Dorothy Mae
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- May 26, 2018
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You believe MORE than that looking at your long posts.I am a Christian because I follow Christ. I believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent!
Was He talking to God who needs to manipulate men to do this?Joshua issues a series of commands:
- "Now therefore fear the LORD"
- "and serve him in sincerity and in truth"
- "and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt"
- "and serve ye the LORD"
(Joshua 24:14)
There is no mention of "choice" nor "free will" towards God in Joshua 24:14; furthermore, a command does not convey ability.
Do you see that you cannot admit that if God says “choose” to a man, it assumes that this man CAN choose?
For you, “choose” doesn’t mean make a choice. I have no idea what you think it means instead.
Wrong. Judas was there when Jesus said one of you will betray me.Next, Joshua expresses a conditional logic statement in Joshua 24:15, and a conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct.
IF condition THEN predicate
Stated in a more focused fashion.
IF you_do_this THEN that_will_happen
Thus, the conditional expresses an action in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).
A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.
Wrong on both counts, Dorothy Mae, plus another count of error against you is that Judas left the supper room as recorded in John 13:30 (so you do not take the Bible as a whole as you previously claimed).Correct. It assumes it is already there.
Cause God and man know already we have free choice in the matter.Now, the conditional logic statement Joshua expressed was "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD" which contains no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God (Joshua 24:15). The conditional logic statement Joshua expressed states the condition/nature of the person.
They all know it’s in man.In the predicate Joshua provides only false gods for those people whose nature is against the LORD, for Joshua said "choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell" (Joshua 24:15).
Finaly, Joshua states "but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD", and there is no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God (Joshua 24:15).
God never told them to breathe cause they have no choice. He did tell them other matters where the choice is free.
“Choose” makes no sense and is actually cruel if a man cannot.There is no choice towards God mentioned.
What Bible are you reading? The Calvinist one?As for the next link I provided, here you go Dorothy Mae.
"It is disagreeable in my sight to believe the LORD Who declares God chooses man not man chooses God unto salvation and sanctification" (John 15:16-19, "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD" [Joshua 24:15]) says the self-willed person (2 Peter 2:9-10), so that leaves only false gods for the choosing by the self willed person (John 15:16-19, "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living" [Joshua 24:15]), Lord Jesus declares that His House serves the LORD (Matthew 21:13 and John 10:27-30, "as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" [Joshua 24:15]). Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19); therefore, all the "choosing" is God's alone with respect to the saving grace upon man!
That’s some fancy footwork. But it won’t work. Neither Paul nor Peter not John told them that they were chosen for Heaven and had no choice in the matter. Takes editing the Bible to get that.Cornelius is of crucial import to this topic for among the places that we find fulfillment of the Word of God's promise of the Holy Spirit is when Gentiles at Cornelius' place were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44).
At a time after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Peter recounted to the apostles and brethren about the Gentiles Cornelius with his relatives and his close friends, and the account Peter shared of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit with being saved illuminated that not just Jews would be saved but also Gentiles would be saved (Acts 11:1-18).
At that time, Peter said to the apostles and brethren "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit'" (Acts 11:16).
Prior to the time of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Lord Jesus said "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5) to the apostles whom Jesus gathered togather (Acts 1:4) which included Peter, and Jesus says "you" right here - with the apostles present right there, Jesus says "you".
Later after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Peter remembered Lord Jesus saying "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" and there is the word "you" (Acts 11:16) which Peter tied to the Gentiles Cornelius with all his household (Acts 11:14); furthermore, Peter tied when Lord Jesus says "you" to all believers in all time (Acts 11:17)!
Since the Apostle Peter includes all believers in all time when Lord Jesus says "you" as recorded in Scripture, then this results in the Word of God, Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) binding all believers in all time.
I know you have a deep emotional stake in God must have chosen you and you cannot choose anything yourself on this. I know why too.A fundamental Christian teaching must explicitly be stated which is man's default nature being carnal and unrighteous.
