Catch-22; Bitter Christian edition

theoneandonlypencil · Mar 10, 2020

I've come to a very odd situation in life, where it seems as though I feel very..out of place.

On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

It's getting a little tiring. For me, I already have issues with getting heated and becoming particularly rude myself when butting heads with those who prove to be extra stubborn(as my post history shows). I truly hate it and it's not at all helpful since I'm trying to be less volatile in debates but MAN do both sides know what exactly to say/do just to get under my skin.

Obviously I've met many fantastic atheists and Christians alike, but at this point, it is starting to feel like the bad apples might outweigh the good ones in my own little personal experiences.

I just want knowledge and wisdom. I don't want to follow either mainstream beliefs--either atheistic or Christian--as I've learned the flaws of both, and don't agree with them. Yet sometimes, I wonder; what's the point in having any of this knowledge, when it feels like I'm just perpetually stuck in the middle?

EDIT: Just realized this could cause misunderstandings; by not following certain Christian 'beliefs', in this context I am specifically talking about doctrines. Not Christianity itself.

Peter J Barban · Mar 10, 2020

Fellowship is a very important part of faith. In general, if your views are too unique, they probably have major flaws and you will be alone and angry much of the time.

Christ said to judge a tree by its fruit (that includes your own fruit as well). God's people should have the best fruit in the world.

Therefore, I suggest that you find a group of people that you admire and fellowship with them. That would include adopting most of their views on God and Christian life.

HARK! · Mar 10, 2020

If YHWH has given you any truth; it was not for you to put it under a basket. It was not to go into your closet and pray about it alone. We are to share it. If it is not received; wipe the dust from your feet and move on to those who will hear you.

I've found that the closer I get to YHWH's truth, the fewer people I have who I can call associates. Perhaps that is all part of YHWH preparing me for the narrow gate.

Don't get frustrated. You can't change anyone. That's YHWH's job. You're just here to serve him.

SarahsKnight · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

Boy when it comes to how both many atheists and other Christians seem to act in my mind, this part of your OP just .... speaks to me.

Need answers · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
I've come to a very odd situation in life, where it seems as though I feel very..out of place.

On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

It's getting a little tiring. For me, I already have issues with getting heated and becoming particularly rude myself when butting heads with those who prove to be extra stubborn(as my post history shows). I truly hate it and it's not at all helpful since I'm trying to be less volatile in debates but MAN do both sides know what exactly to say/do just to get under my skin.

Obviously I've met many fantastic atheists and Christians alike, but at this point, it is starting to feel like the bad apples might outweigh the good ones in my own little personal experiences.

I just want knowledge and wisdom. I don't want to follow either mainstream beliefs--either atheistic or Christian--as I've learned the flaws of both, and don't agree with them. Yet sometimes, I wonder; what's the point in having any of this knowledge, when it feels like I'm just perpetually stuck in the middle?

EDIT: Just realized this could cause misunderstandings; by not following certain Christian 'beliefs', in this context I am specifically talking about doctrines. Not Christianity itself.

Just wondering, what mainstream beliefs do you disagree with? Im not mainstream either. I dont believe in teachers because they all teach flawed doctrine in my opinion. I think i can do as good of job as them just by debating and learning scripture. This of course opens me up to criticism. People quote scripture about obeying and submitting to leaders, and not forsaking the assembly, but somehow i dont think that following and submitting to flawed partisan teachers is what the apostles had in mind with those scriptures.

Peter J Barban · Mar 10, 2020

Need answers said:
Just wondering, what mainstream beliefs do you disagree with? Im not mainstream either. I dont believe in teachers because they all teach flawed doctrine in my opinion. I think i can do as good of job as them just by debating and learning scripture. This of course opens me up to criticism. People quote scripture about obeying and submitting to leaders, and not forsaking the assembly, but somehow i dont think that following and submitting to flawed partisan teachers is what the apostles had in mind with those scriptures.

As a long time Bible teacher, I take offense to that accusation!

Need answers · Mar 10, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
As a long time Bible teacher, I take offense to that accusation!

No offense intended, but i doubt your doctrine is perfect.

mmksparbud · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
I've come to a very odd situation in life, where it seems as though I feel very..out of place.

On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

It's getting a little tiring. For me, I already have issues with getting heated and becoming particularly rude myself when butting heads with those who prove to be extra stubborn(as my post history shows). I truly hate it and it's not at all helpful since I'm trying to be less volatile in debates but MAN do both sides know what exactly to say/do just to get under my skin.

