Should We Teach Creation As Science In Public Schools?

Halbhh

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But He did tell us how old creation is!
That's really interesting. Where? Not in the Exodus verses about keeping the Sabbath, if you read with real listening to context.

Again, preaching an age of the Earth instead of admitting it is only a theory is replacing the Word of God with your own stuff.

It's very serious.
 
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nolidad

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If one's version of creationism (particular theories/doctrines) are more important to them than the Gospels -- as shown by what they most emphasize in their limited time and talking......

....during that limited brief time someone else will listen to them....

...during the only short time we have....

....then what are they really believing in the most?

A doctrine, instead of Christ Jesus as salvation???

It is not a doctrine to replace the death and REsurrection of Jesus for Salvation.

Every doctrine has its place and importance. Not all doctrines are soteriological. But the wise disciple will have his tool box loaded with the many tools needed to speak intelligently on the scriptures.

I have seen and heard of people being led to salvation by showing that an old earth is wrong! It does not replace the death and REsurrection of Jesus for our salvation. But it can have a place to help lead one to that place where we can introduce them to their Savior.

Every doctrine is important! We must learn where they belong in our discussions.
 
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nolidad

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That's really interesting. Where? Not in the Exodus verses about keeping the Sabbath, if you read with real listening to context.

Again, preaching an age of the Earth instead of admitting it is only a theory is replacing the Word of God with your own stuff.

It's very serious.

Well I agree with you! That is why I generally say the earth is approximately 6-10k years. To allow time for the forming of Adam and the Fall. But Genesis 1 is six consecutive days without any breaks! I will not be dogmatic about dates, and all responsible YEC scientists I study do not either. They know it falls outside the realm of the scientific method of validation. But we do know it is not bililons of years .
 
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nolidad

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No. No science supports it and the bible is not evidence that can be tested.

Actually alot of empirical science lends far more weight to the creation model of origins than to the BB/Evolutionary model of origins.

Because both models fall outside of observable time and they both cannot be repeated and observed- both models fall outside of science and must be accepted by faith by those who accept it!
 
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Halbhh

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I have seen and heard of people being led to salvation by showing that an old earth is wrong!
That directly contradicts the Words of Jesus our Savior in the 4 gospels -- "whoever does not gather with me scatters."

They might be 'converted' to Young Earth Creationism, but only if they hear the saving Good News of Jesus Christ can they be converted to true faith in Christ.

To learn how to convert to true faith in Christ, I will listen to Christ, such as in Mark chapter 4.

Not to a theory about the age of the Earth.

 
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nolidad

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That directly contradicts the Words of Jesus our Savior in the 4 gospels -- "whoever does not gather with me scatters."

They might be 'converted' to Young Earth Creationism, but only if they hear the saving Good News of Jesus Christ can they be converted to true faith in Christ.

To learn how to convert to true faith in Christ, I will listen to Christ, such as in Mark chapter 4.

Not to a theory about the age of the Earth.

YOu are totally misunderstand what I am saying. Teaching YEC does not lead a person to salvation, but it can lead to one being open to hear the gospel.

Maybe you should study Pauls MArs Hill discourse in Acts 17. We use what is presented to us to get to teh gospel. As Paul said "to the Jews I became as a Jew, to the greeks as a greek to the romans as a roman in order that I may save some.

There are untold legions of ways of conversing with people to leads them to the gospel. With some you can go right to he gospel, with many others, you need to low up the ground of their heart and show why what they believe is false so they may recieve the truth!
 
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High Fidelity

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Actually alot of empirical science lends far more weight to the creation model of origins than to the BB/Evolutionary model of origins.

Because both models fall outside of observable time and they both cannot be repeated and observed- both models fall outside of science and must be accepted by faith by those who accept it!

And yet remnants of history paint a very clear picture for evolution.

Nothing, other than religious texts, points to creation.
 
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Halbhh

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Maybe you should study Pauls MArs Hill discourse in Acts 17. We use what is presented to us to get to teh gospel. As Paul said "to the Jews I became as a Jew, to the greeks as a greek to the romans as a roman in order that I may save some.
This is key good advice! Are you applying it? I bet not all the time you may think, because this is the internet, and there are many that read what you post on YEC out there (dozens over time) without ever responding. See?

They read and reach conclusions, and you never hear from them.

They hear from YEC preachers the idea that gets translated as: "the Earth must be young for the Bible to be true, for God to be real."

And conclude the Bible is false, since they've learned that the Earth is old.

They've been blocked from the Good News.

By the doctrine of Young Earth Creationism carelessly spread on the internet.
 
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JackRT

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Actually alot of empirical science lends far more weight to the creation model of origins than to the BB/Evolutionary model of origins.

Because both models fall outside of observable time and they both cannot be repeated and observed- both models fall outside of science and must be accepted by faith by those who accept it!

