Narrow is the gate and few who find it...Calvinistic?

Hey, if I'm elect and you're not, I just can't help it.

God is omnipresent--He can see who will choose what, and base His decisions according to what He knows we, with our free will, shall do.

Romans 8 said:

If God already knows few will find the narrow gate, is it because He created them this way?

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Hello Romans 8, speaking as a former Arminian, I used to believe that God looked down from everlasting (though a tunnel in time, I guess you could say) to see the choice that each one of us makes in regard to the Gospel, and that He then chooses or rejects us based upon our free will choice of or rejection of Him.

I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for, but I hope you find it useful if it is.

God bless you!

--David

edit: To answer your question directly, "no", God did not create anyone that way. He created our race/our progenitors "upright" .. Ecclesiastes 7:29, and in His very "image" .. Genesis 1:26-27, but our first parents fell into sin, and we received their tarnished/fallen nature instead as their begotten progeny.

Romans 8 said:

Matthew 7:13–14, Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

If God already knows few will find the narrow gate, is it because He created them this way? It says in the bible that we all have the choice to choose Jesus, but God knows His creation I guess. So given that, are we the lucky ones that got an extra dose of desire for kinship with Him? I am not a Calvinist but it seems as though there is some mystery which points towards Calvinistic ideology when one ponders these things. Any thoughts?

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Jesus said He is the only way to the father (John 14:6). That He is the door and that the Father gives Him the sheep and they will never perish (John 10:9-16).

We can look at Ephesians for the beauty of a Sovereign God Who chooses according to His Will and purposes.

Ephesians 2: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Romans 8 said:

"If God already knows few will find the narrow gate, is it because He created them this way?

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No.

Romans 8 said:

So given that, are we the lucky ones that got an extra dose of desire for kinship with Him?

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It is not a "given" at all as presented.
i.e. No.

Romans 8 said:

Any thoughts?

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If something entirely does not contradict any Scripture,
and if it is entirely in harmony with all Scripture, as Revealed by Yahweh the Creator,
then keep on seeking the truth , every day.

If any part of something contradicts any Scripture, or is not totally in harmony with all of God's Word, Plan and Purpose , then keep on seeking the truth, every day.

Romans 8 said:

Matthew 7:13–14, Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

If God already knows few will find the narrow gate, is it because He created them this way? It says in the bible that we all have the choice to choose Jesus, but God knows His creation I guess. So given that, are we the lucky ones that got an extra dose of desire for kinship with Him? I am not a Calvinist but it seems as though there is some mystery which points towards Calvinistic ideology when one ponders these things. Any thoughts?

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When Jesus said it, there was no such thing as the Calvinist theology doctrine.

What leads to life is the Spirit of God. The more disciplined your life, the greater amount of spiritual influence you live by.

The less of that, means the more life that is lived in the flesh and life by natural worldly influence.

That was all that Jesus meant. He also said. My words are spirit and life. The flesh profits nothing.

So few find the narrow life lived by the Spirit is because it takes time for the Christian who's used to living by the flesh to discipline enough to trim off the fat in order to find the true leading of God by His Spirit. Most every Christian thinks that all you have to do is be saved to have found the narrow gate. But if that were true then the Christians that Paul called babes in Christ for being mostly carnal-fleshly should have been a mistake on his part.

Romans 8 said:

If God already knows few will find the narrow gate, is it because He created them this way?

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That is why many believe Calvinism is slander against the character of God.

If everything is predetermined, then why must we "find" anything? It's going to happen, no matter what. Why all the exhortations and admonitions? Why is stewardship so important? Without the power of real choice, personhood and relationship become meaningless.

God's will is that we partner with Him, so that we grow into mature Christian character. To do that, we must voluntarily cooperate with His leading, as co-laborers.

And yes, I should know better than to get involved in these discussions.

paul1149 said:

That is why many believe Calvinism is slander against the character of God.

If everything is predetermined, then why must we "find" anything? It's going to happen, no matter what. Why all the exhortations and admonitions? Why is stewardship so important? Without the power of real choice, personhood and relationship become meaningless.

God's will is that we partner with Him, so that we grow into mature Christian character. To do that, we must voluntarily cooperate with His leading, as co-laborers.

And yes, I should know better than to get involved in these discussions.

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God does not predestined everything. He predestined His elect sheep to be conformed to the image of the Son. No man seeks God by themselves.
so God has chosen to have the Son seek his elect
sheep by the Spirit.He seeks and saves everyone of them,as He is not willing that any perish.

Romans 8 said:

What makes us different from non-believers that we choose Jesus and seek truth?

