My latest chart (number 3)

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Ezekiel 28:1-10 is referring to the prince of Tyrus (Tyre) - the revealed man of sin
Ezekiel 28:12-19 is referring to the king of Tyrus (Tyre) - Satan.

God is symbolically referring to Satan with BOTH examples. The particular sin Satan did against God in the beginning was to covet His throne. That is what God mocks him about in the Ezekiel 28:2, 6, 9. In the Ezekiel 28:12-115 verses is also a direct pointer to Satan, and no flesh king has ever been in God's Garden of Eden, nor is a flesh born man a heavenly cherub.

Ezek 28:13-14
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
KJV

The Isaiah 14 Scripture gives us another parallel about Satan's original rebellion in coveting God's throne. The KJV translators brought forth Hebrew heylel (morning star) into English as "Lucifer" just to make sure we know who God is actually pointing to there in Isaiah 14. Reading the Ezekiel 28 part about the prince of Tyrus who coveted God's throne ought to automatically reveal the same thing as in Isaiah 14 about Satan.

In the Ezekiel 28:12 forward Scripture about the king of Tyrus, there is absolutely no mistaking that God is really speaking about Satan as that cherub who was in His Garden of Eden, and was originally perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him.

Thusly, both in Ezekiel represent Satan, and the "man of sin" who will try to do the same coveting of God's throne once again in Jerusalem for the end, will be Satan himself. And he will appear with the image of 'man', which that is the image he has in the Heavenly dimension also.

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Douggg said:
@Davy,

Of the 7 kings in Revelation 17:10, the bible speaks more about the 7th king the little horn person than all of the other kings combined. He is the prominent. And he is the head in Revelation 13 having the mouth like a lion, after being mortally wounded but healed, to become the beast, the 8th king.

The Rev.17:8, 10, 11 verses are pointing to Satan as the 7th king, and as the 8th, but also "is of the seven", meaning Satan has been the main worker behind the scenes of the previous 6 beast kings. But the 7th king, which is for the end of this world, will be Satan himself. He also will be the 8th king, which is for after Christ's future "thousand years" reign when he is loosed one final time to deceive the nations.

Again, the "deadly wound" is NOT upon the beast king (Antichrist). It is upon one of the "seven heads" of the system, the kingdom.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV

God doesn't do monsters. There is no such thing as a 'seven headed' beast king! Those who created the idea that the beast king receives the deadly wound have misinterpreted the Scripture.

Rev 13:11-12
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
KJV

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Douggg said:
No, it is talking about Satan to be exposed visibly there on the temple mount - when the living statue image he will be incarnating is burnt to ashes. To happen, when Jesus descends to earth to stand on the Mt. of Olives.

That Ezekiel 28:18 verse is about the destruction of Satan himself, God bringing a fire within him, on the earth. It happens on earth once he is loosed a final time after the Millennium, for that is when Rev.20 shows Satan is destroyed by the lake of fire.

Douggg · Mar 11, 2020

Davy said:
That Revelation 13:2 verse is a reference back to Daniel 7 regarding the four beasts Daniel saw. What did it say?

Dan 7:3-4
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
KJV

That was a reference to the kingdom of Babylon, represented by the lion AND the "eagle's wings". You could... say that was about both Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. But that is not a direct reference to the Rev.13:1 beast for the end, because the later one in Daniel 7:9 is...

Dan 7:7-9
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.
KJV

The 4th beast = the ten horns are the ten kings of Rev.17, and the little horn represents the beast king of Rev.17. It is the LAST beast kingdom, which is what the Rev.13:1 beast is. The Dan.7:9-14 verses shows the end of that 4th beast with Christ's coming and establishing of His future Kingdom.

This means the lion, bear, and leopard symbols in Rev.13:2 are given to show us the Rev.13:1 beast is the 4th one of that Dan.7 chapter, on earth at the end of this world, the last one when Christ Jesus will return and take control over all nations.

Davy, you did not answer the question. The first beast in Revelation 13, has a mouth like a lion, as John saw the beast. Where is that lion's mouth located on the beast?

I am not asking you what the different beast symbols represent. I am asking you where on the beast that John saw is the mouth like a lion located?

