The seven kings of Revelation 17:10

Davy

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Davy, it is not that simple. The 7 years can be divided in half to get 1260 days, yes. But the only 1260 days (in text of the bible) is tied to the testimony time of the two witnesses.

The other times frames of 42 months and the times, time, half times are actually a little less than 1260 days days - to take into account for the 3 1/2 days that the two witnesses bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, and the amount of earth time that passes as the war in the second heaven takes place.

Why don't you try to make a chart that has all of the information on my chart - but into the form of a horizontal layout, with multiple linear rows. And when you get through - you will find it is hard to determine the critical timeline path of events like on my chart.

On my chart, you get on that red line and stay on that red line all the way to Jesus's return. It will take you through the seven years, the critical events, just like you were seeing a vision.

If I make a chart, it will be of the main events of the "one week" per God's Word, not your chart. You have some things out of order on your chart I do not agree with.
 
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Douggg

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Dan 11:21
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

KJV

That's the same one of Daniel 8 that will use peace to destroy many. It represents the final Antichrist at the end of this world.
The vile person in Daniel 11:21 is referring to Antiochus IV. Differently, Daniel 8 is referring to the end times little horn person, because the vision of the transgression is time of the end
Dan 11:23
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

KJV

That is the covenant made of Daniel 9:27, which he breaks in the middle of the "one week'.
The violation of the covenant is the Mt. Sinai covenant, yes. But the league made is referring to the high priests appointed by Antiochus IV.

Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

He will forsake the holy covenant, which is about his ending the daily sacrifices. And instead he will cause an idol abomination to be placed in the holy place instead for worship. That event is what Jesus showed in Matt.24 and Mark 13 that starts... the time of "great tribulation".
Verses 30-31 is talking about Antiochus IV. The ships of Chittum, were the Romans, who forced Antiochus to return from his intent to invade Egypt and remove the Roman Empire approved leader. It was the famous "line in sand" event.

Antiochus IV, in being forced to return, took out his anger on the Jews, sacrificing a pig on the altar, and placing a statue image of Zeus in the temple. It is not end times, although the type of desecration of the temple, the statue image, is the same type abomination as that will be done in the end times.

Dan 11:32-35
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
KJV


All of those above verses are for tribulation timing, and is about persecution of the saints in the last days. And those verses go with that time of the "vile person" who represents the coming Antichrist at the end of this world.
Well, there are Maccabees in verse 32, and martyred Christians following. Verse 35 is the transition to the end times - for the remainder of Daniel 11, as end times events.
 
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Davy

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The vile person in Daniel 11:21 is referring to Antiochus IV. Differently, Daniel 8 is referring to the end times little horn person, because the vision of the transgression is time of the end

The violation of the covenant is the Mt. Sinai covenant, yes. But the league made is referring to the high priests appointed by Antiochus IV.

Verses 30-31 is talking about Antiochus IV. The ships of Chittum, were the Romans, who forced Antiochus to return from his intent to invade Egypt and remove the Roman Empire approved leader. It was the famous "line in sand" event.

Antiochus IV, in being forced to return, took out his anger on the Jews, sacrificing a pig on the altar, and placing a statue image of Zeus in the temple. It is not end times, although the type of desecration of the temple, the statue image, is the same type abomination as that will be done in the end times.

Well, there are Maccabees in verse 32, and martyred Christians following. Verse 35 is the transition to the end times - for the remainder of Daniel 11, as end times events.

Once again, Jesus quoted about the "abomination of desolation" event from the Book of Daniel about 200 years AFTER... Antiochus IV had been dead.

Let me say that again, Antiochus IV was already dead when Jesus warned of the coming "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel, particularly the Daniel 11:31 event.

You can go on all you want to with saying the "vile person" Scripture in Daniel 11 is past, but you'd be denying what our Lord Jesus warned about that false one for the end of this world (after Antiochus IV had already been dead).
 
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Douggg

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Once again, Jesus quoted about the "abomination of desolation" event from the Book of Daniel about 200 years AFTER... Antiochus IV had been dead.

Let me say that again, Antiochus IV was already dead when Jesus warned of the coming "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel, particularly the Daniel 11:31 event.

You can go on all you want to with saying the "vile person" Scripture in Daniel 11 is past, but you'd be denying what our Lord Jesus warned about that false one for the end of this world (after Antiochus IV had already been dead).
Davy, do a word search for "vile" in the new testament. You will find that Jesus did not use the term vile.

The abomination of desolation for the end times is in Daniel 12, not the event in Daniel 11:31.
 
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Douggg

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If I make a chart, it will be of the main events of the "one week" per God's Word, not your chart. You have some things out of order on your chart I do not agree with.
Davy, anyone can make a horizontal line chart that looks like this. But it does not reveal much.

day 1__________(the 70th week of Daniel 9:27)________________day 2520 (end of the 7 years)

But I think you should try to make your own chart anyway; to see what you come up with.
 
