The Demise of Evolution

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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Star Trek refers to events that have happened or to places that already exist. By contrast, the bible refers to things ahead of its time, before they happened. The approach is poles apart., the different is huge, beyond comparison.

For example: Paris has been here for centuries. In "future," ST “made” its headquarters in San Francisco, which is already here. In 1976, NASA honors ST by naming the spacecraft “Enterprise” – I remember reading about this in mid 90s when TNG was popular in North America , when I was in Canada. However, ST did not predict Enterprise, so why do you even mentioned that ST even reference itself.

The Bible refers to things ahead of its time, way way before they happened, hundreds and thousands of years ahead. It says the earth is round and suspends upon nothing way before science did. I hear critics who say that say the Bible is being figurative. However, figurative or literal, it has made many correct predictions – and this frequency of correctness DOES MATTER.

What do you want to read before you would say the Bible is specific? It says God sits above circle of earth, clearly implying it is round – but critics try to find technical loophole to say it may mean flat. 2000 years ago, Revelations predict that tanks and helicopters in modern warfare. Apostle John did not have the language to describe armor tanks, so he said “head that like lion that threw fire and sulphur”. He did not have the word helicopter, so he said look like locust that made loud noises. It makes sense to think in his shoes, he was trying to use limited vocabulary to describe modern technologies. Surely we don’t expect him to say “armor tanks” and “helicopters.” Or will critics 'invent' another loophole, that John did not mention “metal birds that zoom fast” -- the fighter jets – to imply the Bible did not say EVERYTHING -- so it is not complete enough?

A circle is a flat, round shape. It i is flat.
And no. None of those descriptions match any sort of modern military vehicle.
 
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roman2819

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A circle is a flat, round shape. It i is flat.
And no. None of those descriptions match any sort of modern military vehicle.

I have read books that say "... People though the earth was flat but later scientists discovered the earth is round.." I have also read that 'satellite photos confirm that the earth is round". What do u think they mean by using the word 'round'?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I have read books that say "... People though the earth was rflat but later scientists discovered the earth is round.." I have also read that 'satellite photos confirm that the earth is round". What do u think they mean by using the word 'round'?

If they used round then you're reading some very bad books, or very simplistic ones.
Describing anything as a circle strictly means that you're describing a two-dimensional object. A FLAT object.
 
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roman2819

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If they used round then you're reading some very bad books, or very simplistic ones.
Describing anything as a circle strictly means that you're describing a two-dimensional object. A FLAT object.

We cannot control how people write. We cannot insist they use the words we want. But in the case of 'round, ' a little thinking, common sense and contextual interpretation will enanle you to figure out easily, if one is not intending to deny the obvious.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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We cannot control how people write. We cannot insist they use the words we want. But in the case of 'round, ' a little thinking, common sense and contextual interpretation will enanle you to figure out easily, if one is not intending to deny the obvious.
Or you could try understanding the context and thought patterns of those who wrote the bible. Of course, that would mean doing away with your revisionist interpretations which I'm sure you are not prepared to contemplate.
 
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roman2819

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Or you could try understanding the context and thought patterns of those who wrote the bible. Of course, that would mean doing away with your revisionist interpretations which I'm sure you are not prepared to contemplate.

Obviously you are refraining from commenting on what round means in the context of 'satellite photos show that the earth is round' because by agreeing that round means sphere, you imply the bible meant the same.

And if you insist that 'satellite photos show that earth is round' means a flat round earth, then you wouldn't look well or good either.
 
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Kylie

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Star Trek refers to events that have happened or to places that already exist. By contrast, the bible refers to things ahead of its time, before they happened. The approach is poles apart., the different is huge, beyond comparison.

For example: Paris has been here for centuries. In "future," ST “made” its headquarters in San Francisco, which is already here. In 1976, NASA honors ST by naming the spacecraft “Enterprise” – I remember reading about this in mid 90s when TNG was popular in North America , when I was in Canada. However, ST did not predict Enterprise, so why do you even mentioned that ST even reference itself.

The Bible refers to things ahead of its time, way way before they happened, hundreds and thousands of years ahead. It says the earth is round and suspends upon nothing way before science did. I hear critics who say that say the Bible is being figurative. However, figurative or literal, it has made many correct predictions – and this frequency of correctness does matter. And besides prophecies, there are also more historical and archaeological evidences that support the bible.

So you think Star Trek claims the events it depicts have already happened? Do you think the first contact with the Vulcans as depicted as taking place in Montana in the year 2063 is an event that has already happened?

When Star Trek said the first moon landing mission would be launched on a Wednesday, it said it in January 1967 (the episode is called "Tomorrow is Yesterday in season 1 if you want to check for yourself). The actual mission being described was almost two and a half years LATER, in July 1969.

And so what if Star Trek didn't predict the space shuttle Enterprise? There are lots of things the Bible didn't predict. But the fact remains that the Enterprise in Star Trek was named as part of a series of ships throughout history named Enterprise, including the space shuttle. Just as the Columbia in Star Trek Enterprise was named for the space shuttle.

