Dating is a sin- just be friends till your married, no need to complicate...

Archivist

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I know your tactics because I have debated you enough to know you are just trying to twist what I am saying.

I am not twisting anything. I am going by your words.

And there is proof right here in a previous statement I made just a few posts ago, so I will posts it:

So basically you don't own their body, but you have authority over it. If you want sex, they are supposed to give it willingly, if they typically don't like sex or loathe the idea of the marriage bed with their spouse, they probably should never have gotten married, because when you do, you literally have no more authority over your body as this verse says....

1 Corinthians 7:5-6
The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

does that mean that a man should ask for sex every night? Well the Bible also says to "dwell with the wife according to wisdom" "and to love her as Christ loved the church."

if she has a headache, or pains or simply is not in the mood then they honor that. But if she is like that for six months straight, that is an issue.

but many people don't know about that verse, and so I wanted to post it.

Yes, I am aware of 1 Corinthians 7:5-6.
Again, as I said before, authority must be exercised in a virtuous, Christlike way. Would Jesus have demanded something if the person He was asking didn't want to give it? I don't think so. A soldier is told that he must obey his commanding officer, but he isn't required to do so if the officer issues an immoral command. So the wife refuses to have sex for six months. Perhaps she is dealing with dyspareunia. Would a husband demand sex because he has authority over her body? If he is behaving in a Christlike manner of course he wouldn't issue such a demand. Further, what you quoted also gives the wife authority over her husband’s bidy. That means she has the authority to say that he shouldn’t use his body for sex.

Still waiting for proof, as opposed to the opinion that you have been providing, that dating is a sin.
 
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Strong in Him

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It doesn't help at all.
I know what it says, but my husband does not have authority/power over my body. In what sense do you think that he might?
He has no power to stop me from getting ill or needing surgery.
He does not have the authority to stop me from getting a haircut, pierced ears, a tattoo or even plastic surgery should I want/need it.
He certainly does not have the authority, or right, to force sex upon me at every opportunity.

In Paul's day it was a pretty male dominated society. No one would have been surprised at a man having power over his wife. What, I think, would have been shocking was for Paul to have insisted that a woman had equal power over her husband's body. In other words, you are equal in the marriage relationship; if you feel you have power over your wife, she has power over you too. That alters things a bit; it means the husband no longer has the right to treat his wife like an object.
 
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renniks

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Churches don't talk about dating because the dating scene has casualties. The same way churches don't address inappropriate content use.
Maybe your church doesn't. That doesn't mean no church addresses these issues. I assure you some youth pastors do deal with the tough issues.
 
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createdtoworship

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It doesn't help at all.
I know what it says, but my husband does not have authority/power over my body. In what sense do you think that he might?
He has no power to stop me from getting ill or needing surgery.
He does not have the authority to stop me from getting a haircut, pierced ears, a tattoo or even plastic surgery should I want/need it.
He certainly does not have the authority, or right, to force sex upon me at every opportunity.

In Paul's day it was a pretty male dominated society. No one would have been surprised at a man having power over his wife. What, I think, would have been shocking was for Paul to have insisted that a woman had equal power over her husband's body. In other words, you are equal in the marriage relationship; if you feel you have power over your wife, she has power over you too. That alters things a bit; it means the husband no longer has the right to treat his wife like an object.
I suggest buying a good commentary. I am disapointed that you do not believe the scripture as it reads. However maybe buying a commentary will help you understand it better. I can post dozens later when I have time. And they all agree with me. I believe I sufficiently addressed everything related to the verse here:

Dating is a sin- just be friends till your married, no need to complicate...
 
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createdtoworship

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Maybe your church doesn't. That doesn't mean no church addresses these issues. I assure you some youth pastors do deal with the tough issues.
I follow a lot of young people on twitter dozens of college age from all over the country, and yes it is a consensus that churches don't deal with either dating issues or inappropriate contentography issues (in a way that is sufficient). They are hard issues to cover I agree but that does not mean we should not deal with it. In fact I have found two sources online that deal with it and I have posted them repeatedly, and they agree with me that the current definition of dating does not work, that people should not be physical before marriage and that more churches need to deal with the issue.

here are some resources:

start about 20 minutes into it
Dating: HOW pt. 1
 
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Isilwen

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I follow a lot of young people on twitter dozens of college age from all over the country, and yes it is a consensus that churches don't deal with either dating issues or inappropriate contentography issues (in a way that is sufficient). They are hard issues to cover I agree but that does not mean we should not deal with it. In fact I have found two sources online that deal with it and I have posted them repeatedly, and they agree with me that the current definition of dating does not work, that people should not be physical before marriage and that more churches need to deal with the issue.

here are some resources:

start about 20 minutes into it
Dating: HOW pt. 1

So, why don't you on those couple people that agree with you and start your own church where like minded people can gather and you can have your own set of rules which aren't in the Bible.
 