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nolidad

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The Daniel 11 Scripture reveals Antichrist will be of the Jewish people. Those of Matthew 24:23-26 could not claim Christ is here, or there, if he were not born of the house of David.

Dan 11:37
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

KJV

That is a big stretch! It says nothing of whom his fathers were. Remember in order for a man to be anointed King of Israel- He MUST be of the lineage of David! Since the genealogies were all destroyed when the temple was destroyed- the next King Israel will anoint is the Messiah!

The Matthew 24:5 verse is about the idea of "many antichrists" that John said are already at work. Those are the ones you're talking about, even those of today who claim to be our Lord Jesus. But the Matthew 24:23-26 section is about a singular "antichrist", the one John said the brethren had already heard shall come (that Jesus warned that is coming per John 14:30).

What's the difference between those two Matt.24 sections?

Because they are both talking about the end times! After Jesus there were several that were risen up that called themselves a "messiah" but almost no one before!


The latter, Matthew 24:23-26 is about the coming of a false one that will have POWER to work great signs and wonders that would almost... deceive even Christ's very elect. The former claimers are not shown with that ability to work that, which can also be seen with the many fakes of the past and of today. When the Antichrist of verses 23-26 shows up, the whole world... will be deceived by the miracles he is given to work, excepting Christ's elect; that is the subject about the 'dragon' too in Revelation 13:4-8.

No! Do not toss out grammar for a concept- but let yor concepts be formed by the God who instituted grammar! This is talking about false christs rising and people saying here is here or there or somewhere. Jesus concludes that thought with verse 27. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus was saying that people will be saying "messiah is here or there or in the desert etc.".. Jesus concluded the thought by saying- Look when I come back it will be like the lightening- everyone sees it! This corresponds to REv. 1

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
 
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nolidad

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There's TWO separate beast types given in Rev.13. The first one is a beast kingdom having ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. That is the 'beast' the "dragon" gives power to.

Even in Revelation 13:11 we are given the hint of who that "another beast" (2nd beast) really is, because he will speak like a dragon (because he is the dragon, i.e., Satan).

The Satanic trinity idea is from men's doctrines. The beast and false prophet of Revelation 16 & 19 are simply ROLES the Antichrist will play. That "another beast", is the beast king, and a false prophet, and the dragon, all rolled into one entity. In contrast, our Lord Jesus is KING, and also a Prophet (per OT Deut.), and High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. When Jesus returns, those roles of the beast king and false prophet the dragon will play, will be over. This is why we are shown the beast and false prophet are then cast into the lake of fire, even before the final Judgment after Jesus' thousand years reign.

It is much mans idea as the Trinity is mans idea! Both are biblically true! Satan is the actual father of the antichrist! The second beast (lamb with horns) is the false prophet and he acts as a counterfeit holy spirit calling all to be marked as the true Holy Spirit marks all true believers. The Antichrist is not the false prophet.

REv. 13: 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Shows that The dragon and teh first beast (coming out of the gentiles or sea) are two separate entities.

REv. 13:
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Once again this shows two separate entities. The false prophet is a totally distinct person than the antichrist!

In verse 12 the word before is :
ἐνώπιον
Transliteration
enōpion ἐν (G1722) and a derivative of ὀπτάνομαι (G3700)
Greek Inflections of ἐνώπιον ἐνώπιόν — 7x
ἐνώπιον — 90x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: before (64x), in the sight of (16x), in the presence of (7x), in (one's) sight (5x), in (one's) presence (2x), to (1x), not translated (2x).


To say it is a different role for the same person is just grammatically nonsense and the false prophet works miracles in the presence of the first beast! Two separate entities! They are called the counterfeit trinity because they act like the real trinity except it is for evil.
 
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Davy

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Davy, do a word search for "vile" in the new testament. You will find that Jesus did not use the term vile.

The abomination of desolation for the end times is in Daniel 12, not the event in Daniel 11:31.

I disagree with your idea on that word vile. That word in Daniel is simply used as an adverb for Antichrist. The actual Hebrew word means a contemptible person.

The "abomination of desolation" Jesus pointed to is written in Daniel 9:27, and Daniel 8:12-13, and in Daniel 11:31, and in Daniel 12:11. They are ALL... about the same event for the very end of this world.

I don't know what doctrine of men it is that is making you deny the Daniel 11:31 verse about that "abomination that maketh desolate" being the very "abomination of desolation" our Lord Jesus foretold of, but it's kind of eerie that you're not recognizing it.

Now I realize that some Preterist cults try to say Antiochus IV fulfilled that Daniel 11 Scripture and that's it's all past history, and that's why they deny it has anything to do with Christ's warning about it in His Olivet discourse, but those are cults who do that. They don't stick strictly to what is written in God's Word. They also deny that the Dan.9:27 verse is about the end, and try to move the 70th week back to Jesus' 1st coming.
 