And your claims are wrong. The Bile refers to the earth as a disk, not a sphere. And the word suspend does not accurately describe the earth in space, as suspending something requires a support that the suspended object is pulled away from by the gravity of an external object. What is the Earth suspended from? What external object is the Earth dangling towards?
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Obviously you are refraining from commenting on what round means in the context of 'satellite photos show that the earth is round' because by agreeing that round means sphere, you imply the bible meant the same.

And if you insist that 'satellite photos show that earth is round' means a flat round earth, then you wouldn't look well or good either.
I love that you still cannot respond to what I write, but instead respond to whatever you imagine I might have said. It's like your interpretation of the bible - you're not really interested in what the authors actually wrote and meant, you only care about what you think they should have meant.
 
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roman2819

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So you think Star Trek claims the events it depicts have already happened? Do you think the first contact with the Vulcans as depicted as taking place in Montana in the year 2063 is an event that has already happened?

You are strangely showing that you don't have understanding when interpreting obvious stuff.

ST used certain facts like Paris, San Francisco, World war 2, Roman empire figures and some earth historical facts as a small part of its stories so that viewers can relate to them. Other than such little historical facts, every ST stories are not real, such as Montana 2063 First contact is fiction. Anyone with common sende will know what I mean. But you try to twist it literally by saying not every event has happened as if I said that. And I say ST refer to facts and events that has happened, I didn't say how how many, and I didn't say all events have happened - so now, analyze that.

Your various postings show that you like to indulge in splitting hair over words. Then look at this very common sentence: “Men are taller than women.” Is this true or factual or literal? If yes, is every man taller than every women? Try to split hair here.

When Star Trek said the first moon landing mission would be launched on a Wednesday, it said it in January 1967 (the episode is called "Tomorrow is Yesterday in season 1 if you want to check for yourself). The actual mission being described was almost two and a half years LATER, in July 1969.

NASA space program was already in progress in 1967 and back then, they knew it was only a matter of time when moon landing would happen. ST just acted on this simple fact, that is all. Thats what imaginative and creative people in movie industry do. Just like I can safely predict the sun will rise in the next two years.

And so what if Star Trek didn't predict the space shuttle Enterprise?

It blows a big hole in your argument.

And your claims are wrong. The Bile refers to the earth as a disk, not a sphere. And the word suspend does not accurately describe the earth in space, as suspending something requires a support that the suspended object is pulled away from by the gravity of an external object. What is the Earth suspended from? What external object is the Earth dangling towards?

Do you not know.... what is the meaning of Nothing?

You like to analyze literally . So let me ask you to comment on this simple sentence:

“Men are taller than women.”

Is above sentence literal or true or factual? If yes, is every man taller than women? If not, what is it saying ... Go figure.
 
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Speedwell

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Obviously you are refraining from commenting on what round means in the context of 'satellite photos show that the earth is round' because by agreeing that round means sphere, you imply the bible meant the same.
Bad analogy, because the scope of meaning of "round" in English is not the same as the scope of meaning of "chuwg" in biblical Hebrew.

And if you insist that 'satellite photos show that earth is round' means a flat round earth, then you wouldn't look well or good either.
You are obviously missing the point. None of us are insisting that Isaiah 40:22 is "teaching" a flat Earth. What we are trying to get across to you is that the verse does no better a job of teaching a spherical Earth than it does a flat circular Earth. If you argue that Isaiah 40:22 can only be describing a spherical Earth then an equally bootless argument can be made that it is describing a flat circular Earth--which even so you appear to have no answer for.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Bad analogy, because the scope of meaning of "round" in English is not the same as the scope of meaning of "chuwg" in biblical Hebrew.

You are obviously missing the point. None of us are insisting that Isaiah 40:22 is "teaching" a flat Earth. What we are trying to get across to you is that the verse does no better a job of teaching a spherical Earth than it does a flat circular Earth. If you argue that Isaiah 40:22 can only be describing a spherical Earth then an equally bootless argument can be made that it is describing a flat circular Earth--which even so you appear to have no answer for.
Actually hebrew "chuwg" is used to describe a circle as drawn by a compass. If anything, it would tend towards an interpretation of a flat earth, but I don't see any particuliar need to do that. Imagine standing in a wide, open space and looking round (much as a hebrew shepherd would have done). What would you see if you spun 360°? A circular earth. That was their world. Why some modern christians insist on using their modern interpretation is beyond me. Why can't they just accept the bible for what it is and what it teaches? Why this overwhelming need to shoehorn in meanings and information that the authors really weren't concerned about?
 
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roman2819

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Bad analogy, because the scope of meaning of "round" in English is not the same as the scope of meaning of "chuwg" in biblical Hebrew.

You are obviously missing the point. None of us are insisting that Isaiah 40:22 is "teaching" a flat Earth. What we are trying to get across to you is that the verse does no better a job of teaching a spherical Earth than it does a flat circular Earth. If you argue that Isaiah 40:22 can only be describing a spherical Earth then an equally bootless argument can be made that it is describing a flat circular Earth--which even so you appear to have no answer for.

