Trump shuts barn door after horses have left: Europe travel ban

Silmarien

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Yep, Cuomo has got those Jews in a well-guarded ghetto, uh, I mean, quarantined.

Yeah, I'm really worried about an uptick in antisemitism because of this, especially since it's been spreading to other Jewish communities in the area through catering events. (We've got a couple of cases in my county that are connected to New Rochelle.)

Religious communities are at really high risk, though. I've been watching the situation spiral out of control in Spain, since I had a trip planned for April, and concerns about an Evangelical community in Madrid that nobody was quick enough to quarantine turned into 1000 cases within two weeks.
 
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JCFantasy23

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Religious communities are at really high risk, though. I've been watching the situation spiral out of control in Spain, since I had a trip planned for April, and concerns about an Evangelical community in Madrid that nobody was quick enough to quarantine turned into 1000 cases within two weeks.

An interesting and sad observation - but completely true. Churches and religious communities generally sit pretty close together, have a lot of the elderly in the pews, and there is a chance of more communal spreading.
 
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Silmarien

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An interesting and sad observation - but completely true. Churches and religious communities generally sit pretty close together, have a lot of the elderly in the pews, and there is a chance of more communal spreading.

What was interesting to me about the situation in Madrid is that it was described as an Evangelical community. Statistically that's unlikely, since Protestantism is very rare in Spain, but in my limited experience it's also significantly higher intensity than Spanish Catholicism--people are less likely to just spend 45 minutes in church once a week and then just run for the doors. (The Anglican church I was visiting in Seville was always two hours, and there was a Ukrainian refugee community associated with it which would then go have picnics for the next couple hours. A couple of people from another Evangelical church showed up the one time I joined them.)
 
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TLK Valentine

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Aren't you leaving out though the plan to pay people for work days off through this time?

"Plans" are all well and nice... call me when they do.
 
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solid_core

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Restricting the international movement of people is a logical step. Many EU countries are now limiting border crossings and control it. Many EU countries also do not allow people from Italy or China to travel to them.

On the other hand, why just 26 EU countries? Why not also UK, Ireland, Australia, Brasil, whole Africa etc? Coronavirus from those countries does not count? Or...?
 
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wing2000

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I don't buy the horses have left the barn, (useless) argument. If you're seriously trying to reduce the enlargement of the problem why wouldn't it be wise to cut down the numbers of new potentials adding to it?

I could support an argument for shutting down certain travel lanes -- based on the actual risk area - i,e, "Type A" countries and areas. As of March 12th

Type A
China
Italy
Iran
Grand-Est area of France

Type B
S. Korea
Hong Kong
Singapore
Japan
Heinsberg district of Germany
Madrid, Spain

....but alas, any such plan assumes constructive cooperation between the President and his counterparts in other countries.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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What? There's no travel ban between the UK and Europe, the fantasy in your head notwithstanding.

No, but neither is the UK signatory to a treaty prohibiting border checks with other European countries.

You understand all I have to do as a European to get into the US is fly via Heathrow, right? Independent of the fact the UK has the same rate of infection as Europe.

The information I have suggests that the UK's infection rate is well below most Schengen countries...

Coronavirus Update (Live)

Trump could have...

- Addressed the shortage of tests

"Additionally, last week, I signed into law an $8.3 billion funding bill to help C.D.C. and other government agencies fight the virus and support vaccines, treatments and distribution of medical supplies. Testing and testing capabilities are expanding rapidly, day by day. We are moving very quickly."

- Created a national set of guidelines for closures of schools, events, and other gatherings

A one-size-fits-all set of guide of guidelines wouldn't have been appropriate, because status of the epidemic varies widely in different parts of the country.

- Provided any sort of recent projections on the infection rate
- Provided any sort of timeline on vaccines/treatments
- Provided any sort of timeline on how long daily changes will last (you know... LEADING?!)

Perhaps we lack the information to provide those, especially considering how many unknown factors there still are. Not to mention that if the President did provide those and they weren't 100% accurate, you'd call him incompetent for it.

You are operating from a false premise. You are pretending as if travel bans are the best way to stop the spread of disease as opposed to widespread testing, containment of infected, and having a staff that was out in front of this beforehand.

Travel bans are a means of containing the infected, in fact one of the most important ways.

The main reason why the US has been so behind is that it disband and/or underfunded the very people that would make the US response to this. The apologism for mediocrity is a sad state of affairs and the current president's followers.

The US hasn't been behind. On the contrary, the epidemic has not his the US as hard as it has most of the rest of the industrialized world, and that was in large part due to the ban on travel from China. This is why it was necessary to extend the travel ban to most European countries. As the President pointed out:

"Our team is the best anywhere in the world. At the very start of the outbreak, we instituted sweeping travel restrictions on China and put in place the first federally mandated quarantine in over 50 years. We declared a public health emergency and issued the highest level of travel warning on other countries as the virus spread its horrible infection.

And taking early intense action, we have seen dramatically fewer cases of the virus in the United States than are now present in Europe.