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Davy

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That is a big stretch! It says nothing of whom his fathers were. Remember in order for a man to be anointed King of Israel- He MUST be of the lineage of David! Since the genealogies were all destroyed when the temple was destroyed- the next King Israel will anoint is the Messiah!

I agree with Hippolytus (d.240 A.D.), an early Church father:

"Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king,John 18:37 so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; John 1:29 so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, John 2:19 and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand." (from On Christ and Antichrist by Hippolytus)
 
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summerville

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The vile person in Daniel 11:21 is referring to Antiochus IV. Differently, Daniel 8 is referring to the end times little horn person, because the vision of the transgression is time of the end

The violation of the covenant is the Mt. Sinai covenant, yes. But the league made is referring to the high priests appointed by Antiochus IV.

Verses 30-31 is talking about Antiochus IV. The ships of Chittum, were the Romans, who forced Antiochus to return from his intent to invade Egypt and remove the Roman Empire approved leader. It was the famous "line in sand" event.

Antiochus IV, in being forced to return, took out his anger on the Jews, sacrificing a pig on the altar, and placing a statue image of Zeus in the temple. It is not end times, although the type of desecration of the temple, the statue image, is the same type abomination as that will be done in the end times.


Well, there are Maccabees in verse 32, and martyred Christians following. Verse 35 is the transition to the end times - for the remainder of Daniel 11, as end times events.

Evidently the guys who wrote Daniel think Antiochus IV is the little horn. His young son inherited the title after his death and the regent for the child ran the show.. That is another whole fascinating story.
 
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Davy

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It is much mans idea as the Trinity is mans idea! Both are biblically true! Satan is the actual father of the antichrist! The second beast (lamb with horns) is the false prophet and he acts as a counterfeit holy spirit calling all to be marked as the true Holy Spirit marks all true believers. The Antichrist is not the false prophet.

Satan himself is actually the Antichrist. All others are the "many antichrists". In 1 John 2:18, John mentioned the brethren had already heard that "antichrist" shall come. That phrase is about a singular antichrist figure, not the "many antichrists" he mentioned later.

How and where did the brethren 'already' hear that antichrist shall come? They heard it from the Apostles of course, but where might they have heard it from? From Jesus, here...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.

KJV

So who is that "prince of this world"?
 
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Douggg

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Satan himself is actually the Antichrist. All others are the "many antichrists". In 1 John 2:18, John mentioned the brethren had already heard that "antichrist" shall come. That phrase is about a singular antichrist figure, not the "many antichrists" he mentioned later.

How and where did the brethren 'already' hear that antichrist shall come? They heard it from the Apostles of course, but where might they have heard it from? From Jesus, here...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.

KJV

So who is that "prince of this world"?
Satan is the prince of this world.

Differently, the Antichrist is supposed come future of John, in 1John2:18.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

They were aware of the concept of antichrist, someone who would be embraced as the king of Israel, instead of and against the rightful king of Israel, Jesus.

There were many who were being likened to the coming antichrist, calling them antichrists as well as, because they had departed the faith and were denying Jesus. Which is the spirit of antichrist.
 
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nolidad

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The are millions of Jews that are of different countries than Israel.

Daniel 9:26-27, indicates that he will not be from China, Japan, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, etc. He will be from Europe.

Sorry for the delay, I am undergoing multiple MRI's on my head and brain that are time consuming!

Yes I believe he will be European as well.

Jesus's mother was not Eve. Jesus was born to Mary, a Jew.

Where in the bible are you finding that the Antichrist will claim to be a counterfeit, claiming to be the personage of Jesus ?

Yes Jesus was Jewish His Father (God) birthed the Jewish nation and His mother is Jewish.

As for the antichrist being a counter feitn- he counterfeits so much of Jesus.

1. His supernatural father
2. His lying signs and wonders.
3. His rising from the dead
4. He directs worship to his father -Satan.

So the devil, the anitchirst and the false prophet form a "counterfeit trinity" It is a man made term for sure- but it accurately describes what they do in the end times.

No, I gave you additional verses which it says right in the text "Christ the King" of Israel. John 5:43, indicates part of the meaning of the prefix "Anti" - i.e. instead of. The other part is "against". Which it is common knowledge that Jews (Judaism) are against the belief that Jesus is the rightful king of Israel.

Jesus is King of Israel! But sorry- no matter how much you want it to be , anti does not nor ever does in the original language mean "another". That would be "heteros" or "allos". Anti in the greek always, I repeat always means against!

Right now Israel rejects the Kingship of Israel (except for the saved Jews) but the day is coming when the veil will be removed and all Israel will be saved and accept Jesus as Messiah and King.