While you claim that nobody is insisting the earth is flat round.... Well, @Bungle_Bear just did exactly that. He is not the only one in this thread.

And how do you read "He suspends the earth upon nothing"?
 
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Jimmy D

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We cannot control how people write. We cannot insist they use the words we want. But in the case of 'round, ' a little thinking, common sense and contextual interpretation will enanle you to figure out easily, if one is not intending to deny the obvious.

Speaking of context, a few lines on the passage mentions the "ends of the Earth" doesn't it? How does that square with your interpretation?
 
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Speedwell

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While you claim that nobody is insisting the earth is flat round.... Well, @Bungle_Bear just did exactly that. He is not the only one in this thread.

And how do you read "He suspends the earth upon nothing"?
Your profile shows you to live in Singapore. Is English not your first language? That would explain a lot.
 
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Kylie

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You are strangely showing that you don't have understanding when interpreting obvious stuff.

ST used certain facts like Paris, San Francisco, World war 2, Roman empire figures and some earth historical facts as a small part of its stories so that viewers can relate to them. Other than such little historical facts, every ST stories are not real, such as Montana 2063 First contact is fiction. Anyone with common sende will know what I mean. But you try to twist it literally by saying not every event has happened as if I said that. And I say ST refer to facts and events that has happened, I didn't say how how many, and I didn't say all events have happened - so now, analyze that.

Your various postings show that you like to indulge in splitting hair over words. Then look at this very common sentence: “Men are taller than women.” Is this true or factual or literal? If yes, is every man taller than every women? Try to split hair here.



NASA space program was already in progress in 1967 and back then, they knew it was only a matter of time when moon landing would happen. ST just acted on this simple fact, that is all. Thats what imaginative and creative people in movie industry do. Just like I can safely predict the sun will rise in the next two years.



It blows a big hole in your argument.



Do you not know.... what is the meaning of Nothing?

You like to analyze literally . So let me ask you to comment on this simple sentence:

“Men are taller than women.”

Is above sentence literal or true or factual? If yes, is every man taller than women? If not, what is it saying ... Go figure.

So you are saying that prophecies don't count if they are just talking about stuff that was already known to people at the time predictions were made, or logical projections from what was known at the time, or things that are vague enough to be flexibly interpreted?

GASP!
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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We cannot control how people write. We cannot insist they use the words we want. But in the case of 'round, ' a little thinking, common sense and contextual interpretation will enanle you to figure out easily, if one is not intending to deny the obvious.

Except when a very specific word is used to describe something, then the meaning is fixed. A circle is a two-dimensional, flat shape. That cannot be changed or insisted upon to be different.
Round can mean things other than a sphere or ball. An egg is round. A rugby ball is round.
A circle is flat.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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While you claim that nobody is insisting the earth is flat round.... Well, @Bungle_Bear just did exactly that. He is not the only one in this thread.

And how do you read "He suspends the earth upon nothing"?
I'm going to report you if you continue lying about what I say. Such persistent dishonesty really doesn't make you look good. Perhaps, for a change, you'd care to address what I actually say in one of my posts? Still waiting on your evidence re dating of Genesis.....
 
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roman2819

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Speaking of context, a few lines on the passage mentions the "ends of the Earth" doesn't it? How does that square with your interpretation?

Regarding your question, how should we read 'ends of the earth ", my answer is consider his very common sentence:

Men are taller than women.

Are these words literal, or factual or true or figurative ? Consider how we use it and it can enlighten you quite a bit. It is definitely relevant for interpreting Scriptures too.

I an not kidding. You can only understand well if you figure it out yourself. I can only show the way. I will also ask others who say the bible is literally wrong or figuratively vague to do the same.
 
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roman2819

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Your profile shows you to live in Singapore. Is English not your first language? That would explain a lot.

Are you trying to avoid the question "He suspends the earth upon nothing"?

Although English is first language, Singapore is multicultural, multi religions and multi lingual. Such background help me to interpret Scripture, really. In America n Europe, people read and interpret Bible in a factual and literal manner. When Bible says God will guide us, they think He should literally tell them what plan to make. But in truth, the Scriptures refer to guidance in a macro or general way. This is how the mid-East /Eastern orthodox religions and people think, including Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam etc. They don't use words so factually . As well, people in the west over-analyze and think of endless possible interpretations - - this is being liberal. In Asia, Christians do not engage in liberal interpretations much, our mid/Eastern roots over 4000 years help us to know that one cannot use human words and logic to explain divine things.
 
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Shemjaza

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Are you trying to avoid the question "He suspends the earth upon nothing"?
It's certainly poetic and I suppose it could be seen as more correct then most cosmologies... it doesn't help if other aspects are blatantly wrong.

Genetics, evolutionary history, the order of events in the formation of the planet, the description of moon as a "light", the lack of acknowledgement of the sun as being alike with the stars.

All in all, one literal interpretation being accurate in a sea of mistakes looks more like coincidence than evidence of providence.
 
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