If you were to draw an artist's rendition of the first beast that John saw, according to the description, where would you put the mouth like a lion ?
____________________________________________________________

Here is an artist's rendition, who actually got it right...

The prominent head is king 7, the little horn person, who will be mortally wounded/healed - and after being healed, with the mouth like a lion blasphemes God and them in heaven.

His body represents his kingdom and his head (with the lion's mouth) represents him.

The first beast is a king. And the second beast is the false prophet. Neither is Satan. They are two men.
___________________________________________________

The artist also rightfully put the ten horns on the one prominent head with the lion's mouth, because the ten horns (ten kings of his kingdom) are also associated with him.

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Davy, you did not answer the question. The first beast in Revelation 13, has a mouth like a lion, as John saw the beast. Where is that lion's mouth located on the beast?

Oh, obviously with the Daniel 7 evidence I posted in my last post (#160) shows I did... answer your question, and gave you Scripture evidence. Now if you don't care to heed that about the Rev.13:2 symbols, but instead desire to stay on an idea foreign to God's written Word, then that is your choice.

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Douggg said:
I am not asking you what the different beast symbols represent. I am asking you where on the beast that John saw is the mouth like a lion located?

You will not... understand about the final beast kingdom and beast king to come upon this earth at the end of this world if you don't understand that the last one is the one existing when Jesus comes to end it. Now I showed you from Daniel 7 how the lion symbol is represented by the historical Babylon kingdom, and that Daniel 7 chapter is where those symbols of a lion, leopard, and bear originate. The reason those are pointed to in Rev.13:2 in relation to that 1st beast out of the sea there, is because it's to show us that 1st beast is like those ones written of in that Daniel 7 chapter.

So the little dream world game of applying EU theories, or what not, to those lion, bear, and leopard symbols is nothing but doctrines of men, theories of men foreign to the Word of God. And God does NOT do monsters, so pictures of fictional beasts just doesn't get it.

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Here's another description of the last beast kingdom from the Book of Daniel, and it parallels the 4th beast of Daniel 7 where the lion, bear, and leopard symbols are given. The last beast in Daniel 7 is the beast with "ten horns". It is the same one of Rev.13:1.

God gave Daniel to interpret Neb's dream. The image statue Neb saw has 5 main sections or pieces, and each one represents a beast kingdom, the last one is for the end of this world...

Dan 2:32-33
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
KJV

1 - head of gold
2 - breast and arms of silver
3 - belly and thighs of brass
4 - legs of iron
5 - feet part of iron and part of clay

The underlined one is the one in Rev.13:1 that is in the works today. The feet of ten toes represents the ten kings.

Jesus is the "stone" that comes to smite that final beast on its feet...

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

All five pieces of the beast statue is broken "together" when Jesus comes. That means ALL five of those beasts will be manifest together, for the end. It shows what kind of beast the final one will be, i.e, world-wide.

This is why when Jesus smites the final beast upon its ten toes, all the other pieces fall together with it.

Dan 2:42-44
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
KJV

So there's really no use in assigning all kinds of theories to the lion, bear, and leopard symbols, because those represent the old beast kingdoms of Daniel 7, which is where those symbols come from. It's the LAST beast that we need to be aware of, which is the one with ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay. That's the one of Rev.13 that has the ten kings (Rev.17), with a beast king they will give their power to for "one hour".

Douggg · Mar 11, 2020

Davy said:
Oh, obviously with the Daniel 7 evidence I posted in my last post (#160) shows I did... answer your question, and gave you Scripture evidence. Now if you don't care to heed that about the Rev.13:2 symbols, but instead desire to stay on an idea foreign to God's written Word, then that is your choice.

Davy, you did not answer the question. If I ask you where is your mouth on your body - would say in your foot, in your stomach, your knee ...?

There is a lion's mouth on the beast coming out of the sea, with 7 heads. Where is that lion's mouth? Not what it represents, but just where it was located on that beast John saw?

Davy · Mar 11, 2020

Douggg said:
Davy, you did not answer the question. If I ask you where is your mouth on your body - would say in your foot, in your stomach, your knee ...?

There is a lion's mouth on the beast coming out of the sea, with 7 heads. Where is that lion's mouth? Not what it represents, but just where it was located on that beast John saw?