Obviously I've met many fantastic atheists and Christians alike, but at this point, it is starting to feel like the bad apples might outweigh the good ones in my own little personal experiences.

I just want knowledge and wisdom. I don't want to follow either mainstream beliefs--either atheistic or Christian--as I've learned the flaws of both, and don't agree with them. Yet sometimes, I wonder; what's the point in having any of this knowledge, when it feels like I'm just perpetually stuck in the middle?

EDIT: Just realized this could cause misunderstandings; by not following certain Christian 'beliefs', in this context I am specifically talking about doctrines. Not Christianity itself.

We must be careful about interpreting the bible without the aide of the Holy Spirit or the teachings of others. Sometimes it is wiser to listen to what other Christians say about a topic, then research it for yourself in the bible using several translations. It must be done prayerfully. What you think is truth, might not be. And what others think is truth---may very well be. Take your questions to the Lord and then pay attention to what He has to say through the Holy Spirit in His word. Present your questions to Him one at a time and don't move on to the next until you are sure of that answer.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Psa_111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pro_2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

We do not enter into His kingdom according to how much we know, but how well we know Him. It is our relationship to Him that gives us His character. The closer to Him, the closer to truth, for He is truth.

Need answers · Mar 10, 2020

The understanding that your doctrine may be flawed, this flows from wisdom. Blindly accepting what others have to say is unwise, in my humbled opinion.

Peter J Barban · Mar 10, 2020

Need answers said:
No offense intended, but i doubt your doctrine is perfect.

If your standard is perfection, then we are all useless. I suggest you settle for teaching that produces good fruit.
Literally find a teacher that has students/followers whom you respect, then become like them.

athenken · Mar 10, 2020

Iron sharpens Iron. We are not meant to go through this on our own. At the very least you should be attending a church that preaches the full counsel of God. Additionally, it is also good to be involved in small groups where you can examine the scriptures together in order to prayerfully come to a better understanding of God's Truth.

public hermit · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
I've come to a very odd situation in life, where it seems as though I feel very..out of place.

On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

It's getting a little tiring. For me, I already have issues with getting heated and becoming particularly rude myself when butting heads with those who prove to be extra stubborn(as my post history shows). I truly hate it and it's not at all helpful since I'm trying to be less volatile in debates but MAN do both sides know what exactly to say/do just to get under my skin.

Obviously I've met many fantastic atheists and Christians alike, but at this point, it is starting to feel like the bad apples might outweigh the good ones in my own little personal experiences.

I just want knowledge and wisdom. I don't want to follow either mainstream beliefs--either atheistic or Christian--as I've learned the flaws of both, and don't agree with them. Yet sometimes, I wonder; what's the point in having any of this knowledge, when it feels like I'm just perpetually stuck in the middle?

EDIT: Just realized this could cause misunderstandings; by not following certain Christian 'beliefs', in this context I am specifically talking about doctrines. Not Christianity itself.

'Fundamentalists' come in all shapes and sizes, both theistic and atheistic. Epistemic humility and generosity in debate are rare. Most people have a hard time acknowledging to themselves that they can both believe something is true while also believing they could possibly be wrong about that which they believe is true. It is a sign of insecurity about one's own fallibility that doesn't allow another to believe differently in peace.

You have a gift, a humility that doesn't assume you know what you don't. You are willing to question and explore. If you have one, two, or a few friends who will explore with you, without judgment, then there is not much more to expect. The masses will always seek comfort over humility. And those who think differently are a threat. That's one reason they killed both Socrates and Jesus.

Need answers · Mar 10, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
If your standard is perfection, then we are all useless. I suggest you settle for teaching that produces good fruit.
Literally find a teacher that has students/followers whom you respect, then become like them.

Not perfection, but not error either. If i follow a faction or denomination i will only end up following errors built on other errors. Many churches are just reiterating leftovers from Catholicism, a religion i disagree with. Others are more modern but teach error in my opinion, such as Word Of Faith for example. Religion to me should be simple. Keeping myself unspotted by the world and feeding widows and orphans. Not too complicated to understand, its harder to do though i guess. Its not about learning more, its about doing. Be a doer of the word, and keep it simple, in my opinion.