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That's a deep question, and we see through a dark glass. If you look at the end of Romans 1, there is an interactive process whereby men choose evil, and God then "gives them up". That's how I see the experience leading the other way, to God, as well. If we are faithful to the little light we have, more is given. I know this is true of my own Christian walk. When I humble myself and take the time to focus and pray, I get the revelation I need to move forward. Sometimes life has to break us before we are willing to do that. As Paul says when he wraps up his discourse on the Jews, "how unsearchable are His ways".

So God definitely does get the final call, each and every time. But on our side we must be willing. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, because they were not.

Romans 8 said:

What makes us different from non-believers that we choose Jesus and seek truth?

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Hello again Romans 8, I used to think it all boiled down to my boyish good looks. Now, I'm not so sure

Returning now to a more serious kind of reply , I believe your question is the one that haunted me the most as I thought about salvation from my former Arminian/Free Will POV. I mean, there were/are SO many of my friends, family members and associates who were/are FAR more deserving than I could ever hope to be, and that in so many ways, but I said yes to living out eternity in blissful joy with God, while others (who were better people than me in almost every way imaginable), said yes to eternal darkness, to eternal torment and pain, to a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth that is forever void of the love of God, and that for no good reason that I could see!!

So I began to wonder back then (as you seem to be doing now) .. WHY Why did 'I' choose the bliss and joy of Heaven, while 'they' (who COULD have chosen the very same thing that I did, according to my Arminian/free will soteriology anyway) did not

I thought that they were not able to make a fully informed choice perhaps, but if that's true, how can that possibly be considered a true, "free will choice"? For instance, why would anyone choose to drink a glass of cyanide if they could just as easily choose to drink a chocolate milkshake instead (unless they were not mentally sound, or they were suicidal, or they were not fully informed about the choices that they had/could make, etc.)?

There is also the business of environment, like the environment a person is raised in. Whose kids do you believe stood a better chance of becoming Christians, the children of Billy Graham, or the children of the Osama Bin Laden?

I could go on and one, but I'll stop now Perhaps one of our free will believers (like @paul1149, who knew better than to post in this thread .. but then freely chose to do so anyway .. of course, so did I) will help us by telling us what they believe about such things, IOW, why some choose to believe while others do not (especially if God has made choosing to believe in Him equally possible for ~all~)?

Thanks!

--David

Theres so much more to what Christ was saying. Always taken it to be about this life.. He said I come to give you life. We tend to put things of the word together that .. He never said. Never said.. who so ever beleives John 11 26 Or For God so loved the world He gave His only son that who so ever...john 3 16. Then says "oh by they way... few will find believe/find it. Its the narrow road"

And the "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"<---granted.. they have to hear 1st.

I try not to label what some believe to some group. The fact that Christ said what GOD told Him.. take this world to the WORLD. To ever creature. Everyone gets a choice. There is no yesterday no future with God. Its always right now. Its what you say and do NOW.

Romans 8 said:

...many are born with a desire for destruction while few are born with a heart of flesh.

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Hi Romans 8, where does the Bible tell us that any were ever born with a "heart of flesh"? (save Jesus, of course) The Bible does tell us that all (w/o exception) are, by nature (born), children of wrath .. e.g. Ephesians 2:1-3, yes?

For the sake of the discussion, here is one of the passages that talks about a "heart of flesh".


Thanks!

--David
p.s. - this is a passage that might be worth considering as well.

Romans 8 said:

What makes us different from non-believers that we choose Jesus and seek truth?

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What makes a child of God different?

They are born again by the Grace of God. Nothing we do lest we boast (Ephesians 2:8-10).

I guess your question also involves how one is born again.

The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” (John 3:8).

Romans 8 said:

Yes great point. There are about 2 billion Muslims in the world, and just over 2 billion Christians. How many of each would we project to accept Jesus? It seems an unfair playing field. How do we filter these kinds of odds?

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I invite you to review Ezekiel 36:22-27
Ezekiel 36 NASB

Most agree this is an early promise of the New Covenant. Notice all the “I will” statements and Who is declaring them and why He is doing it.

Also consider Jeremiah 31:31-34
Jeremiah 31 NASB

Again God is acting or initiating first.

After reviewing this go back to Ephesians 1:3-14 where the Apostle Paul declares the actions of God in choosing, sealing and blessing. Ephesians 1 NASB

Then Ephesians 2:1-10 shows our salvation is God’s mercy and grace. This chapter shows we are dead in our trespasses and sins and God makes us alive in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2 NASB

That kind of changes things. If we are spiritually dead how can we choose? God must make us alive for us to make any response to Him.

These passages led me to humility. In fact fear and trembling because God redeeming me, saving me could not be accomplished until He acted. Why because I was dead and the dead do not respond.