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Sketcher

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I will adress the rest of your post later but for now I wish to study fornication in the Bible, which can mean sex, or even homosexuality, but in general it means "sexual sin, or sexual impurities.

1 corinthians 6:13, Romans 1:29, 1 Corinthians 5:1, mention it as "sexual impurity."

and in these verses it's listed in addition to adultery as if it is something separate from adultery:
Matthew 15:19, Mark 7:21,

here is a great commentary on it:


fornication in KJV is sometimes translated "sexual impurity" In the New King James, and that is the greek word inappropriate contenteia:

"
The term sexually immoral is the ancient Greek word inappropriate contenteia; it broadly refers to all types of sexual activity outside of marriage (including homosexuality).

i. Originally, inappropriate contenteia just referred to going to prostitutes; but before New Testament times, the Jewish community used the word to refer to any kind of extramarital sex, including homosexuality. This is its sense in the New Testament.

ii. Commentators on the word inappropriate contenteia: "the Scripture by this word comprehends all species of unlawful mixtures." (Poole) "must be understood in its utmost latitude of meaning, as implying all kinds of impurity." (Clarke)

iii. inappropriate contenteia so often appears first in New Testament "sin lists" but not because the first Christians had a lot of "hang ups" about sex. Instead, it is because the area of sex was one of the most dramatic places where the ethics of Greek culture clashed with the ethics of Jesus. Sexual immorality was an accepted fact of life for the common person in Greek culture, but it was not to be so among the followers of Jesus."

David Guzik online commentary:
Study Guide for 1 Corinthians 5 by David Guzik

here is my favorite greek dictionary on inappropriate contenteia:

Strong number 4202 πορνεία inappropriate contenteía, gen. inappropriate contenteías, fem. noun from inappropriate contenteúō (4203), to commit fornication or any sexual sin. Fornication, lewdness, or any sexual sin.

(I) Any sexual sin; coupled with moicheía (3430), adultery (Mark 7:21), and other sins (Rom. 1:29). Used generally to refer to any sexual sin (1 Cor. 6:13, 18; 7:2; 2 Cor. 12:21; Gal. 5:19; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:3; Rev. 9:21). In John 8:41, “We be not born of fornication” means, “We are not spurious children, born of a concubine, but are the true descendants of Abraham” (a.t. [Sept.: Gen. 38:24; Hos. 1:2]). Specifically of adultery (Matt. 5:32; 19:9); of incest (1 Cor. 5:1). inappropriate contenteía may also refer to marriages within the degrees prohibited by the Law of Moses and generally to all such intercourse as prohibited in that Law (cf. Lev. 18; 20:10ff.).

(II) Symbolically it stands for idolatry, the forsaking of the true God in order to worship idols. Since God is said to be married to His Church through Christ, then any idolatry is unfaithfulness toward God equal to sexual unfaithfulness to one’s marriage partner (Rev. 2:21; 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2; Sept.: Jer. 3:9; Ezek. 16:15, 22; 23:27; Hos. 2:2; 4:12).

(III) Fornication as a sexual vice was common before the time of Moses and was grossly prevalent in Egypt (Gen. 39:7). Prostitution was not tolerated by the Sinaitical code, being an abomination in the sight of God (Lev. 19:29; Deut. 23:17, 18). Its price could not be accepted in the sanctuary (Mic. 1:7), and death by stoning was the penalty for an unmarried woman who had concealed her crime (Deut. 22:20, 21). The term “strange woman” in Prov. 2:16 probably referred to a harlot procured from foreigners. See also Prov. 2:16–19; 5:3–6; 7:5–27. God’s displeasure was thus incited (Jer. 5:7; Amos 2:7; 7:17). Such excesses were very common among the heathen in the times of the Apostles (1 Cor. 5:1, 9, 10; 6:9). Israel is symbolically presented as a harlot (Is. 1:21; Jer. 2:20; Ezek. 16; Hos. 1:2; 3:1)."