The European Union failed to take the same precautions and restrict travel from China and other hot spots. As a result, a large number of new clusters in the United States were seeded by travelers from Europe."


The UK has a greater number of infected people than a half dozen European countries. In health terms, in epidemiological terms, it makes absolutely no sense.

That's a small minority of European countries, and are you including non-Schengen countries?

Not only that, I understand that South Korea is not included in Trump’s travel bans.

You know, the country with thousands of known infections...!!

"At the same time, we are monitoring the situation in China and in South Korea."

People have been flying from Milan into the UK and experiencing absolutely no checks or testing. The UK government response to the crisis is basically non-existent which is why we're about 1-2 weeks away from a national meltdown when our already over-strained NHS is faced with a massive surge in intake.

Then perhaps the UK's infection rate will catch up with the rest of Western Europe and the travel ban will be extended to the UK.

He didn't mentioned the problem of testing in the US. South Korea tests 10,000 a day. The US hasn't even tested 10,000 people yet. And both countries had their first cases about the same time.
It is a pathetic response from the US.

Which country has a higher infection rate, the US or Korea? That's already been addressed on this thread hasn't it? The contradictory nature of all this criticism of the administration is showing itself. Because it isn't really about the virus at all, it's about trying to score political points against the President for the November election, and exploiting whatever can be exploited to do so.
 
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evoeth

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Testing and testing capabilities are expanding rapidly, day by day. We are moving very quickly."
By what definition of "quickly?"

Again, my father-in-law is in bed with pneumonia in the SF Bay Area this minute and can't get tested. He's in his mid 70s and at high risk and we just don't know right now.

Meanwhile, Tom Hanks gets screened because he visited a GP with cold symptoms. In Australia.

A one-size-fits-all set of guide of guidelines wouldn't have been appropriate, because status of the epidemic varies widely in different parts of the country.
Not for long! Do you understand that with business as usual this will be everywhere and the only difference will be a matter of a few weeks? Some areas will be a few weeks behind the others. That is, without some sort of regional travel restrictions right now.

Travel bans are a means of containing the infected, in fact one of the most important ways.
So why are people still traveling between high-infection rate areas within the US and low-infection rate areas?
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Not for long! Do you understand that with business as usual this will be everywhere and the only difference will be a matter of a few weeks? Some areas will be a few weeks behind the others. That is, without some sort of regional travel restrictions right now.

Tell you what, I'll check back in a few weeks, we'll see who's right...
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Is this yet another anti-President Trump pretext?

(I'm not even in the US...)
You know, it’s not really about him anymore. The entire US public is at risk of contracting a deadly disease we don’t yet know how to deal with, in part because of his inaction.

I’m tired of this persecution complex people seem to have where we’re all supposed to feel sorry for the president having a tough job. I’m glad it seems like he’s finally waking up from his delusion that everything is fine and he’s doing a fantastic job. Everything is not fine, he’s doing a terrible job and I hope he’s elected out of office this November.
 
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evoeth

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Tell you what, I'll check back in a few weeks, we'll see who's right...
OK. There are 1000 official cases in the whole country right now. In four weeks, I am willing to state that at least 25 states will have 1000 official cases. Or... if the administration still has its head up its butt with respect to testing, 1000 presumptive positive cases.
 
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DaisyDay

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Is money absolutely everything? What if such measures helped one of their loved ones or even they themselves from getting the virus?
And what if one or several of their loved ones get the virus anyway but they've lost their healthcare coverage after getting laid off from the airline industry?
 
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Silmarien

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You know, it’s not really about him anymore. The entire US public is at risk of contracting a deadly disease we don’t yet know how to deal with, in part because of his inaction.

I’m tired of this persecution complex people seem to have where we’re all supposed to feel sorry for the president having a tough job. I’m glad it seems like he’s finally waking up from his delusion that everything is fine and he’s doing a fantastic job. Everything is not fine, he’s doing a terrible job and I hope he’s elected out of office this November.

I'm guessing that Trump supporters complaining about "the left" being unreasonable for wanting the same testing capacity that every competent country in the world has do not live in Washington, California, or the New York area.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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I'm guessing that Trump supporters complaining about "the left" being unreasonable for wanting the same testing capacity that every competent country in the world has do not live in Washington, California, or the New York area.
Or Texas, Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina, or any other state that has confirmed cases.
Give it time. It’ll soon be in every state.
 
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Silmarien

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Or Texas, Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina, or any other state that has confirmed cases.

Give it time. It’ll soon be in every state.

There's a difference between confirmed cases and confirmed sustained community spread outbreaks, though. There are probably more genuine outbreaks than we know about, but some areas are still going to be more strongly hit, and so far they seem to be Washington, California, and New York. Less to worry about if you're not in a hot zone.
 
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Veritas

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And yet Trump has done better than his European counterparts who are also just now implementing containment measures in spite of having a much higher rate of cases and deaths. Put it in perspective.
 
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