Presbyterian minister and president of Yale University wrote “If God had decreed from all eternity that a certain person should die of smallpox, it would be a frightful sin to avoid and annul that decree by the trick of vaccination.” Today we see an echo of that religious fear in the debate surrounding stem cell research.

My final observation is that it seems to me that denialists, conspiracy theorists, and biblical fundamentalists / creationists are often the same people.
All "conspiracy theories" have basis on some form of evidence or situation that should not be ignored or tested...

In the past, it has been proven, many years later, that JFK was indeed assasinated and there was at least 6 gunmen.

Even now we have the whole "climate change" hoax being proven wrong..

Some things will go on for decades before they are exposed or proven wrong...

I find that people who are interested in "conspiracy theories" have one thing in common.. They don't trust government, military, the media and scientists... for good reason.

Take some time and listen to this:
 
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SPF

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it has been proven, many years later, that JFK was indeed assasinated and there was at least 6 gunmen.
You have an interesting idea of what “proven” actually means. Anyone other than conspiracy theorists agree that 6 gunmen were “proven”?
 
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JackRT

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In the past, it has been proven, many years later, that JFK was indeed assasinated and there was at least 6 gunmen.

OK, that proves only that there are multiple theories out there.

Even now we have the whole "climate change" hoax being proven wrong..

Do tell! After all these years of trying to educate you, you still insist on using the word "proof".
 
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JacksBratt

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OK, that proves only that there are multiple theories out there.



Do tell! After all these years of trying to educate you, you still insist on using the word "proof".
If something as accepted as the JFK assassination, by the CIA and other government operatives, is not something that you can accept... then you are completely naive to the truth that is going on in plain site in this world today.
 
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SPF

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If something as accepted as the JFK assassination, by the CIA and other government operatives, is not something that you can accept... then you are completely naive to the truth that is going on in plain site in this world today.
I’m still waiting for you to demonstrate how it was PROVEN that there were 6 gunmen that killed JFK. You do know what proven means, right?

I’ll tell you what, just give me a link to this 6 gunmen story that is sourced from a reputable and credible source.

Or you’re welcome to walk back your comments if you prefer.
 
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JacksBratt

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I’m still waiting for you to demonstrate how it was PROVEN that there were 6 gunmen that killed JFK. You do know what proven means, right?

I’ll tell you what, just give me a link to this 6 gunmen story that is sourced from a reputable and credible source.

Or you’re welcome to walk back your comments if you prefer.
Well, there is this documentary "Inside JFK's Assassination" for one and then there is the documentary called "Everything is a Rich man's trick" for another.. Combined with countless books on the subject..

However, I doubt if you will ever be convinced. Some people just believe what they are told and balk at anything that comes later to shed light on foul play that goes against the government, the police, the military and any other accredited organization ever ever doing things that disingenuous to their cause.

I really don't know how you can tell what is truth anymore... I am sure of one thing... The general populous could not handle it if it were revealed today.
 
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SPF

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I really don't know how you can tell what is truth anymore... I am sure of one thing... The general populous could not handle it if it were revealed today.
Thats an interesting thing for someone to say who makes multiple claims of certain topics and conclusions being “proven”. Apparently you’re capable of knowing what is Truth since you think so many controversial (conspiracy) topics are actually proven.

And it’s also interesting what you said because YOU ARE part of the general populous. Does this mean you don’t think you can handle the truth?
 
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d taylor

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Just as Paul states the Jews were trusted with the very words of God, meaning the Tanakh. Meaning that God describes His creation as a flat and stationary earth in The Tanakh.

A christian who believes the man/satan by way of science lie of a globe earth, rejects the very oracles God gave the Hebrews about His creation.
 
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d taylor

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You referred to the crater saying, "That could very well be one of the many places that water from the great deep burst forth."
Nothing in Genesis 1:9-10 referring to craters, or openings leading to subterranean depths for that matter, which craters very clearly aren't. Hence my comment about your flat earth 'science'.
I guess the blind will stay blind.
 
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SPF

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I guess the blind will stay blind.
I guess the Biblically uneducated will continue to display their sub-elementary level of hermeneutical ability when literally believing in a flat earth.
 
