The Saint Steve Highlights of Christ Triumphant

Der Alte

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A further vital point there is; how far Bishop BUTLER designed to teach that "probation" is an adequate description of our moral relationship to God may be uncertain. Yet it is certain that practically his great name is (largely), the authority with those who teach in fact, if not in words, that God is primarily the Judge, or the Moral Governor of His creatures. Against this idea, which is working untold mischief, I earnestly protest. It is the fatal legacy, the damnosa hereditas, which the stern and narrowly legal mind of Rome, with a natural bent to cruelty, bequeathed to the Gospel. The God, Who is Love, is thus in practice changed into an Almighty Proconsul, while the Savior of Men is disguised in the garb of a Roman Governor. Not the mercy-seat, but the seat of judgment is presented to the eye. An inflexible code, and an unbending Judge rule all; on every side is diffused a sense of terror. Love is subordinate, sin becomes the central fact; guilt, not grace, comes first. "Our Father" to all practical purposes, disappears, while the great Taskmaster, or the Moral Governor, or the Accountant-General takes His place. It is not that in so many words the love of God and the divine Fatherhood, are denied, but that they are so often recognized in words only. Shrunken, atrophied, palsied, the doctrine remains, as in some country where the rightful monarch has not been formally dethroned, but has dwindled into a puppet.

Such a system may call itself the Gospel, may point to the support of the greatest names, and be taught in thousands of pulpits (often softened, but the same essentially), yet it is a counterfeit and no true Gospel.
Talk about pointing to the support of the greatest names. Nine (9) posts, back to back, quoting heterodox writers and criticizing unnamed groups for their allegedly false teaching. Nine posts which do not quote or refer to even one verse of scripture.
When President Lincoln was criticized for how he was conducting the civil war he said,

If I were to try to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business. I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what's said against me won’t amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference.


 
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Saint Steven

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Where has the bright and joyous Christianity vanished which covered the dark recesses of the Catacomb; (p. 105,) with every symbol, that could attest joy and triumph, but gave no place to any dark and painful image, not even to the Cross? Why was this? Because to these men the victory of Jesus Christ was a thing really believed in, a fact actually realized, and dominating all else. Because they believed that death, and its sting, was really, truly, universally SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. And so they loved to paint Christ radiant with youth and strength, true and absolute Conqueror of death and hell. Perpetual death, moral rottenness for ever festering, what place - such were their thoughts- have such things in a restored creation? Why is the Christ of religious art now so sad, with anguished features and drooping head - is it because He mourns His approaching defeat? Why have we so very generally banished from our churches the figure of the risen and triumphant Lord- is it because in our heart of hearts we feel in how many cases He fails to triumph? Whither has gone the Vision so noble, so tender, and yet so strong, of the victorious Christ as He descends into Hades, and opening the prison doors brings the disobedient dead back to life?

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes, "they have taken our Lord away and we know not where they have laid Him." They have taken "Our Father," too, "the All Father," and we know not where to find Him. For bread they give us a stony creed; judgment without mercy; hell without hope; evil without end; heaven without pity for the lost and the suffering; and a world here, in which to live is truly misery to the thoughtful, as being but the portal and antechamber to endless woe, for so many of their brothers and sisters in Christ, whom they are commanded to love as they love themselves.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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Catholics (?) indeed we call ourselves, while not one pulpit in a thousand in all England ventures so much as to hint at these glad tidings of the release of the dead from Hades, which Catholic antiquity universally taught, p. 97. Whither, too, has vanished that happier and higher view of death, as a CURE, as the remolding by the Great Artist of His own Likeness and Image, a view so significant and taught by so many and so famous names? p. 149. By what right have we virtually added to the Antient Creeds the fatal clause, "I believe in an eternity of evil?" p. 147. Why do we never hear the nobler view of the Resurrection as from its very nature a process of restoration? see pp. 122-3, 133, 142-3, 144.5, 178-84. Why has the important fact been steadily ignored, or even denied, of the wide diffusion of Universalism in the primitive Church? Why has the Church delighted to accept a cruel and uncatholic Africanism from the Bishop of Hippo, while refusing the nobler and more catholic teaching which the Bishop of Nyssa, p. 121-5, and so many saints freely taught in the Church's greatest age?