Our merciful and loving God is Benefactor, and we believers are beneficiaries
God is mercifully loving to save any of the rebellious persons, we beneficiaries
FOR the first nature of all men is enmity against God
MOREOVER, that first nature, the default nature, the enemy against God nature is sometimes referred to as the sin nature
AND that is just like the first man, Adam, from the earth, earthy (1 Corinthians 15:47)
FOR through Adam sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men (Romans 5:12)
AND respecting the first nature all people have no choice in the matter, all people enter life with the sin nature (Colossians 1:13-14, Colossians 1:21-22)
YET people in the first nature are incapable of pleasing God (Romans 8:8)
AND people of the sin nature cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14)
SO God's regeneration of men in the renewing by the Holy Spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:5)
AND by the act of God, the old things passed away while the new creature has come (2 Corinthians 5:17)
AND the "old things", the first and default nature, is carnal/darkness/wicked/evil/dead/natural - in/by/of/for man
BUT the "new things", the God imparted nature, is Spirit/Light/righteous/good/life/eternal - in/by/of/for Christ
SO the "new creature" is made holy by the Holy God named Jesus Christ
AND the "new creature" is in Christ, and only the "new creature", we born again by God, are in Christ
AND in Christ all will be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)
God's merciful and loving actions as Benefactor are beautiful
FOR the Son of God established the Testament (Hebrews 9:16, Luke 22:20)
THUS Jesus the Lord proved His position of Benefactor in the Testament (John 12:31-33)
Our gracious Benefactor produces divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
Our gracious Benefactor produces beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God
Our gracious Benefactor produces beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is by/of/through God
Our gracious Benefactor produces beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is by/of/through God
We beneficiaries are blessed receivers from the amazingly awesome Benefactor
THE BENEFACTOR ESTABLISHES A DEEPLY LOVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BENEFICIARY. PRAISE BE TO THE LIVING GOD!
There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus
BECAUSE He said "You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
AND Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus
AND Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)
AND All these words of Jesus are at the same supper
SO all glory is God's
AND with man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)
AND all glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!
I didn't say it did, Dorothy Mae. I do say "daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they blaspheme Glory" with the Apostle Peter for such people claim to choose Jesus in daring oppostion to the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
The LORD says "I will not give My glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8).
The LORD commands "you shall not steal" (Exodus 20:15).
You are guilty of trying to steal God's glory.
The LORD commands "You shall have no other gods before Me"
You are guilty of putting your unscriptural choice before God.
Jesus is the King of Glory, and you daring self will you claim to choose Jesus, you claim to do the very opposite of that which King Jesus says you cannot do and the Apostle Peter says the "you" spoken ot the disciples applies to all believers in all time.
And, you are excluded from the "you" in John 15:15 since you claim to be excluded from the "you" in John 15:16.
I made no false accusation. I cite the Word of God.
I say a person is a friend of Jesus by the Power of God, such as "I have called you friends" (John 15:15). You say you choose to be Jesus friend despite the next thing Jesus says after talking about "friends" is "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16). According to you by extension neither "you" applies to you, so you are no friend of Jesus.
Dorothy Mae, you are a self willed person (2 Peter 2:9-10) who daringly claims to choose Jesus the King of Glory in spite of His word "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) and "you did not coose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
I have made no wrong accusation.
You arrogantly assert God's unshared exclusive good glory in man's salvation (John 15:16, Isaiah 42:8) as "montrous evil" (your words about God); moreover, you pridefully claim to choose Jesus in direct opposition to His words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). Isaiah wrote woe to you who "call evil good, and good evil" (Isaiah 5:20).
I’ve never met a “calvinist theology embracing” believer (like you) who didn’t love their salvation and didn’t fight to the tooth to defend its eternal security regardless of how they behave. The fruit is evident in how they treat those who disagree with them. It is a very consistent test.
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