America founded as a "Christian Nation"

timothyu said:

Hence their influence was greater than any label of Christianity.

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Only to those who want it to be true. People have wanted God out of their lives since the fall of man, and will always try to enact that end. How quickly you size upon confirmation bias to reject every sworn official swears an oath on the christian bible to the christian God? Why is that? How is it our founding fathers decided it would be the christian faith used for oaths?

They did not frame rights given by the masonic lodge as inalienable. They referred to a God, and creator.

HARK! said:

It's not proof; but it's evidence that that many Americans dismiss our rich cultural heritage of embracing the righteousness of YHWH; as they slip into the immorality of Godlessness. Wouldn't you agree?

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Nope.

HARK! said:

Then how would you explain this dichotomy?

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Your house resolution does not explain a dichotomy.

HARK! said:

I asked you to explain the dichotomy.

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Evidently, you seem to think there is a dichotomy in the failed HR.

I don't, and yet you want me to explain the dichotomy.

HARK! said:

You said that you don't agree with this statement:

"It's not proof; but it's evidence that that many Americans dismiss our rich cultural heritage of embracing the righteousness of YHWH; as they slip into the immorality of Godlessness. Wouldn't you agree?"

So I asked you to explain your understanding of this dichotomy.

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1) I don't agree with your statement.
2) You made up the "fact" there is a dichotomy with me not agreeing with your statement.
3) The failed HR is not "evidence that that many Americans dismiss our rich cultural heritage of embracing the righteousness of YHWH; as they slip into the immorality of Godlessness."

We're done. You obviously started off trying to use the HR as evidence that we're a Christian nation.

When I pointed out to you that the HR failed, it appears you changed your tune and seem to believe that it evidently failed because "many Americans dismiss our rich cultural heritage of embracing the righteousness of YHWH; as they slip into the immorality of Godlessness."

BobRyan said:

if it is using phrases distinctive of Christ "in the year of our LORD 1787" or a direct appeal to "The Trinity" as in the Paris Peace treaty - then it is not at all a case of being founded without any reference to the Christian God.

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BobRyan said:

the founding documents point unmistakably to Christianity.

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But was this what everyone understood?

Also, even if everyone understood this, therefore how did they act on this claim? How in history do we see political people behaving, as a result of their understanding America was Christian?

Was it a gesture to appease certain religious people, including somebody's grandmother? Or, in history do we see the American government aggressively being kind to any and all enemies, loving your enemy as Jesus says to do? Did they treat Native Americans like people they hoped to adopt as their own Christian brothers and sisters? How did they treat Tories after the Revolution? Did they aggressively seek reconciliation and forgiveness, like how Jesus has us doing?

Or, did they become another version of the British Empire, spreading into more and more territory while quashing Native Americans and Mexicans, in order to take their land? What therefore did they do, claiming to be Trinitarian? We see how certain ones claiming to be Roman Catholic behaved while claiming to be Christian and Trinitarian.

If they were in name only, how is this supposed to mean anything??

BobRyan said:

The United States Constitution does mention God. In Article VII, the Constitution states:

Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the twelfth….


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Question -- in which religion is the phrase "in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven" allowed? Is it Christianity? Judaism, Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism ??

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This was brought to my attention recently -- a resolution in the house of representatives in 2009 contained a number of historic facts that are pertain to the subject of this thread

"facts that do not change" listed in that resolution including

Text - H.Res.397

Whereas the United States Supreme Court has declared throughout the course of our Nation’s history that the United States is “a Christian country”, “a Christian nation”, “a Christian people”, “a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being”, and that “we cannot read into the Bill of Rights a philosophy of hostility to religion”;




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So while we were not founded as a "theocracy" the nation's documents point to the fact that it is a Christian nation

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Well Brother . Satan also believes in God but his kingdom ( this world ) is hardly christian . A creed does not make one a christian . This nation was founded in rebellion against the King of England because of taxation without representation . The founders felt "put upon " despite being wealthy slave owners . Most men were far from godly . T Jefferson , G Washington , and many believed in God but were more enlightened deist and humanist . Jesus was never ambitious ...all of the founders of this country were very ambitious . There is no such animal as a christian nation . That is propaganda but no where in the bible . Democracy is only alluded to when Saul disobeyed God because of the "people " . Democracy is Greek and a republic is Roman . We are more like Rome than the Kingdom of God . Comparing ourselves with other ungodly countries will never bring us to repentance which is what is needed . The actions of Christ demonstrated He was sent from God . His Word agreed with His actions . The actions of this country speak against the idea of a christian country regardless of our written documents . The truth is what it is .

Maria Billingsley said:

If we are strictly talking about who settled in America, it was the Puritans.

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This. America, as a society, predates the Constitution. America produced the Constitution, not the other way around. You can't have an American Revolution unless you already have an America.

Yes you are right it was and is. To go into the back ground of each is hard many being Episcopalian, Presbyterian,.. a...Quaker, Catholic and many Congregationalist. The "Deist" yeah..not that many.

Just the fact they use to PRAY ALLOT!

"I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have the United States in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Devine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation. Amen" Washington.

There are people who claim America is Christian.

Our Apostle Paul says what to do "first of all" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4.

Is this what you hear happening during prayer in your church? When there is prayer in your church, is this what the praying person does? This would be included in what a country does, if it is Christian, I would think, since Paul says to do this . . . "first of all". And I would expect, then, that a politician who claims to be Christian would do this, and be an example of this.

BobRyan said:

A "Christian nation" as opposed to a "Hindu nation" or "an atheist nation" is one that has distinctively Christian statements in its founding documents and acts of congress.

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Meaning they do not give God lip service but actually love all as self.

BobRyan said:

It does not mean "its politicians are saints" etc.

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But there needs to be Christian practice.

You identify as Seventh-Day Adventist. What if the founders had named Seventh-Day Adventist in every one of their documents and laws? But one law said it is great to be a Seventh-Day Adventist but anyone can do any work during the Sabbath. What would you think of the U.S. being called "Seventh-Day Adventist"? Perhaps you would just say no one is expected to be perfect.