The Seed of Abraham

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2020

summerville said:
Show me.. When did they suddenly change?

When did who suddenly change? I didn't mention anyone changing.

Here's an article by Ray Vander Laan that describes the different factions: The Seeds of Revolt

parousia70 · Mar 9, 2020

Charlie24 said:
The only way to deny Ezekiel 40-48 is to spiritualize it, right.

All these minute details of the temple are a spiritual application and serve only a spiritual purpose.

That's reformed theology and is a lie!!!

So your position is that the "never again, no more, forever" found in Hebrews 10 is a Lie then?

parousia70 · Mar 9, 2020

Paul quotes from Ezekiel 37 as being fulfilled with US being the temple of God. Ezekiel 37 and 43 are clearly talking about the same temple as God dwells there forever with His people.

2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them,
and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”d

Ezekiel 37:26-27 nd I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling placed will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple,and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever

There was a command to build the 1st temple and it was made by human hands:

1 Chronicles 28:6 He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

1 Chronicles 28:11 Then David gave to his son Solomon the plan of the porch of the temple, its buildings, its storehouses, its upper rooms, its inner rooms and the room for the mercy seat;

2 Chronicles 2:1 Now Solomon decided to build a house for the name of the LORD and a royal palace for himself. 2So Solomon assigned 70,000 men to carry loads and 80,000 men to quarry stone in the mountains and 3,600 to supervise them.

There was a command to build the 2nd temple and it was made by human hands:

Ezra 1:3 ‘Whoever there is among you of all His people, may his God be with him! Let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the LORD, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem.

Haggai 1:14 So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

The Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40-43) was never built, nor was there any command given to God's people to build it. Additionally, there is no command for God's people to build a 3rd literal, physical, earthly temple in the Bible.

Here is the purpose of the Ezekiel temple:

Ezekiel 43:10-12
“As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan. 11“If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.12“This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

So what exactly is the Ezekiel temple? It is the temple built by God himself:

John 2:19-22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Hebrews 9:11-12
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,a He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation). 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption

It is where God dwells with his people forever:

Ezekiel 43:9
Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me, and I will dwell in their midst forever.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Was there a time when the people of Israel saw this temple and were ashamed? YES

Acts 2:36-41
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Charlie24 · Mar 9, 2020

parousia70 said:
So your position is that the "never again, no more, forever" found in Hebrews 10 is a Lie then?

What is your point in Heb. 10? Some verses with your point would help!

I'll be happy to explain it!

summerville · Mar 9, 2020

mkgal1 said:
When did who suddenly change? I didn't mention anyone changing.

Here's an article by Ray Vander Laan that describes the different factions: The Seeds of Revolt

Seeds of Revolt certainly simplifies and underplays the divisiveness of the times.

There was NO let up in the chaos and turmoil from the time of the persecutions of Antiochus IV and the Maccabean Revolt thru the Jewish war of 66 AD and destruction of the Temple.. thru the atrocities of Hadrian. The savages were the Zealots, Siccarri, Idumeans and Galileans. The Zealots dressed like women and they were lethal. The Pharisees, Sadducees and Herodians wanted peace. The Queen of the Jews, Herod's granddaughter Queen Berniece, was the mistress of Titus.

The Essenes just retreated to the desert.

Hadrian forced the Jews to leave their dead in the streets and when the Jews fled to the caves above the Dead Sea, he hunted them down and killed them.

Charlie24 · Mar 9, 2020

parousia70 said:
Paul quotes from Ezekiel 37 as being fulfilled with US being the temple of God. Ezekiel 37 and 43 are clearly talking about the same temple as God dwells there forever with His people.

2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them,
and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”d

Ezekiel 37:26-27 nd I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling placed will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple,and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever

There was a command to build the 1st temple and it was made by human hands:

1 Chronicles 28:6 He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

1 Chronicles 28:11 Then David gave to his son Solomon the plan of the porch of the temple, its buildings, its storehouses, its upper rooms, its inner rooms and the room for the mercy seat;

2 Chronicles 2:1 Now Solomon decided to build a house for the name of the LORD and a royal palace for himself. 2So Solomon assigned 70,000 men to carry loads and 80,000 men to quarry stone in the mountains and 3,600 to supervise them.

There was a command to build the 2nd temple and it was made by human hands:

Ezra 1:3 ‘Whoever there is among you of all His people, may his God be with him! Let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the LORD, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem.

Haggai 1:14 So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

The Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40-43) was never built, nor was there any command given to God's people to build it. Additionally, there is no command for God's people to build a 3rd literal, physical, earthly temple in the Bible.

Here is the purpose of the Ezekiel temple:

Ezekiel 43:10-12
“As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan. 11“If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.12“This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

So what exactly is the Ezekiel temple? It is the temple built by God himself:

John 2:19-22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Hebrews 9:11-12
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,a He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation). 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption

It is where God dwells with his people forever:

Ezekiel 43:9
Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me, and I will dwell in their midst forever.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Was there a time when the people of Israel saw this temple and were ashamed? YES

Acts 2:36-41
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Look, if you want to discuss this, I'm all in.