The Jews as a collective body do not anoint the person the king of Israel, but by the false prophet. All of (united) Israel's kings were anointed king by a prophet. Saul and David by Samuel; Solomon by Nathan.

So now you are adding to the bible that the false prophet which defies all religious Israel stands for will be allowed to anoint the antichrist king of Israel? and that Israel will accept this anointing?

I know you desperately wish to cling to the idea that the antichrist must be king of Israel. YOu have placed much effort in your charts and posts defending this hypothesis. I understand this.

But let me give you the two most damning facts that hopefully puts this thought to rest.

1. Once the Jewish priesthood is re-established, they will only anoint as King one who is a proven descendant from David. As the genealogies were destroyed c. 70AD, the only Jews that know their tribal ancestry is the Levites. All Levis, Levenseins, Leventhals, and Cohens etc are Levites. So they would not anoint anyone but a descendant of David.

2. Let us look at one of the descriptions of the Antichrist ascending:

Revelation 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

I am sure you are already aware that when sea is used symbolically, it always refers to gentiles! So between Daniel 9 and here we know his mother is a gentile.
 
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nolidad

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Satan himself is actually the Antichrist. All others are the "many antichrists". In 1 John 2:18, John mentioned the brethren had already heard that "antichrist" shall come. That phrase is about a singular antichrist figure, not the "many antichrists" he mentioned later.

How and where did the brethren 'already' hear that antichrist shall come? They heard it from the Apostles of course, but where might they have heard it from? From Jesus, here...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.

KJV

So who is that "prince of this world"?

NO! The son of Satan is the antichrist. The prince of this world when Jesus spoke is satan.

Remember Jesus' temptation in th ewilderness? When Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of this world if Jesus would bowq? Jesus refused the offer, But the counterfeit Christ (His son) will accept this offer.

Rev. 13:
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The dragon gives his authority to the beast! They are two people.

Then from Rev. 20: 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The antichrist preceds the devil inot the lake of fire! Satan is not omnipresent so he can't be in the lake of fire and on th eearth deceiving people one more time!

The beast and the dragon are two separate entities.
 
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nolidad

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I agree with Hippolytus (d.240 A.D.), an early Church father:

"Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king,John 18:37 so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; John 1:29 so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, John 2:19 and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand." (from On Christ and Antichrist by Hippolytus)

You can agree with whoever you wish, but remember this Hippolytus was not anointed to write Scripture!

The antichrist is not likened to a lamb- the false prophet is with two horns!
 
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Davy

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Satan is the prince of this world.

Yes, and that is who our Lord Jesus said is coming.

The Rev.12:7-9 verses shows Satan's casting out of the Heavenly dimension, with "neither was their place found anymore in heaven" (Revelation 12:8). There's only 2 dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one we live in, and the Heavenly one where God and the angels live, including Satan and his angels in a place of separation in the Heavenly. Thus that phrase of Rev.12:8 with no more place found for him and his angels in Heaven, that means he is coming, literally, to our earth, in OUR earthly dimension.

That will be the fulfillment of the John 12:31 verse. Many think that verse was about the time of our Lord's crucifixion, and that Satan was somehow cast out and bound then. That's not what that casting out idea is about. It's about the future Revelation 12:7-9 event which will start the great tribulation timing.
 
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Davy

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You can agree with whoever you wish, but remember this Hippolytus was not anointed to write Scripture!

And neither are we, for God has already given us His prophets that we are to listen to.

The antichrist is not likened to a lamb- the false prophet is with two horns!

Sure he is, which is the whole idea behind the Greek for the word "antichrist", because in the Greek 'anti' can mean 'in place of', or 'instead of'. The Antichrist specifically is coming to exalt himself in place of Jesus Christ. This is why Jesus warned about others saying that 'Christ is here, or there'. Those deceived won't be proclaiming Christ has come unless they actually believe Christ has come.
 
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Douggg

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Douggg

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I am sure you are already aware that when sea is used symbolically, it always refers to gentiles! So between Daniel 9 and here we know his mother is a gentile.
It just means the person will come out of the gentile nations. It does not mean that he will not be a Jew.
 
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Douggg

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So now you are adding to the bible that the false prophet which defies all religious Israel stands for will be allowed to anoint the antichrist king of Israel? and that Israel will accept this anointing?
I have not added any words to the bible. I am giving my interpretation and application.

Nolidad, the shortfall of your interpretation and application is that you don't consider the changes to the arch villain of the end times as time goes by. You don't see any changes to his personna, his station in life, none of that, as time goes by.

Nor do you see any change to the perceived aspect to the false prophet over the 7 years. You don't see that at the beginning of the 7 years, the Jews will believe the false prophet to be Elijah.
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Stop with the false accusations implying that I am adding words to the text of the bible. You create friction when you do that to other posters. Just address the other person's interpretation and application.
 
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