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Adamina

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FineLinen said:
...
FineLinen said:
"Indeed our translators have really done further hurt to those who can only read their English Bible. They have, wholly obscured a very important doctrine, that of "the ages." This when fully understood throws a flood of light on the plan of redemption, and the method of the divine working. Take a few instances which show the force and clearness gained, by restoring the true rendering of the words aion and aionios. Turn to S. Matt. xxiv. 3. There our version represents the disciples as asking "what should be the sign of the end of the world." It should be the end of the "age;" the close of the Jewish age marked by the fall of Jerusalem. In S. Matt. xiii. 39-40-49, the true rendering is not the end of the "world," but of the "age," an important change.
So S. John xvii. 3, "this is life eternal," should be "the life of the ages," i.e., peculiar to those ages, in which the scheme of salvation is being worked out. Or take Heb. v. 9; ix. 12; xiii. 20, "eternal salvation" should be "aeonian" or of the ages; "eternal redemption" is the redemption "of the ages ;" the eternal covenant is the "covenant of the ages," the covenant peculiar to the ages of redemption. In Eph. iii. 11, "the eternal purpose" is really the purpose of "the ages," i.e., worked out in "the ages." In ch. iii 21, there occurs a suggestive phrase altogether obscured (as usual, where this word is in question,) by our version, "until all the generations of the age of the ages." Thus it runs in the original, and it is altogether unfair to conceal this elaborate statement by merely rendering "throughout all ages." In 1 Cor. x. 11, "the ends of the world" are the "ends of the ages." In ch. ii. 6-7-8, the word aion is four times translated "world," it should be "age" or "ages" in all cases Here it is impossible to avoid asking how - assuming that aion does mean "world" in these cases - how it can yield, as an adjective, such a term as "everlasting?" If it mean "world," then the adjective should be "worldly," "of the world." And great force and freshness would be gained in our version by always adhering to the one rendering "age."
Nonsense! Closing one's eyes to the evidence and repeating the same copy/paste does not make it correct.
The Greek word "kosmos" means "world" but in these 15 verses
"kosmos" refers to something that cannot be the entire planet earth.
[1]Matthew 16:26
(26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? [Mark 8:36, Luke 9:25]

Let us use the fallacious aion/aionios argument on these verses. The word "world" cannot literally mean the entire planet earth because it refers to things that are not literally "the whole world" and "all the world."
Very interesting. I have never really delved into that greek word.
That word is used in only 3 verses of Revelation out of the 152 verses used in the rest of the NT:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

G2889 - kosmos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (YLT)
G2889
matches the Greek κόσμος (kosmos), which occurs 187 times in 152 verses

YLT)
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh Messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of the world<2889> did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign to the ages of the ages!'
Revelation 13:8 - And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land<1093>, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world<2889>;
Revelation 17:8 - 'The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder shall those dwelling upon the earth/land<1093>, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world<2889>, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.
===================
Google search for meaning of G2889/Kosmos.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...UCRK0KHdv_BcYQ1QIoAXoECAsQAg&biw=1366&bih=626

This site appears to confirm what you said concerning "kosmos":
Der Alter said: ....The Greek word "kosmos" means "world" but in these 15 verses
"kosmos" refers to something that cannot be the entire planet earth.............
The Spirit of the Word - Definition of Bible Terms

DEFINITION OF BIBLE TERMS.
WORLD, ÆON, KOSMOS.*
Continued from No. 2

We wish to present one or two more thoughts on æon, age, to complete the article in No. 2, and then to consider the word Kosmos.................

KOSMOS.
The definition given of the word kosmos is as follows: "order, a set form, the mode or fashion of a thing, the world or universe arrangement, mankind."
Every one can see at once from this definition that kosmos is an altogether different word from æon; the latter is a period of time, the former is as above; and yet we find this broad distinction practically obliterated in the common version by the fact that both words are rendered by the one English word, world.
The two principal meanings of Kosmos as used in the New Testament, will appear from the consideration of certain passages of scripture..............

1. We find that it means Mankind, the inhabitants of the earth; as, for example, "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world."
Here the word Kosmos plainly means mankind; so in the following:............................

2. The other meaning of Kosmos is the order, or arrangement of things; a mode, fashion, form or system of things; as illustrating this use, see John 6:23; Christ says to the Jews, "ye are of this world; I am not of this world;" that is to say, "ye are of this order or arrangement of things, wrong, iniquitous, and corrupt; I am of another order or system; so of his disciples he says, "ye are not of the world even as I am not of the world.".................

Many more passages might be cited to the same effect, but these are sufficient to show this important meaning of kosmos.
Now look at 2 Pet. 3. Three worlds are spoken of in this chapter, each world composed of a distinct heavens and earth. The heavens and earth which were "of old, standing out of the water and in the water," constituting "the world (kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished;" that order of things passed away, and a new order was established, "the heavens and the earth which are now," constituting "this world," that Christ and the apostles speak of, as we have noticed above.
"This world,"-this present iniquitous system of things-will be destroyed by fire (compare Zeph. 3:8, 9), at the "day of judgment" and will thus "pass away," and be succeeded by "a new heavens and new earth," constituting a new world, or order of things, "wherein dwelleth righteousness.".......................
 