But posts like this one is not getting us anywhere with so much covered this way.

Keep it short and to the point, we will get to all of it, but a piece at the time, ok.

Charlie24 · Mar 9, 2020

parousia70 said:
Paul quotes from Ezekiel 37 as being fulfilled with US being the temple of God. Ezekiel 37 and 43 are clearly talking about the same temple as God dwells there forever with His people.

2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them,
and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”d

Ezekiel 37:26-27 nd I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling placed will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple,and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever

There was a command to build the 1st temple and it was made by human hands:

1 Chronicles 28:6 He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

1 Chronicles 28:11 Then David gave to his son Solomon the plan of the porch of the temple, its buildings, its storehouses, its upper rooms, its inner rooms and the room for the mercy seat;

2 Chronicles 2:1 Now Solomon decided to build a house for the name of the LORD and a royal palace for himself. 2So Solomon assigned 70,000 men to carry loads and 80,000 men to quarry stone in the mountains and 3,600 to supervise them.

There was a command to build the 2nd temple and it was made by human hands:

Ezra 1:3 ‘Whoever there is among you of all His people, may his God be with him! Let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the LORD, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem.

Haggai 1:14 So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

The Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40-43) was never built, nor was there any command given to God's people to build it. Additionally, there is no command for God's people to build a 3rd literal, physical, earthly temple in the Bible.

Here is the purpose of the Ezekiel temple:

Ezekiel 43:10-12
“As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan. 11“If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.12“This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

So what exactly is the Ezekiel temple? It is the temple built by God himself:

John 2:19-22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Hebrews 9:11-12
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,a He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation). 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption

It is where God dwells with his people forever:

Ezekiel 43:9
Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me, and I will dwell in their midst forever.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Was there a time when the people of Israel saw this temple and were ashamed? YES

Acts 2:36-41
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Reformed theology is nothing more than pure ignorance of the scriptures!

In this discussion I will prove it!

summerville · Mar 9, 2020

parousia70 said:
Paul quotes from Ezekiel 37 as being fulfilled with US being the temple of God. Ezekiel 37 and 43 are clearly talking about the same temple as God dwells there forever with His people.

2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them,
and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”d

Ezekiel 37:26-27 nd I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling placed will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple,and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever

There was a command to build the 1st temple and it was made by human hands:

1 Chronicles 28:6 He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

1 Chronicles 28:11 Then David gave to his son Solomon the plan of the porch of the temple, its buildings, its storehouses, its upper rooms, its inner rooms and the room for the mercy seat;

2 Chronicles 2:1 Now Solomon decided to build a house for the name of the LORD and a royal palace for himself. 2So Solomon assigned 70,000 men to carry loads and 80,000 men to quarry stone in the mountains and 3,600 to supervise them.

There was a command to build the 2nd temple and it was made by human hands:

Ezra 1:3 ‘Whoever there is among you of all His people, may his God be with him! Let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the LORD, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem.

Haggai 1:14 So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

The Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40-43) was never built, nor was there any command given to God's people to build it. Additionally, there is no command for God's people to build a 3rd literal, physical, earthly temple in the Bible.

Here is the purpose of the Ezekiel temple:

Ezekiel 43:10-12
“As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the plan. 11“If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.12“This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

So what exactly is the Ezekiel temple? It is the temple built by God himself:

John 2:19-22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Hebrews 9:11-12
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,a He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation). 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption

It is where God dwells with his people forever:

Ezekiel 43:9
Now let them put away their whoring and the dead bodies of their kings far from me, and I will dwell in their midst forever.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Was there a time when the people of Israel saw this temple and were ashamed? YES

Acts 2:36-41
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Ezekiel got a message that the Temple had been destroyed.. He was 700 miles away and began to prophecie..

We read in Ezekiel 34:23-24 – “I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the Lord have spoken.” Again, we read in Ezekiel 37:24 – “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.” This David could only be referring to the Messiah who would yet come and not to the historical David who had already died. David was a type of the Messiah who would come in the future. When the people of Israel came back to their homeland under Ezra, Nehemiah, and Zerubbabel, the Messiah had not yet come, but He would come to their descendants in the future.

parousia70 · Mar 9, 2020

Charlie24 said:
What is your point in Heb. 10? Some verses with your point would help!

I'll be happy to explain it!

Well I posted them once and you ignored them, so I'm happy to see you now have a change of heart.

Here they are again, along with my contentions about them:

Christ does not come to reverse this:
Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

How long do you believe "Forever" is?

....17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Your contention that there will once again in our future be sin offerings mandated is opposite of the teaching above TO THE JEWS, that says "never again, no more, forever"

How do you reconcile this?

parousia70 · Mar 9, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Look, if you want to discuss this, I'm all in.

But posts like this one is not getting us anywhere with so much covered this way.

Keep it short and to the point, we will get to all of it, but a piece at the time, ok.

Ok... but all It was was a fairly simple comparison of scripture with scripture showing the Apostolic interpretation of the fulfillment of Ezekiel's Temple in their day in and through the Body of Christ...and the Apostolic interpretation of Ezekiel's Temple ought to be the authoritative one, don't you think?