You repeatedly make statements that have little to no basis in fact. Here are some facts:

Claim:

“Many scientists reject evolution and support creationism.” --- Morris, Henry. 1980. The ICR scientists. Impact 86 (Aug.). *http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=163

Response:

Of the scientists and engineers in the United States, only about 5% are creationists, according to a 1991 Gallup poll (Robinson 1995, Witham 1997). However, this number includes those working in fields not related to life origins (such as computer scientists, mechanical engineers, etc.). Taking into account only those working in the relevant fields of earth and life sciences, there are about 480,000 scientists, but only about 700 believe in "creation-science" or consider it a valid theory (Robinson 1995). This means that less than 0.15 percent of relevant scientists believe in creationism. And that is just in the United States, which has more creationists than any other industrialized country. In other countries, the number of relevant scientists who accept creationism drops to less than one tenth of 1 percent.

Additionally, many scientific organizations believe the evidence so strongly that they have issued public statements to that effect (NCSEd). The National Academy of Sciences, one of the most prestigious science organizations, devotes a Web site to the topic (NAS 1999). A panel of seventy-two Nobel Laureates, seventeen state academies of science, and seven other scientific organizations created an amicus curiae brief which they submitted to the Supreme Court (Edwards v. Aguillard 1986). This report clarified what makes science different from religion and why creationism is not science.


One needs to examine not how many scientists and professors believe something, but what their conviction is based upon. Most of those who reject evolution do so because of personal religious conviction, not because of evidence. The evidence supports evolution. And the evidence, not personal authority, is what objective conclusions should be based on.

Often, claims that scientists reject evolution or support creationism are exaggerated or fraudulent. Many scientists doubt some aspects of evolution, especially recent hypotheses about it. All good scientists are skeptical about evolution (and everything else) and open to the possibility, however remote, that serious challenges to it may appear. Creationists frequently seize such expressions of healthy skepticism to imply that evolution is highly questionable. They fail to understand that the fact that evolution has withstood many years of such questioning really means it is about as certain as facts can get.
 
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nolidad

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And yet remnants of history paint a very clear picture for evolution.

Nothing, other than religious texts, points to creation.

Well then I await some examples of those "remnants of history"

Then we can discuss how clear a picture they do or do not paint.
 
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nolidad

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This is key good advice! Are you applying it? I bet not all the time you may think, because this is the internet, and there are many that read what you post on YEC out there (dozens over time) without ever responding. See?

They read and reach conclusions, and you never hear from them.

They hear from YEC preachers the idea that gets translated as: "the Earth must be young for the Bible to be true, for God to be real."

And conclude the Bible is false, since they've learned that the Earth is old.

They've been blocked from the Good News.

By the doctrine of Young Earth Creationism carelessly spread on the internet.

Well we are not responsible for what people choose to believe or how they decide to interpret words we say! Have I been perfect in all my presentations? Hah! If I had a nickel for every mistake.....!

If one is to be saved they will be saved.

Gods honors our faith- even if it manifests itself in less than a perfect presentation! For some we are plowing up hardened ground (ripping up old foundations that colors their world view) for others we are planting seeds, for others we water, and every once in a while we are blessed to be used to harves a soul God has made ready for salvation.

Jesus is always the goal of my discussions with unbelievers, but with some we must crack their foundational world view to open the way for th egospel to be implanted. I can't tell you how it all works- I just know it works.

Our job is to learn to discern how we must apporach one to get th e gospel presented to them. It is far more than just tell them about Jesus!
 
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Halbhh

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Well we are not responsible for what people choose to believe or how they decide to interpret words we say! Have I been perfect in all my presentations? Hah! If I had a nickel for every mistake.....!

If one is to be saved they will be saved.

Gods honors our faith- even if it manifests itself in less than a perfect presentation! For some we are plowing up hardened ground (ripping up old foundations that colors their world view) for others we are planting seeds, for others we water, and every once in a while we are blessed to be used to harves a soul God has made ready for salvation.

Jesus is always the goal of my discussions with unbelievers, but with some we must crack their foundational world view to open the way for th egospel to be implanted. I can't tell you how it all works- I just know it works.

Our job is to learn to discern how we must apporach one to get th e gospel presented to them. It is far more than just tell them about Jesus!
Well, here is the most often used accusation against the Bible:

The false idea that God is cruel in the Old Testament, and kills innocent people.

There's one to work to combat with the real, full stories with full context from the Old Testament, where God is slow to anger, but won't let evils such as this kind go on forever without ending them:

29 “When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, 30 take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ 31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the LORD hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods."
Deuteronomy 12 ESV

This is one example of many key missing pieces that more people need to hear, to combat the widespread false idea that God kills innocent people for no good reason. They also need to hear that for humans, 'death' is only 'sleep', and all will be waken from that sleep!

This would help against the far more common misconception that really is the hard ground or block more people have out there.
 