Need answers · Mar 10, 2020

I need to bow out, i dont want to derail. Have a nice day folks.

summerville · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
I've come to a very odd situation in life, where it seems as though I feel very..out of place.

On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

It's getting a little tiring. For me, I already have issues with getting heated and becoming particularly rude myself when butting heads with those who prove to be extra stubborn(as my post history shows). I truly hate it and it's not at all helpful since I'm trying to be less volatile in debates but MAN do both sides know what exactly to say/do just to get under my skin.

Obviously I've met many fantastic atheists and Christians alike, but at this point, it is starting to feel like the bad apples might outweigh the good ones in my own little personal experiences.

I just want knowledge and wisdom. I don't want to follow either mainstream beliefs--either atheistic or Christian--as I've learned the flaws of both, and don't agree with them. Yet sometimes, I wonder; what's the point in having any of this knowledge, when it feels like I'm just perpetually stuck in the middle?

EDIT: Just realized this could cause misunderstandings; by not following certain Christian 'beliefs', in this context I am specifically talking about doctrines. Not Christianity itself.

Why not just live your life? You may find that people will ASK why you are so happy or serene or productive or whatever..

I wouldn't discuss religion with anyone if it was like butting heads.

And, there are people who can discuss differences in beliefs in a very matter of fact, non threatened manner.

Just a thought.

Dave-W · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views.

I get that. I went thru the same process about 30 years ago. It ended with me in Messianic Judaism instead of mainstream gentile Christianity.

Shrewd Manager · Mar 10, 2020

My friend, try being a universalist, flat earther and erm debunker of myth and magic. May be simpler to just volunteer as a pin-cushion.

Albion · Mar 10, 2020

Theoneandonlypencil--

In my own life and it sounds like its also true for you, it's basically a matter of choosing your friends.

Some atheists, some Christians, some whatevers are the way you describe...but some of all of those group are not, so we just have to pick whom we associate with.

theoneandonlypencil · Mar 10, 2020

Oh boy--there's a lot of replies, so I'm sorry if I can't get to them all!

Thank you for all of the advice. It's nice to get this off of my chest, and I will keep all of your words in mind<3

Halbhh · Mar 10, 2020

theoneandonlypencil said:
I've come to a very odd situation in life, where it seems as though I feel very..out of place.

On one hand, atheists, while I've met a lot of nice ones, seem to come in one of two flavors when they enter my life; 1) they vehemently dislike my beliefs and try to debate me all the time 2) they say they don't dislike my beliefs, but I also can't talk about it around them or politely stop them from making rude/condescending jokes and remarks about Christianity without starting something

On the other hand, ever since I started questioning my faith and digging deeper for the truth to get close to God, a lot of super-religious Christians seem to dislike me strictly because of my doctrinal views. I seem to have a knack for running into the most judgemental and, pardon me, 'arrogant' types frequently. Those who simply cannot rest until they let me know just how wrong I am and how un-Chrisitan my views are. I feel like if I'm not part of the mainstream set of beliefs, I'm being scrutinized as a potential heretic.

It's getting a little tiring. For me, I already have issues with getting heated and becoming particularly rude myself when butting heads with those who prove to be extra stubborn(as my post history shows). I truly hate it and it's not at all helpful since I'm trying to be less volatile in debates but MAN do both sides know what exactly to say/do just to get under my skin.

Obviously I've met many fantastic atheists and Christians alike, but at this point, it is starting to feel like the bad apples might outweigh the good ones in my own little personal experiences.

I just want knowledge and wisdom. I don't want to follow either mainstream beliefs--either atheistic or Christian--as I've learned the flaws of both, and don't agree with them. Yet sometimes, I wonder; what's the point in having any of this knowledge, when it feels like I'm just perpetually stuck in the middle?

EDIT: Just realized this could cause misunderstandings; by not following certain Christian 'beliefs', in this context I am specifically talking about doctrines. Not Christianity itself.

Consider: people that love to argue do go on the internet also, and look for someone to argue with, so that's a common hazard to all of us.

There is profound help though -- to begin to pray the prayer Christ gave us to aid us each day, in Matthew chapter 6. Pray with faith, knowing you are praying a perfect prayer Christ gave for you to pray.

I'm testifying to you that it works!

Catch-22; Bitter Christian edition

Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

Well-Known Member

שמע

Jesus Christ is this Knight's truth.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Barbary pirates? Or are they?

social troglodyte

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Facilitator

Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

Everything You say is Life to me

Similar threads