You have yet to respond to very little of what I wrote, and I showed you with Scripture evidence from Daniel 7 what that 'lion' symbol in Rev.13:2 represented.

So I could care less about that 'theory' you have about the lion symbol, because it is 'outside' the actual Scriptures, nothing written to back that idea up. You MUST go back to the DANIEL 7 Scripture to trace the symbolic meaning of that LION symbol!

Let me know when you are ready to address the Daniel 7 Scripture where that lion symbol originated.

Douggg · Mar 11, 2020

Davy said:
You have yet to respond to very little of what I wrote, and I showed you with Scripture evidence from Daniel 7 what that 'lion' symbol in Rev.13:2 represented.

So I could care less about that 'theory' you have about the lion symbol, because it is 'outside' the actual Scriptures, nothing written to back that idea up. You MUST go back to the DANIEL 7 Scripture to trace the symbolic meaning of that LION symbol!

Let me know when you are ready to address the Daniel 7 Scripture where that lion symbol originated.

Davy, my question is not about the meaning of the lion. I am asking you where on the first beast is the mouth like a lion is located on that beast.

We can get into the Daniel 7 vision after you answer the question. Because you need to admit that the mouth like a lion was on one of the heads.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Davy · Mar 12, 2020

Douggg said:
Davy, my question is not about the meaning of the lion. I am asking you where on the first beast is the mouth like a lion is located on that beast.

We can get into the Daniel 7 vision after you answer the question. Because you need to admit that the mouth like a lion was on one of the heads.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

It's no use, your reading comprehension just isn't properly interpreting the Scripture.

Rev 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
KJV

It just says his mouth is 'AS' the mouth of a lion. The lion symbol is simply being used like it was in the Book of Daniel. It doesn't tell you 'where' the mouth is located, it just says it has a 'mouth' AS a lion. That symbol is being used to show 'how' it destroys. God used it in several OT examples. It's a symbol also back in the Rev.9 Chapter about the locust army with how it attacks, like teeth of a lion.

The lion was used as a symbol by historical Babylon, and that is what Revelation 13:2 is pointing to. The bear symbol points to the historical Medo-Persia empire. And the leopard symbol for Alexander's empire. The purpose of these symbols for the last beast kingdom is to show how those previous beasts of Dan.7 are wrapped up into this final one for the end of this world.

Going any further than that with that lion symbol is mere speculation outside the Scriptures.

Douggg · Mar 12, 2020

Davy said:
It just says his mouth is 'AS' the mouth of a lion. The lion symbol is simply being used like it was in the Book of Daniel. It doesn't tell you 'where' the mouth is located, it just says it has a 'mouth' AS a lion. That symbol is being used to show 'how' it destroys. God used it in several OT examples. It's a symbol also back in the Rev.9 Chapter about the locust army with how it attacks, like teeth of a lion.

I am just asking you where you think the mouth (as a lion) was located on the beast? The beast had 7 heads.

I am not asking you what it symbolizes.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Davy · Mar 12, 2020

Douggg said:
I am just asking you where you think the mouth (as a lion) was located on the beast? The beast had 7 heads.

I am not asking you what it symbolizes.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

The Revelation 13:2 Scripture says it has a mouth AS a lion. That's all it says. So I'm not going to play speculation games with you. I don't like movies like Fantastic Beasts either. God doesn't do monsters, He only presents symbols of natural things in His creation. It takes a Hollywood mentality to think up fantastic monsters from His Word.

Douggg · Mar 12, 2020

Davy said:
The Revelation 13:2 Scripture says it has a mouth AS a lion. That's all it says. So I'm not going to play speculation games with you. I don't like movies like Fantastic Beasts either. God doesn't do monsters, He only presents symbols of natural things in His creation. It takes a Hollywood mentality to think up fantastic monsters from His Word.

The beast has 7 heads, but the is only one mouth like a lion. The mouth like a lion is on one head. Can you at least admit that point?

Davy · Mar 12, 2020

Douggg said:
The beast has 7 heads, but the is only one mouth like a lion. The mouth like a lion is on one head. Can you at least admit that point?

Nah, no time for Fantastic Beasts.

Douggg · Mar 12, 2020

Davy said:
Nah, no time for Fantastic Beasts.

Do you believe that John saw a beast coming out of the sea which had a mouth like a lion?

