I wonder about the literalism of the first five books of the OT

OldWiseGuy

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I am not opposed to people guessing about Biblical events they have not seen or recorded -- but whether that the Bible records them as they literally occurred.

Biblical events as recorded are the framework in which we learn spiritual lessons, as well as the history that God wants us to understand. For example, the creation of Eve reveals the history and purpose of the creation of Lucifer. Without that knowledge we aren't able to understand the world as it was or is. Take away the framework and the whole thing collapses. :swoon:
 
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BobRyan

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Biblical events as recorded are the framework in which we learn spiritual lessons, as well as the history that God wants us to understand. For example, the creation of Eve reveals the history and purpose of the creation of Lucifer

What history and purpose for Lucifer's creation is stated in the book of Genesis?
 
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BobRyan

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I am not opposed to people guessing about Biblical events they have not seen or recorded -- but whether that the Bible records them as they literally occurred.

And since the Bible is inspired by God - and God is accurate in his communication... we can believe it.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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What history and purpose for Lucifer's creation is stated in the book of Genesis?

The story is revealed, not stated directly.

The theme of suitable companion. None was found among the animals for Adam, so God created Eve. This mirrors the creation of the angels. There was none especially suited among them as a companion for God, so Lucifer was created; his special angel. Lucifer and Eve shared some important characteristics as well.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And since the Bible is inspired by God - and God is accurate in his communication... we can believe it.
For comparison, (and I think as noted for years in previous posts),

why do most people reject God's communication, and not believe Him ?
 
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BobRyan

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That is man's false reasoning to apply it literally.

Yeah we did that with the virgin birth, the incarnation, the bodily resurrection of Christ the miracles of Christ, the 7 day creation week ... even though "the bible is not a biology or physics text book".
 
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BobRyan

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For comparison, (and I think as noted for years in previous posts),

why do most people reject God's communication, and not believe Him ?

A priori agenda/bias usually.

the Jews were biased against a Messiah that was not totally about rescue-from-Roman-occupation and consequently bent every teaching the Bible about the Messiah to that one agenda. (No matter how much bend-wrench-twist of the text was required to get the desired outcome)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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A priori agenda/bias usually.

the Jews were biased against a Messiah that was not totally about rescue-from-Roman-occupation and consequently bent every teaching the Bible about the Messiah to that one agenda. (No matter how much bend-wrench-twist of the text was required to get the desired outcome)
And, who do most gentiles serve ? (as written in The Apocalypse; as when 1/3 of mankind dies - who is left - who do they serve and refuse to stop serving ? )
 
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Oseas

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Biblical events as recorded are the framework in which we learn spiritual lessons, as well as the history that God wants us to understand. For example, the creation of Eve reveals the history and purpose of the creation of Lucifer. Without that knowledge we aren't able to understand the world as it was or is. Take away the framework and the whole thing collapses. :swoon:

Lucifer(?) was a Cherub and was the ruler of God's Garden, the Eden, but when he did think to be like the Most High God, and to sit himself in the place of God as is showed in Isaiah 14:v. 13-15 and 2Thessalonians 2:v.4, then God reduced him to ashes-Ezekiel 28:v.13-18, now he is a former Cherub, and father of generations that were born of him or from his seed like Cain-1John 3:v.12.

Who was not born of the Devil? Only and only JESUS.

JESUS was/is a Jew, and He said to the Jews: John 8:v.44-45 -
44 - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

That is why it is necessary to be born again, to be born of God. John 3: v. 5-7:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


John 1:v.11-14
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
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BobRyan

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Lucifer(?) was a Cherub and was the ruler of God's Garden, the Eden, but when he did think to be like the Most High God, and to sit himself in the place of God as is showed in Isaiah 14:v. 13-15 and 2Thessalonians 2:v.4, then God reduced him to ashes-Ezekiel 28:v.13-18

Is 9 - "6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

God speaks about the future as if it is the past when it comes to certain things - like the birth of Christ and turning Satan to ashes in the Lake of Fire.
 
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Oseas

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Is 9 - "6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

God speaks about the future as if it is the past when it comes to certain things - like the birth of Christ and turning Satan to ashes in the Lake of Fire.

Isaiah 11:1-5 and so on:

1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; -THESE ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD-*

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.


5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

* Revelation 5:v.6

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the (24) elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.*

- Spirit of the Lord
- Spirit of wisdom
- Spirit of understanding
- Spirit of counsel
- Spirit of might
- Spirit of knowledge
- Spirit of fear of the Lord

Aleluiaaa!!!
 
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Jipsah

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And since the Bible is inspired by God - and God is accurate in his communication... we can believe it.
23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.

Except when it's "just a metaphor", right?
 
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BobRyan

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23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.

Except when it's "just a metaphor", right?

Metaphor already demonstrated, illustrated and explained.

John 6 - a good example of a chapter where "nobody bites Christ"
a good example of a chapter where nobody looks up in the air and sees bread floating down

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”


... 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”

... 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

Indeed the "WORD" became flesh and dwelt among us - the symbol of bread for the Word.

And again in Matthew 16 -- another chapter where nobody bites Christ.
11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
 
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Jipsah

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Metaphor already demonstrated, illustrated and explained
Of course. It's all literal, except to those with a - what was it? - a priori agenda. Terrific illustration. Can't let the Words of God Incarnate Himself damage a dearly help doctrine, now can we?
 
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BobRyan

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Metaphor already demonstrated, illustrated and explained.

John 6 - a good example of a chapter where "nobody bites Christ"
a good example of a chapter where nobody looks up in the air and sees bread floating down

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”


... 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”

... 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

Indeed the "WORD" became flesh and dwelt among us - the symbol of bread for the Word.

And again in Matthew 16 -- another chapter where nobody bites Christ.
11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.



Of course. It's all literal, except

Yep "except" when the Bible gives details that we do not ignore - and those details point out the symbolism or obvious symbols are in use like the "dragon in heaven" in Rev 12.

So then .. just stating the obvious.
 
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Oseas

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26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Matt.26:v.29:
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that Day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.-


JESUS said these words two Days ago or two thousand years ago, therefore, the most important is to discern by the Spirit of Christ (if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his) that this glorious Day has arrived. In fact this is a question of discernment. He said to the Jews: John 2:v.19-21:
19 - Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 - Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 - But he spake of the temple of his body. - the Church -


We have already entered in the third Day, more precisely in the FIRST CENTURY of the third millennium AD, so it is the time to awake and stand up and be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints - Revelation 19:v.8 - Aleluiaaaa! - and go out to meet the bridegroom. Behold, the bridegroom comes; go ye out to meet him. Aleluiaaaa!

But wait !!! Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
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Oseas

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Luke 21:v.25-28 & 31-36

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Are you ready? Are you ready? If not, try to be
 
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