above quote from:
Zodhiates Greek New Testament Dictionary
Which is consistent with what I posted. I've studied it too. I will also say that it is very important to differentiate between second base, third base, and full penetration. The way shame works, people are deceived into thinking they might as well go all the way now because they don't think they're virgins anymore - even if they didn't lose their virginity yet. It is therefore not prudent or healthy to refer to second base as "fornication" today.
 
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createdtoworship

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Which is consistent with what I posted. I've studied it too. I will also say that it is very important to differentiate between second base, third base, and full penetration. The way shame works, people are deceived into thinking they might as well go all the way now because they don't think they're virgins anymore - even if they didn't lose their virginity yet. It is therefore not prudent or healthy to refer to second base as "fornication" today.
any sexual sin is considered fornication, as I have posted. Fornication can also refer to sex before marriage, or even homosexuality as well. All of it forbidden. I think it's important to not cater to sin in any fashion. Using gateway sin as a reason to avoid full sin, is still forbidden AS SIN. This is the whole purpose of avoiding dating in general. Because as a single person before God we cannot lay claim on another person. While in marriage it says we do not have full authority over our own body but our spouse does. We are considered in God's eyes, one flesh at that point. Without sovereignty or a mind of it's own. In marriage we can say to our spouse "thats mine." You know as the valentines hearts say. But before marriage we are not technically each others.
 
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Sketcher

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any sexual sin is considered fornication, as I have posted. Fornication can also refer to sex before marriage, or even homosexuality as well. All of it forbidden.
I know what inappropriate contentea means, and I did not contradict it. Neither do I care to expand it.
 
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createdtoworship

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It doesn't help at all.
I know what it says, but my husband does not have authority/power over my body. In what sense do you think that he might?
He has no power to stop me from getting ill or needing surgery.
He does not have the authority to stop me from getting a haircut, pierced ears, a tattoo or even plastic surgery should I want/need it.
He certainly does not have the authority, or right, to force sex upon me at every opportunity.

In Paul's day it was a pretty male dominated society. No one would have been surprised at a man having power over his wife. What, I think, would have been shocking was for Paul to have insisted that a woman had equal power over her husband's body. In other words, you are equal in the marriage relationship; if you feel you have power over your wife, she has power over you too. That alters things a bit; it means the husband no longer has the right to treat his wife like an object.

I love going to blue letter bible, selecting a verse and using their free commentaries, here is one by david guzik...

"
2. (1Cr 7:3-6) The principle of mutual sexual responsibility in marriage.

Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.

a. Instead of a man not to touch a woman, within marriage a husband must render to his wife the affection due her. It is wrong for him to withhold affection from his wife.

i. The affection due her is an important phrase. Since Paul meant this to apply to every Christian marriage, it shows that every wife has affection due her. Paul doesn’t think only the young or pretty or submissive wives are due affection; every wife is due affection because she is a wife of a Christian man.

ii. Paul also emphasizes what the woman needs: not merely sexual relations, but the affection due her. If a husband has sexual relations with his wife, but without true affection to her, he is not giving his wife what she is due.

iii. Affection also reminds us that when a couple is unable – for physical or other reasons – to have a complete sexual relationship, they can still have an affectionate relationship, and thus fulfill God’s purpose for these commands.

b. On the same idea, also the wife to her husband: The wife is not to withhold marital affection from her husband. Paul strongly puts forth the idea that there is a mutual sexual responsibility in marriage. The husband has obligations toward his wife, and the wife has obligations toward her husband.

i. Render to his wife: The emphasis is on giving, on “I owe you” instead of “you owe me.” In God’s heart, sex is put on a much higher level than merely the husband’s privilege and the wife’s duty.

c. The wife does not have authority over her own body: In fact, these obligations are so concrete, it could be said that the wife’s body does not even belong to herself, but to her husband. The same principle is true of the husband’s body in regard to his wife.

i. This does not justify a husband abusing or coercing his wife, sexually or otherwise. Paul’s point is that we have a binding obligation to serve our partner with physical affection.