Davy · Mar 13, 2020

Douggg said:
The beast has 7 heads, but the is only one mouth like a lion. The mouth like a lion is on one head. Can you at least admit that point?

Can you admit that the red dragon of Revelation 12:3-4 also involved a beast that had "seven heads", and that one was when that dragon drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him, which was about Satan's original rebellion of old?

You see, the "seven heads" attribute of the 1st beast existed in "the world that was" when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne. That means before... any historical king or kingdom from the Book of Daniel. It also means we cannot just slap identities on those "seven heads" like Rome, or the EU, Brussels, New York, etc.

Douggg · Mar 13, 2020

Davy said:
Can you admit that the red dragon of Revelation 12:3-4 also involved a beast that had "seven heads", and that one was when that dragon drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him, which was about Satan's original rebellion of old?

The red dragon represents Satan. As does the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17. The first five verses of Revelation 17 are historical even to John to identify the woman as Israel. The remainder of the vision is for the 7 years forthcoming.

Satan is the power behind the beast, which that disembodied spirit now in the bottomless pit does not come out to possess the end times person, until there are 42 months left in the 7 years, in Revelation 13.

Therefore, Satan is appears in the visions of both Revelation 12 and Revelation 17. But Satan is not the stand-in for the beast in Revelation 13, because the disembodied spirit has come out to possess the end times person (the little horn, the Antichrist, the revealed man of sin).

Douggg · Mar 13, 2020

Davy said:
You see, the "seven heads" attribute of the 1st beast existed in "the world that was" when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne. That means before... any historical king or kingdom from the Book of Daniel. It also means we cannot just slap identities on those "seven heads" like Rome, or the EU, Brussels, New York, etc.

When you talk about the "first beast", then you have to consider that vision is with 42 months left in the seven years.

There is only one head (of the seven heads) having the mouth like a lion, that does the evil speaking during the 42 months. That head is the mortally wounded, but healed head - the 7th king head - who is supposed continue the short space - the 42 months.

His kingdom will control the territories of the former kingdoms of Babylon, Medes-Persians, Greeks. The ten kings, the ten EU leaders. His kingdom the EU.

Davy · Mar 14, 2020

Douggg said:
The red dragon represents Satan. As does the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17. The first five verses of Revelation 17 are historical even to John to identify the woman as Israel. The remainder of the vision is for the 7 years forthcoming.

I don't see the scarlet colored beast representing Satan. In Revelation 17:3 we are told the scarlet colored beast has seven heads. That's the kingdom beast. The "woman", which is a "great city", sits upon that seven headed beast.

That Rev.17 chapter certainly is NOT historical, and the symbolic "woman" in that chapter we are told is a "great city" in the very last verse. So who have you been listening to?

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV

Satan is the power behind the beast, which that disembodied spirit now in the bottomless pit does not come out to possess the end times person, until there are 42 months left in the 7 years, in Revelation 13.

Yes, Satan is the power behind the kingdom beast. He isn't bound in the pit yet, that's just his heavenly abode when he's not walking about roaming seeking whom he might devour (1 Peter 5:8; Job 1). He isn't a disembodied spirit either, for disembodied suggests one who once inhabited a flesh body. Satan and the angels have never been born in a flesh body, never will. They don't need it to appear on earth (Luke 4; Genesis 19).

Revelation points directly to Satan as the dragon, and the one who ascends out of the bottomless pit that is an angel and king over that pit. He doesn't need some flesh man to do his miracles on earth for the end, as that is what the coming tribulation is going to especially be about, i.e., it will be Satan as the coming Antichrist and the majority of the world will 'wonder' who that is doing those miracles. They will be it is God.

Therefore, Satan is appears in the visions of both Revelation 12 and Revelation 17. But Satan is not the stand-in for the beast in Revelation 13, because the disembodied spirit has come out to possess the end times person (the little horn, the Antichrist, the revealed man of sin).

I'm afraid you really don't understand what it was that Satan did with his original rebellion against our Heavenly Father and His Son in the world that then was. God is going to allow Satan to come to our earth and try it for the end, which is why this next time the beast kingdom will have ten crowns instead of seven crowns like the one he first rebelled with in Revelation 12:3-4.

My latest chart (number 3)

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