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Saint Steven

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I do not mean that there has been a formal acceptance or rejection. I mean that Augustinianism has in fact leavened all Latin Christianity, banishing the nobler teachings of true catholicity. Thus, if God is to damn man eternally, there is a step certain to be taken (to justify, if possible, such a sentence), viz., the degrading and slandering that nature which man has received from God, and which the Son of God assumed and wears for ever. Thus, too, the Incarnation loses its proper place; the true lesson of Creation is ignored; the fact of the divine Image and Likeness in every man is displaced and forgotten. "Can anything be so precious as is the Image of God," asks S. AMBROSE. The very elect are "lepers covered with dung and mire, ulcers putrefied in their father's loins." - Answer to Travers, § 22. If even HOOKER, the judicious, can so write, how deeply must the fatal leaven have penetrated - indeed its traces are most legible to this day.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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To resume, I believe that no doctrine has ever gained so wide a currency, with so little support in Scripture, as has Probation; (and so little support in all the higher Patristic theology). In fact it is not the product of Scripture, it comes from the Philosophers, not from the Prophets, or the Apostles. And any one can notice how it is assumed, and not proved from Scripture, in the books that are current. Doubtless there is an element of probation in education, but, if God is our Father, the fact that dominates all else in our moral relationship to Him, is the education of humanity as His children. Certainly no education can go on without trial, but we are "tried that we may be educated, and not educated that we may be tried. • • The essential characteristic of a Father's love is that it is inextinguishable. "If I am here simply on trial, if I regard God as One Who is keeping a debtor and creditor account with me, I may in word call Him Father, and in word ascribe love to Him, but I cannot really regard Him as Father." - ERSKINE - The Purpose of God.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Der Alte

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I do not mean that there has been a formal acceptance or rejection. I mean that Augustinianism has in fact leavened all Latin Christianity, banishing the nobler teachings of true catholicity. [Totally false! DA] Thus, if God is to damn man eternally, there is a step certain to be taken (to justify, if possible, such a sentence), viz., the degrading and slandering that nature which man has received from God, and which the Son of God assumed and wears for ever. Thus, too, the Incarnation loses its proper place; the true lesson of Creation is ignored; the fact of the divine Image and Likeness in every man is displaced and forgotten. [Totally false! DA] "Can anything be so precious as is the Image of God," asks S. AMBROSE. The very elect are "lepers covered with dung and mire, ulcers putrefied in their father's loins." - Answer to Travers, § 22. If even HOOKER, the judicious, can so write, how deeply must the fatal leaven have penetrated - indeed its traces are most legible to this day.
To resume, I believe that no doctrine has ever gained so wide a currency, with so little support in Scripture, as has Probation; (and so little support in all the higher Patristic theology). In fact it is not the product of Scripture, it comes from the Philosophers, not from the Prophets, or the Apostles. And any one can notice how it is assumed, and not proved from Scripture, in the books that are current. Doubtless there is an element of probation in education, but, if God is our Father, the fact that dominates all else in our moral relationship to Him, is the education of humanity as His children. Certainly no education can go on without trial, but we are "tried that we may be educated, and not educated that we may be tried. • • The essential characteristic of a Father's love is that it is inextinguishable. "If I am here simply on trial, if I regard God as One Who is keeping a debtor and creditor account with me, I may in word call Him Father, and in word ascribe love to Him, but I cannot really regard Him as Father." - ERSKINE - The Purpose of God.
I have looked through the Bible and I can't find the books of Ambrose, Hooker, Erskine or Travers. I didn't see any scripture just the unsupported opinions of UR-ite "scholars."
 
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FineLinen

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To resume, I believe that no doctrine has ever gained so wide a currency, with so little support in Scripture, as has Probation; (and so little support in all the higher Patristic theology). In fact it is not the product of Scripture, it comes from the Philosophers, not from the Prophets, or the Apostles. And any one can notice how it is assumed, and not proved from Scripture, in the books that are current. Doubtless there is an element of probation in education, but, if God is our Father, the fact that dominates all else in our moral relationship to Him, is the education of humanity as His children. Certainly no education can go on without trial, but we are "tried that we may be educated, and not educated that we may be tried. • • The essential characteristic of a Father's love is that it is inextinguishable. "If I am here simply on trial, if I regard God as One Who is keeping a debtor and creditor account with me, I may in word call Him Father, and in word ascribe love to Him, but I cannot really regard Him as Father." - ERSKINE - The Purpose of God.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine

Dear Saint: Any silly idea that the Author & Finisher fails in the slightest degree to bring to pass Abba's will, fails in total failure. He is not a partial Saviour!