ii. It is an awesome obligation: out of the billions of people on the earth, God has chosen one, and one alone, to meet our sexual needs. There is to be no one else.

d. Do not deprive one another: Paul rejects their idea that husband and wife could be more holy by sexual abstinence. In fact, harm can come when they deprive one another, as they open the door to the tempter (so that Satan does not tempt you).

i. The word for deprive is the same as defraud in 1 Corinthians 6:8. When we deny physical affection and sexual intimacy to our spouse, we cheat them.

ii. Do not deprive: Sexual deprivation in marriage has not only to do with frequency, but with romance also. This is why Paul tells husbands to render to his wife the affection due her. Deprivation in either sense gives occasion for the deprived to look elsewhere for fulfillment – and to destroy the marriage.

iii. For your lack of self-control: It might be easy to think that self-control is expressed by abstaining from sexual relations in marriage, but Paul says that to deprive one another is to show a lack of self-control, and a lack of self-control that will leave one easily tempted by Satan."

Above commentary from Blue letter Bible, David Guzik commentary on 1 corinthians:
Study Guide for 1 Corinthians 7 by David Guzik

If you want a more varied viewpoint I can post other expositors on this issue, but they will most likely agree because the text is very clear.
 
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TheDag

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for someone who only believes marriage is a piece of paper, I am not sure I respect your view of scripture. The Bible honors marriage, it literally does not honor dating. So I guess I see it hypocritical to ask me to prove dating is not in the Bible, when it should be your burden of proof to show that it is.
Mate you really need to start reading posts before responding. You have just falsely accused me not for the first time.
I never have and never will say Marriage is just a piece of paper. I was responding to a question. The question I was responding to forms the context for my comment.


Why do I need to prove dating is in the bible? That is not my claim. You made the claim that dating is a sin. As such that means the bible makes it clear that dating is sinful. You have not done so. You have burden of proof to support your claim with scripture. Don't just repeat your first post or others that have not provided scripture to support it. The sctipture needs to make it clear dating is sinful otherwise the claim can not be supported. If you want to argue dating is not beneficial then that is different. The bible does talk about things being permissable but not beneficial. That however is not calling non beneficial things sinful however.

Your entire argument rests on the fact you were unable to control yourself and therefore nobody else could possibly control themselves. Essentially that is saying you are better than everyone else.
 
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createdtoworship

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I know what inappropriate contentea means, and I did not contradict it. Neither do I care to expand it.
well I posted two sources, including a greek dictionary. So I think that is a bit more accurate than just a typical online version of strongs concordance or whatever Biblestudy.com has. That may be why you feel 2nd base is not fornication, and I am saying according to my greek dictionary that I posted above it is fornication. As I posted, adultery and fornication is listed as two separate things in various instances of sin lists. It would be redundant for example to say "sex before marriage" and "sex before marriage." In a list of sins. So again with sin, we are required to be ruthless with it. Take no hostages. inappropriate contentography for example can happen simply from browsing social media. I saw a girls face on twitter, and she had pretty eyes so I looked at her profile, and she was not only not christian, she was pinning pics of her in lingerie. Soft inappropriate content is inappropriate content. We have to be careful. I block all people including christians who post bikini pics. I am not saying that going to the beach is a sin, I am just saying that this clothing causes lust in not just me, but your average male. That is why they have bikini competitions. So I block all that stuff. But my point is this, I could say...."hey I have freedom to check out girls online, and check out bikini competitions, and check out lingerie commercials or ad's" And that may be true. But we don't use our freedom to sin. And I would be using my freedom to check out girls bodies, that I have no interest in getting to know personally and who probably are half my age, which is weird in itself. But guys seem fine with all of that. So the point is this, we should focus on modesty, and we should be ruthless with sin. Dating is a gateway to being perverted with one another, and that should not be. A hundred years ago, dating may have been a pure thing. But now it's not. (anyway here is a thread on modesty: Modesty among clothing and other areas).

Anyway I wanted to share some more greek resources on it, since you posted a lexicon that had an incomplete definition:


"2. inappropriate contenteía means “fornication” (sometimes involving adultery); figuratively it is a term for apostasy as unfaithfulness to God."