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d taylor

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I guess the Biblically uneducated will continue to display their sub-elementary level of hermeneutical ability when literally believing in a flat earth.

Scientist are supposed to be observant. So present a few of your drawings and lets see your powers of observation. Because i am guessing therein lies your problem and why you are having trouble seeing reality.

Because just like this math problem (below) that only exist on paper your science theories only exist on paper or a computer program. Never have seen on actually demonstrated in real life. Simple show to scale how reflecting light of the moon from the sun, works to light up earth at night.

Perfect example of a science statement about Gods creation. It can exist on paper but not in real life. Just like this puzzle.

Three people check into a hotel. The clerk tells them that the bill for their stay is $30, so each person pays the clerk $10. The clerk puts the money in the cash register.

Later that night, the clerk realizes that he made a mistake and should have only charged the three guests $25. He pulls $5 in one dollar bills out of the register and tells the bellhop to return the money to the guests.


On the way to the room, the bellhop realizes that he cannot split the money evenly between the three people. As the guests don't know that they were charged the incorrect amount for their room, the bellhop decides to simply give them $1 each and pocket the extra $2 as a tip. Each guest gets $1 back, so they each paid $9 for their room, totaling $27. The bellhop kept $2, and $27 + $2 = $29.

But the guests originally handed over $30. What happened to the missing dollar?
 
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JacksBratt

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Thats an interesting thing for someone to say who makes multiple claims of certain topics and conclusions being “proven”. Apparently you’re capable of knowing what is Truth since you think so many controversial (conspiracy) topics are actually proven.

And it’s also interesting what you said because YOU ARE part of the general populous. Does this mean you don’t think you can handle the truth?
No, I don't think I would be able to take it all in. I believe that, outside of the things that are tagged by inquiring minds and those that question everything.. that there are vast amounts of dealings, conspiring, back door deals, things left untold, that are true and things told that aren't true... by all of those in places of power.

All periods of civilized rule by any governing body... eventually collapses on itself, due to greed, corruption and arrogance of ultimate knowledge and control.

We would be naive to believe that this is not taking place today. Even considering the hidden events between those allied and those supposedly axis governments... combined with our technological state and driving force of power and greed.
 
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SPF

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Scientist are supposed to be observant. So present a few of your drawings and lets see your powers of observation. Because i am guessing therein lies your problem and why you are having trouble seeing reality.

Because just like this math problem (below) that only exist on paper your science theories only exist on paper or a computer program. Never have seen on actually demonstrated in real life. Simple show to scale how reflecting light of the moon from the sun, works to light up earth at night.

Perfect example of a science statement about Gods creation. It can exist on paper but not in real life. Just like this puzzle.

Three people check into a hotel. The clerk tells them that the bill for their stay is $30, so each person pays the clerk $10. The clerk puts the money in the cash register.

Later that night, the clerk realizes that he made a mistake and should have only charged the three guests $25. He pulls $5 in one dollar bills out of the register and tells the bellhop to return the money to the guests.


On the way to the room, the bellhop realizes that he cannot split the money evenly between the three people. As the guests don't know that they were charged the incorrect amount for their room, the bellhop decides to simply give them $1 each and pocket the extra $2 as a tip. Each guest gets $1 back, so they each paid $9 for their room, totaling $27. The bellhop kept $2, and $27 + $2 = $29.

But the guests originally handed over $30. What happened to the missing dollar?
Yes, my high school philosophy class went over that famous riddle. If you still can’t understand it, this might help you out: Missing dollar riddle - Wikipedia

I can also point you towards some really elementary books on hermeneutics and how to properly interpret Scripture if you would like. But based upon how closed minded you appear to be, I suspect at this point anything (no matter how obvious and full of common sense) that doesn’t line up with your preconceived notions are incapable of getting through to you.

Case in point would be the awesome pictures that YOU provided of the terminator line on the moon, where you demonstrated that the moon reflects the light of the sun by showing how the higher elevated areas still were able to reflect light while the deeper craters were no longer reflecting light.

Thank you again for helping demonstrate how the moon just reflects light!
 
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