The Father has placed the Son (the Lord Lesous ) with a wonderful mission to bring ALL Home to Himself. Jesus Christ IS the Triumphant Saviour.

Jesus Christ is Christ triumphant!
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Dear Saint: Any silly idea that the Author & Finisher fails in the slightest degree to bring to pass Abba's will, fails in total failure. He is not a partial Saviour!
The Father has placed the Son (the Lord Lesous ) with a wonderful mission to bring ALL Home to Himself. Jesus Christ IS the Triumphant Saviour.
Jesus Christ is Christ triumphant!
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.
 
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Saint Steven

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Be it remembered that no reasonable man doubts that God is truly our Governor and our Judge. But we deny such a Governor and such a Judge, as the traditional creed depicts; we deny that the Father is ever (practically) lost in the Judge. We are forced to ask, Have these our teachers, learned aright the alphabet of the Gospel? If they had, could they talk as they do? For to say that God is "loving," is in fact to make love an attribute merely, like justice or wrath. God is not loving, for GOD IS LOVE, a distinction which is vital; which affects the whole Christian scheme in its essence. Nor is this error all. Our opponents seem not to understand what Love really is; else they could not accuse us of making light of retribution, because we insist that God is Love.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Der Alte

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Be it remembered that no reasonable man doubts that God is truly our Governor and our Judge. But we deny such a Governor and such a Judge, as the traditional creed depicts; we deny that the Father is ever (practically) lost in the Judge. We are forced to ask, Have these our teachers, learned aright the alphabet of the Gospel? If they had, could they talk as they do? For to say that God is "loving," is in fact to make love an attribute merely, like justice or wrath. God is not loving, for GOD IS LOVE, a distinction which is vital; which affects the whole Christian scheme in its essence. Nor is this error all. Our opponents seem not to understand what Love really is; else they could not accuse us of making light of retribution, because we insist that God is Love.
UR spam. Zero scripture.
 
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Saint Steven

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For the very essence of Love is misconceived, when it is confounded with mere good nature; forgetting the awful, inexorable, side of true (divine) love; forgetting, too, that
this love is essentially inextinguishable. With a gospel based on errors so cardinal as to substitute for the Father, the almighty Inspector - for His training, the idea of probation merely - with the central fact wrong, what wonder if all the rest is out of gear? Who could expect astronomy to flourish, if men were taught that this earth is the center, and not the sun? So with the moral universe. If I place Sin at the center, and not Love - I paralyze every motion, and wholly invert the divine order.

In fact we admit this divine rule far more truly than our opponents. To them God's rule is, in fact, baffled finally and hopelessly by evil, which He never succeeds in extinguishing.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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It is a sad fact, that Christian teachers should only admit that God is Love, provided no due practical conclusions are drawn from it. It is a sad fact, perhaps the saddest of all facts to those who try to see fairly, that in so very few, out of the vast number of Christian pulpits, is there preached a God, who is even as good as an average human parent. Those who so preach would themselves loathe the very touch of a human father or mother who should act, as they say God will act towards many (or any, what do numbers matter here?) of His creatures; or as God has in fact acted, when He forced on these unhappy ones the fatal gift of life, and thus in the phrase of the Poet, "cursed them into birth."

How seldom, again, is this question treated as it should be from the divine standpoint. Truly we need the profound lesson conveyed by the divine Spirit to an old Prophet, "The battle is not ours, BUT GOD'S." - 2 Chron. xx. 15. This weary, age-long battle with sin is, in its final issue, not ours, but God's. It is "the salvation of the Lord," emphatically. - ib. v. 17. Nowadays it is deemed the profoundest theology to forget all this: it is deemed the highest wisdom to hang the final issue of this awful conflict on the sin-stained, frail, ignorant will of a being like man. Instead of a theology they give us an anthropology; instead of a science of God, a science of man. We hear little of God's will, because as it may be conjectured that will points so emphatically to universal salvation.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Der Alte