"The Apostolic Fathers. Hermas Mandates 4.1.1 warns against inappropriate contenteía, which differs from but also includes adultery (cf. Mandates 8.3; 4.1.5). "

above from:
THEOLOGICAL
DICTIONARY

OF THE

NEW TESTAMENT

edited by Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich
translated by Geoffrey W. Bromiley
-----------------------------------------


here is another source:
"4518 πορνεία (inappropriate contenteia), ας (as), ἡ (): n.fem.; ≡ DBLHebr 2388, 2393, 2394, 9373; Str 4202; TDNT 6.579LN 88.271 fornication, sexual immorality, sexual sin of a general kind, that includes many different behaviors (Mt 5:32; 15:19; 19:9; Mk 7:21; Jn 8:41; Ac 15:20; 1Co 6:18; 7:2; 2Co 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; 1Th 4:3)"

above quote from:
A Dictionary

of

Biblical
Languages

GREEK

New Testament

James Swanson

here is one more:
--------------------------------------------
Well I won't post it. What I noticed is that the dictionaries which have extensive definitions of words all say that fornication is separate from adultery or sex before marriage. The lexicons which have typically abbreviated definitions all say it's adultery only. So I think that is the problem using free online resources. It's like using wikipedia. It's ok for basic definitions, but when you really want to dig in, it's nice to have an actual greek dictionary. So so far All three greek dictionaries agree with me, and the lexicons typically agree with you. So I for one, would go with the more extensive definitions, as they typically break down every verse of the use of that greek word in the Bible, and then summarize it.
 
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Strong in Him

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I suggest buying a good commentary. I am disapointed that you do not believe the scripture as it reads.

I have several commentaries.
Tom Wright says, "verses 3 + 4 make clear what he has in mind in a striking statement of mutual equality between husband and wife............. he stresses that just as the wife does not have authority over her own body because the husband does, even so, the husband does not have authority over his own body, because his wife does! That was daring at the time and is challenging still." Paul for everyone, 1 Corinthians.
William Barclay says, "Marriage is a partnership. The husband cannot act independently of the wife, nor the wife of the husband. .... The husband must never regard the wife simply as a means of self gratification." The daily study Bible, the letters to the Corinthians.
David Prior says, "Husband and wife belong to each other .... in fat, [ch]7:4 is one of several passages where Paul explicitly talks of rights and ...... he accords to the wife precisely the same rights to enjoy her husbands body as he accords to the husband.
..... For Corinthian husbands, so wedded to their own rights, this very earthy instruction must have been something of a body blow." The message of 1 Corinthians.
New Bible commentary
1 Cor 7:4: The wife's body is not her 'personal property', and neither is the man's. Once he is married, he must not engage in sexual intercourse with another woman. It is not possible to find another reference in the literature of the ancient world which teaches that the husband surrenders his body exclusively to his wife on marriage". It goes on to say that it was customary to tell a woman on her wedding day that when her husband committed adultery with a prostitute, he was only satisfying his own passions and did not mean that he didn't love her. Paul is going against worldly custom and practice by stating that a husband should only be with his wife.

I believe Scripture. I believe that these verses mean that a husband and wife belong to each other, should have a relationship only with each other and the wife's body is not for her husband to do with as he pleases - unless he is prepared for his wife to treat him in the same way! As I said, in those days it was customary for a man to believe that he could act as he wished and his wife would have to put up with it.

I was asking you how you practically apply 1 Cor 7:4; what do you mean, and understand, by the phrase "husband has authority over the wife's body"?
I'm disappointed that you can't answer.
 
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Strong in Him

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All of this still has nothing to do with the claim that dating is a sin.

I think we all agree with fidelity within marriage. These verses do not say, far less prove, that 2 people cannot go out on dates before marriage.
 