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Yes, the Zealots were the ones that trampled Jerusalem and were like wild beasts, but the division wasn't between the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Acts 2 brings light to that.

summerville said:
Show me.. When did they suddenly change?

mkgal1 said:
When did who suddenly change? I didn't mention anyone changing.

Here's an article by Ray Vander Laan that describes the different factions: The Seeds of Revolt

summerville said:
Seeds of Revolt certainly simplifies and underplays the divisiveness of the times.

There was NO let up in the chaos and turmoil from the time of the persecutions of Antiochus IV and the Maccabean Revolt thru the Jewish war of 66 AD and destruction of the Temple.. thru the atrocities of Hadrian. The savages were the Zealots, Siccarri, Idumeans and Galileans. The Zealots dressed like women and they were lethal. The Pharisees, Sadducees and Herodians wanted peace. The Queen of the Jews, Herod's granddaughter Queen Berniece, was the mistress of Titus.

The Essenes just retreated to the desert.

Hadrian forced the Jews to leave their dead in the streets and when the Jews fled to the caves above the Dead Sea, he hunted them down and killed them.

Back to my question, "when did who change?"

summerville · Mar 9, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Back to my question, "when did who change?"

Oh... when did Israel and Judah suddenly make friends and come together?

Charlie24 · Mar 9, 2020

parousia70 said:
Well I posted them once and you ignored them, so I'm happy to see you now have a change of heart.

Here they are again, along with my contentions about them:

Christ does not come to reverse this:
Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

How long do you believe "Forever" is?

....17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Your contention that there will once again in our future be sin offerings mandated is opposite of the teaching above TO THE JEWS, that says "never again, no more, forever"

How do you reconcile this?

Heb. 10:14 goes back to our earlier discussion about the future sacrifices during the Millennium not being about the forgiveness of sins.

"He has perfected forever," means that their is no need for anymore animal sacrifices, He has forever perfected the sacrifice with Himself.

The future sacrifices are for a memorial of sorts to honor Christ. It's a kind of "in your face" thing to show the Gentile nations that God never cast away His people and they will get what He originally promised.

Vs. 17 and 18 prove my point that the offering of sacrifices during this time have nothing to with sin. The Gentiles will not even be included in these sacrifices, they will be forced to honor the sacrifices that only the Jews will be able to offer.

The "in your face thing,"

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2020

summerville said:
Oh... when did Israel and Judah suddenly make friends and come together?

In Christ. Under the New Covenant - examples are recorded in Acts 2 and Acts 8.

faroukfarouk · Mar 9, 2020

summerville said:
Oh... when did Israel and Judah suddenly make friends and come together?

The kingdoms divided in the Old Testament.

parousia70 · Mar 9, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Heb. 10:14 goes back to our earlier discussion about the future sacrifices during the Millennium not being about the forgiveness of sins.

"He has perfected forever," means that their is no need for anymore animal sacrifices, He has forever perfected the sacrifice with Himself.

The future sacrifices are for a memorial of sorts to honor Christ. It's a kind of "in your face" thing to show the Gentile nations that God never cast away His people and they will get what He originally promised.

Vs. 17 and 18 prove my point that the offering of sacrifices during this time have nothing to with sin. The Gentiles will not even be included in these sacrifices, they will be forced to honor the sacrifices that only the Jews will be able to offer.

The "in your face thing,"

Then you must entirely ignore or make meaningless the text itself, for the text testifies they are wholly for and about Sin and atonement:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel's Sacrifices are not a remembrance or a memorial. Scripture demands they be efficacious. I understand that for you to reconcile Ezek 40-48 with your view, you MUST view them as memorial, and render the above texts into meaningless arglebargle, but scripture is clear that they are not.

summerville · Mar 9, 2020

Luke 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

summerville · Mar 9, 2020

faroukfarouk said:
The kingdoms divided in the Old Testament.

I don't see any evidence that they stopped hating each other in Acts.

Charlie24 · Mar 9, 2020

parousia70 said:
Then you must entirely ignore or make meaningless the text itself, for the text testifies they are wholly for and about Sin and atonement:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel's Sacrifices are not a remembrance or a memorial. Scripture demands they be efficacious. I understand that for you to reconcile Ezek 40-48 with your view, you MUST view them as memorial, and render the above texts into meaningless arglebargle, but scripture is clear that they are not.

Zech. 8:20-23
20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

I suppose this is spiritual also?

mkgal1 · Mar 9, 2020

faroukfarouk said:
The kingdoms divided in the Old Testament.

summerville said:
I don't see any evidence that they stopped hating each other in Acts.

Read all of Acts 2 (Peter's sermon) and Acts 8.

From Wiki: On the succession of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, around 930 BCE, the biblical account reports that the country split into two kingdoms: the Kingdom of Israel (including the cities of Shechem and Samaria) in the north and the Kingdom of Judah (containing Jerusalem) in the south.

Acts 8:5 - Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ to them.
Acts 8:12-17 ~
But when they believed Philip as he preached the gospel of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Even Simon himself believed and was baptized. He followed Philip closely and was astounded by the great signs and miracles he observed.When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. On their arrival, they prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

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