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It is a sad fact, that Christian teachers should only admit that God is Love, provided no due practical conclusions are drawn from it. It is a sad fact, perhaps the saddest of all facts to those who try to see fairly, that in so very few, out of the vast number of Christian pulpits, is there preached a God, who is even as good as an average human parent. Those who so preach would themselves loathe the very touch of a human father or mother who should act, as they say God will act towards many (or any, what do numbers matter here?) of His creatures; or as God has in fact acted, when He forced on these unhappy ones the fatal gift of life, and thus in the phrase of the Poet, "cursed them into birth."
How seldom, again, is this question treated as it should be from the divine standpoint. Truly we need the profound lesson conveyed by the divine Spirit to an old Prophet, "The battle is not ours, BUT GOD'S." - 2 Chron. xx. 15. This weary, age-long battle with sin is, in its final issue, not ours, but God's. It is "the salvation of the Lord," emphatically. - ib. v. 17. Nowadays it is deemed the profoundest theology to forget all this: it is deemed the highest wisdom to hang the final issue of this awful conflict on the sin-stained, frail, ignorant will of a being like man. Instead of a theology they give us an anthropology; instead of a science of God, a science of man. We hear little of God's will, because as it may be conjectured that will points so emphatically to universal salvation.
Was God demonstrating His love in Genesis 7:21-22, Genesis 19:24-25, Exodus 12:29, Exodus 14:28?
 
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FineLinen

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It is a sad fact, that Christian teachers should only admit that God is Love, provided no due practical conclusions are drawn from it. It is a sad fact, perhaps the saddest of all facts to those who try to see fairly, that in so very few, out of the vast number of Christian pulpits, is there preached a God, who is even as good as an average human parent. Those who so preach would themselves loathe the very touch of a human father or mother who should act, as they say God will act towards many (or any, what do numbers matter here?) of His creatures; or as God has in fact acted, when He forced on these unhappy ones the fatal gift of life, and thus in the phrase of the Poet, "cursed them into birth."

How seldom, again, is this question treated as it should be from the divine standpoint. Truly we need the profound lesson conveyed by the divine Spirit to an old Prophet, "The battle is not ours, BUT GOD'S." - 2 Chron. xx. 15. This weary, age-long battle with sin is, in its final issue, not ours, but God's. It is "the salvation of the Lord," emphatically. - ib. v. 17. Nowadays it is deemed the profoundest theology to forget all this: it is deemed the highest wisdom to hang the final issue of this awful conflict on the sin-stained, frail, ignorant will of a being like man. Instead of a theology they give us an anthropology; instead of a science of God, a science of man. We hear little of God's will, because as it may be conjectured that will points so emphatically to universal salvation.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine

Dear Saint: The Will of all wee wills prevails! The final issue of sin prevailing over Him and His awesome love & grace in frail ignorant mankind has term limits.

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Adamina

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Was He demonstrating His love to the Jews in the Holocaust of 70 Jerusalem[ and in WW2]?

Luke 21
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be Great Distress in the land and wrath upon this people.' [Luke 23:27].
24 And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.[Deuteronomy 28:68/Revelation 11:2/13:10]
Revelation 13:10 If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
....Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal................

Actuated by the fiercest impulses rancour and revenge against the Jews, they rushed furiously upon them, slaying some with the sword, trampling others under their feet, or crushing them to death against the walls. Many, falling amongst the smoking ruins of the porches and galleries, were suffocated. The unarmed poor, and even sick persons, were slaughtered without mercy. Of these unhappy people numbers were left weltering in their gore.
Multitudes of the dead and dying were heaped round about the altar, to which they had formerly fled for protection, while the steps that led from it into the outer court were literally deluged with their blood....

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.
===============================
The present day Jews are still waiting on a Messiah/Savior [2000yrs and counting] that will never come except thru the faith and spirit that is of Jesus the Christ, God Almighty.
Christ came, He saw, and He conquered! Let all those of in Christ celebrate His victory!
Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Lo, your king comes to you; triumphant and victorious is he, humble and riding on an ass, on a colt the foal of an ass.

Revelation19:6 and I hear as sound of a throng, many, and as a sound of waters, many, and as sound of thunders, strong saying: "HalleluYah! that reigns Lord the God *of-us, the Almighty.
 
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Saint Steven

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Was He demonstrating His love to the Jews in the Holocaust of 70 Jerusalem[ and in WW2]?
Are you claiming that God is not love?

Humans have free will. Don't blame God for what we do with that freedom.
 
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FineLinen

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Der Alte

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Was He demonstrating His love to the Jews in the Holocaust of 70 Jerusalem[ and in WW2]?
Are you serious? Was God, Himself, responsible for the "Holocaust 70 Jerusalem [and WW2]?" as He clearly was in the vss. I cited? And many more I could cite where God directed Israel to go into Canaanite cities and destroy every living thing, old, young, men, women, children, infants
The present day Jews are still waiting on a Messiah/Savior [2000yrs and counting] that will never come except thru the faith and spirit that is of Jesus the Christ, God Almighty.
Christ came, He saw, and He conquered! Let all those of in Christ celebrate His victory!
What is your point? How does this address my post and your objections?
 
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