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createdtoworship

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I have several commentaries.
Tom Wright says, "verses 3 + 4 make clear what he has in mind in a striking statement of mutual equality between husband and wife............. he stresses that just as the wife does not have authority over her own body because the husband does, even so, the husband does not have authority over his own body, because his wife does! That was daring at the time and is challenging still." Paul for everyone, 1 Corinthians.
William Barclay says, "Marriage is a partnership. The husband cannot act independently of the wife, nor the wife of the husband. .... The husband must never regard the wife simply as a means of self gratification." The daily study Bible, the letters to the Corinthians.
David Prior says, "Husband and wife belong to each other .... in fat, [ch]7:4 is one of several passages where Paul explicitly talks of rights and ...... he accords to the wife precisely the same rights to enjoy her husbands body as he accords to the husband.
..... For Corinthian husbands, so wedded to their own rights, this very earthy instruction must have been something of a body blow." The message of 1 Corinthians.
New Bible commentary
1 Cor 7:4: The wife's body is not her 'personal property', and neither is the man's. Once he is married, he must not engage in sexual intercourse with another woman. It is not possible to find another reference in the literature of the ancient world which teaches that the husband surrenders his body exclusively to his wife on marriage". It goes on to say that it was customary to tell a woman on her wedding day that when her husband committed adultery with a prostitute, he was only satisfying his own passions and did not mean that he didn't love her. Paul is going against worldly custom and practice by stating that a husband should only be with his wife.

I believe Scripture. I believe that these verses mean that a husband and wife belong to each other, should have a relationship only with each other and the wife's body is not for her husband to do with as he pleases - unless he is prepared for his wife to treat him in the same way! As I said, in those days it was customary for a man to believe that he could act as he wished and his wife would have to put up with it.

I was asking you how you practically apply 1 Cor 7:4; what do you mean, and understand, by the phrase "husband has authority over the wife's body"?
I'm disappointed that you can't answer.

Well I have already stated what I believe, I agree with all your commentaries.

I also agree with the commentary I posted:
Dating is a sin- just be friends till your married, no need to complicate...

when married you are one flesh, you don't have soverienty anymore. If a wife needs a cuddle, the man gives it. If a man needs sex, the wife does everything in her power to help him out as well. It's a partner ship. They are not individuals but one body. They do not have rights over their own sovereignty anymore, but now "the husband has authority over the wife, and the wife the husband." We all have needs, my wife needs gentle touches and hugs and cuddles, and I need sex. So we are one body and we submit to one another. As the Bible declares.
 
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createdtoworship

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All of this still has nothing to do with the claim that dating is a sin.

I think we all agree with fidelity within marriage. These verses do not say, far less prove, that 2 people cannot go out on dates before marriage.
one can go on dates, that is fine. As long as those dates don't employ physical rights over another person, as the Bible states we have in marriage. You have a right to expect a hug, or due affection from your husband, and he has his needs as well. But before marriage we don't have those rights. So going on dates, as long as their boundaries, and you go in groups, and or have an accountability team that check up on you guys. I know of a couple that did go alone on dates, but friends would text them through the night. So again you don't have to get legalistic about it, but have rules. And no physical aspect to the relationship. Again think about dating your sister, or you mother or father. That is what the Bible says to do, to treat another girl as my sister or mother. (1 Timothy 5:2) Not as a date. Would you grab your mothers behind as she walks by? Would you stick your tongue down her throat? If not you should probably not do that with your date.
 
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Strong in Him

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one can go on dates, that is fine.

Well that's fine then.
I was simply challenging your statement that dating is a sin". As you've either changed your mind about this or decided to clarify your position, I see no need to continue the debate.

See you around. :wave:
 
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Well I have already stated what I believe, I agree with all your commentaries.

I also agree with the commentary I posted:
Dating is a sin- just be friends till your married, no need to complicate...

when married you are one flesh, you don't have soverienty anymore. If a wife needs a cuddle, the man gives it. If a man needs sex, the wife does everything in her power to help him out as well. It's a partner ship. They are not individuals but one body. They do not have rights over their own sovereignty anymore, but now "the husband has authority over the wife, and the wife the husband." We all have needs, my wife needs gentle touches and hugs and cuddles, and I need sex. So we are one body and we submit to one another. As the Bible declares.

Except according to Scripture your wife has authority over your body. If she doesn't want you to have sex, isn't that her call since she has that authority? I asked this before but you failed to respond.
 
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createdtoworship

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Well that's fine then.
I was simply challenging your statement that dating is a sin". As you've either changed your mind about this or decided to clarify your position, I see no need to continue the debate.

See you around. :wave:
Dating as is currently defined is a sin. I was redefining dating to exclude all physical aspects. Which currently is not the definition of dating. But at that point one may say......if we don't kiss or cuddle or have long hugs, are we really dating? And I would say, not by current standards. So I hope that helps. Take care and thanks for the debate.
 
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