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nolidad

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You repeatedly make statements that have little to no basis in fact. Here are some facts:

Claim:

“Many scientists reject evolution and support creationism.” --- Morris, Henry. 1980. The ICR scientists. Impact 86 (Aug.). *http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=163

Response:

Of the scientists and engineers in the United States, only about 5% are creationists, according to a 1991 Gallup poll (Robinson 1995, Witham 1997). However, this number includes those working in fields not related to life origins (such as computer scientists, mechanical engineers, etc.). Taking into account only those working in the relevant fields of earth and life sciences, there are about 480,000 scientists, but only about 700 believe in "creation-science" or consider it a valid theory (Robinson 1995). This means that less than 0.15 percent of relevant scientists believe in creationism. And that is just in the United States, which has more creationists than any other industrialized country. In other countries, the number of relevant scientists who accept creationism drops to less than one tenth of 1 percent.

Additionally, many scientific organizations believe the evidence so strongly that they have issued public statements to that effect (NCSEd). The National Academy of Sciences, one of the most prestigious science organizations, devotes a Web site to the topic (NAS 1999). A panel of seventy-two Nobel Laureates, seventeen state academies of science, and seven other scientific organizations created an amicus curiae brief which they submitted to the Supreme Court (Edwards v. Aguillard 1986). This report clarified what makes science different from religion and why creationism is not science.

One needs to examine not how many scientists and professors believe something, but what their conviction is based upon. Most of those who reject evolution do so because of personal religious conviction, not because of evidence. The evidence supports evolution. And the evidence, not personal authority, is what objective conclusions should be based on.

Often, claims that scientists reject evolution or support creationism are exaggerated or fraudulent. Many scientists doubt some aspects of evolution, especially recent hypotheses about it. All good scientists are skeptical about evolution (and everything else) and open to the possibility, however remote, that serious challenges to it may appear. Creationists frequently seize such expressions of healthy skepticism to imply that evolution is highly questionable. They fail to understand that the fact that evolution has withstood many years of such questioning really means it is about as certain as facts can get.

First off many scientists do believe in YEC. I full agree that the % is small in total to all scientists.

But remember this, if one has been indoctrinated since a little child than man came from apes- they will believe that! If they go into science fields, they will view the evidence that both evolutionists and creationists see and go-"see, proof for evolution!"

And sorry but nearly all YEC Scientists accept creation based on the evidence! Th edirty little secret secular science does not like to reveal is, most YEC scientists were staunch BB/evolutionists who defected because of their research!

I can give you one fact and show you why evolution could not occur even if given 200 trillion billion years!!!! One fact, but the discussion will get lengthy staying on that one simple fact if you dare!
 
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nolidad

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Well, here is the most often used accusation against the Bible:

The false idea that God is cruel in the Old Testament, and kills innocent people.

There's one to work to combat with the real, full stories with full context from the Old Testament, where God is slow to anger, but won't let evils such as this kind go on forever without ending them:

29 “When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, 30 take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ 31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the LORD hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods."
Deuteronomy 12 ESV

This is one example of many key missing pieces that more people need to hear, to combat the widespread false idea that God kills innocent people for no good reason. They also need to hear that for humans, 'death' is only 'sleep', and all will be waken from that sleep!

This would help against the far more common misconception that really is the hard ground or block more people have out there.

Absolutely true! For in the eyes of God all are guilty. All belong to God and He has the absolute right to do as He wishes.
 
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Halbhh

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Absolutely true! For in the eyes of God all are guilty. All belong to God and He has the absolute right to do as He wishes.
People need to hear the truth that God is Just and Fair and Impartial ( all from wonderful Bible verses/passages), and not 'cruel'. It's not enough to only say He can do whatever He wants (true, but not the full picture, not the whole truth).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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per creation - simply teach the truth - teach creation to your children. Not "as science", but as God's Word, Way, and Plan. Simple and Truth.

The babylons and persians and other religions did not serve Yahweh. Today they don't either. So other schools teach what they want. Believers teach their own children what Yahweh Says, by grace and faith in Jesus.
 
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summerville

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Well He didn't bother to tell us how long from day 6 when He formed Adam untilt the fall so that is not relavent to us. But He did tell us how old creation is!

And speaking of the young earth god created is one of many tools a disciple should be trained in to speak to those who wish to know the reason for the hope within us.

Many wish to put a gap between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2 because they think that secular science has a valid age of the earth and universe. They don't. To even entertain the thought of even theistic evolution, denies many many doctrines taught by Jesus and the apostles and nullifies the reason of Jesus death!.

The Bible absolutely teaches six days from Gen1:1 till the end of chptr. one. We should as well. There is no inconsistency with the grammar of genesis one verse one and two.

If Christian parents want their children taught creation science, they should do that in Sunday School.. Its the perfect venue.

Hard science, biology, chemistry etc is very demanding.. The public schools hours should concentrate on that. I am assuming that some Christian private schools also teach creation science so there is also that option. I went to a private religious girl's school that is almost 200 years old and they don't teach creation science. They do offer Bible as an elective.
 
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jamesbond007

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Absolutely NOT.. The US has already fallen behind in math and science because of the nincompoop young earth creationists.. Its so easy to be stupid..Pseudo science is sooooo easy.

This is faulty thinking. Creationism isn't being taught in schools anymore; It's evolution.
 
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