LDS The Innefectual Christ of Mormonism

Jamesone5

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You mean like how a certain one of Jesus' apostles swore that he would never deny Christ yet denied him thrice in a single morning?

Jesus knew that the guy could talk a good game, but lacked the moral courage to back it up. Indeed, it took the guilt and shame of realizing what he'd done for him to harden up and be the witness Christ needed him to be.

I am not sure what you point is. But, I will add that Peter was without the Holy Spirit at that time he denied Him. It has nothing to do with this "moral courage"---he even had this so-called moral courage as he was willing to take on a host of people with a sword in the Garden when Jesus was arrested. [John 18:10]

Gee, do you not think the Holy Spirit makes one "harden up"--as you say?

I have also repented of thinking I was following [what turned out to be], a false Christ as a Mormon and their imitation Holy Ghost. God does not allow one to repent and receive the True Holy Spirit?

I have to be like you and vow my devotion to JS all my life?

You make no sense.
 
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He is the way

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I am not sure what you point is. But, I will add that Peter was without the Holy Spirit at that time he denied Him. It has nothing to do with this "moral courage"---he even had this so-called moral courage as he was willing to take on a host of people with a sword in the Garden when Jesus was arrested. [John 18:10]

I have also repented of thinking I was following [what turned out to be], a false Christ as a Mormon. God does not allow one to repent and receive the True Holy Spirit?

I have to be like you and vow my devotion to JS all my life?

You make no sense.
There is only one way to know God and that is to keep the commandments.
 
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He is the way

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And being a new creation in Christ, I do my best.

Your point?
The point is to know the TRUE God and Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | John 17:3)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 
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Jamesone5

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The point is to know the TRUE God and Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | John 17:3)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Are you trying to convince yourself or me that you are following the ONE True God in the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit? Therein lies the huge difference.
 
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He is the way

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Are you trying to convince yourself or me that you are following the ONE True God in the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit? Therein lies the huge difference.
I have the promise that by obeying the commandments I will know the true God and Jesus Christ who He has sent.

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 6)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
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dzheremi

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When has anyone said that following Christ does not involve following His commandments? Do you think you are on Antinomian Forums, not Christian Forums?

All I've ever seen, or for that matter said, has been that His commandments are not the commandments of the Mormon religion, which...yeah, of course. Duh. That's so obvious, just like it's obvious that 1 John 2:5 is in our Bibles. You are in no way proving your case by highlighting it as though we don't know it's there or what it means.
 
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He is the way

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When has anyone said that following Christ does not involve following His commandments? Do you think you are on Antinomian Forums, not Christian Forums?

All I've ever seen, or for that matter said, has been that His commandments are not the commandments of the Mormon religion, which...yeah, of course. Duh. That's so obvious, just like it's obvious that 1 John 2:5 is in our Bibles. You are in no way proving your case by highlighting it as though we don't know it's there or what it means.
It is awesome that we have that promise. And it does not mater which church or denomination a person belongs to, they can know the true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent.
 
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Jamesone5

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I have the promise that by obeying the commandments I will know the true God and Jesus Christ who He has sent.

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 6)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

You stay with your pipe dream.
Let's see a God in Jesus Christ another in God the Father and yet another in the Holy Ghost---yet we are told in the Bible repeatedly ONE True God. And,depending on what you are defending-it goes to one Lord and one God--where Jesus is just called Lord, and supposedly the literal son of God---God the Father supposedly maintain His God status.You cannot figure out whether they are one or 2 or even three. Pretty important "knowing" when you say YOU know God and Jesus Christ who He Sent.
 
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He is the way

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You stay with your pipe dream.
Let's see a God in Jesus Christ another in God the Father and yet another in the Holy Ghost---yet we are told in the Bible repeatedly ONE True God. And,depending on what you are defending-it goes to one Lord and one God--where Jesus is just called Lord, and supposedly the literal son of God---God the Father supposedly maintain His God status.You cannot figure out whether they are one or 2 or even three. Pretty important "knowing" when you say YOU know God and Jesus Christ who He Sent.
Well we know that God the Father is the God and Father of Jesus Christ of whom the Father is well pleased and Jesus is who the Father sent. You can look it up as it is all in the Bible. The Bible also states that we have one God the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. It also states that they are one God as does the Book of Mormon. Jesus also states that they are one in glory and perfection, so I hope you have it all figured out.
 
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Jamesone5

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Well we know that God the Father is the God and Father of Jesus Christ of whom the Father is well pleased and Jesus is who the Father sent. You can look it up as it is all in the Bible. The Bible also states that we have one God the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. It also states that they are one God as does the Book of Mormon. Jesus also states that they are one in glory and perfection, so I hope you have it all figured out.

Let us discuss the Sonship of Jesus Christ. God the Father in the Hebrew and the Greek is really figurative in this sense. Christ is NOT God the Father's natural son and yet, Mormons insist upon that. Jesus is also God and part of what we refer to as the Triune God. He is Lord and God as so many verses refer to that aspect. Your construct makes Him less that what He truly Is.

So your Beliefs about Him and God the Father----makes you to NOT know both aspects of the One True God.

.

The Bible also states that we have one God the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ.--He is the Way

So where did the ONE God of Israel go? And do you not realize that God and Lord in the OT was used interchangeably? I have had many Mormons try to tell me that Christ was God of the OT---so they did a "switcharo" that nothing in Scripture tells us about?

See God and Lord and who Mormons refer to with those titles is a huge problem that you cannot figure out how to get out of and you genearlly come out with claiming there is two or three Gods---and frustrate the whole construct of the Bible.
"In the Beginning God [not Gods] created the Heavens and the earth"--Gen. 1:1---in contrast to you fictional book of Abraham which tries to tell us the Gods did the Creating or fashioning or whatever.

The false doctrines that you [and I before] merely accept is part of that deception.
 
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Jamesone5

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To get this thread back on track, I realized anther Bible verse that applies here to what the OP is referring to.

Mormons in their Article of Faith of course say this:

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

The verse I found is this one:

John 11:22
But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

I think Mormons have exchanged Faith for Hope--as hoping to endure is based on hope as it says.

We, who have the True God have to realize that our Faith will be tested but then enduring---it is nothing more than this testing. We should pray for this endurance but know that God will deliver whatever we need out of our Faith in Him.

Anyway hope to be able to endure all things speak of our own efforts, certainly not Christ who strengthens us. Paul say it distinctly here:

2 Timothy 2:3
You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
 
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He is the way

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Let us discuss the Sonship of Jesus Christ. God the Father in the Hebrew and the Greek is really figurative in this sense. Christ is NOT God the Father's natural son and yet, Mormons insist upon that. Jesus is also God and part of what we refer to as the Triune God. He is Lord and God as so many verses refer to that aspect. Your construct makes Him less that what He truly Is.

So your Beliefs about Him and God the Father----makes you to NOT know both aspects of the One True God.

.

The Bible also states that we have one God the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ.--He is the Way

So where did the ONE God of Israel go? And do you not realize that God and Lord in the OT was used interchangeably? I have had many Mormons try to tell me that Christ was God of the OT---so they did a "switcharo" that nothing in Scripture tells us about?

See God and Lord and who Mormons refer to with those titles is a huge problem that you cannot figure out how to get out of and you genearlly come out with claiming there is two or three Gods---and frustrate the whole construct of the Bible.
"In the Beginning God [not Gods] created the Heavens and the earth"--Gen. 1:1---in contrast to you fictional book of Abraham which tries to tell us the Gods did the Creating or fashioning or whatever.

The false doctrines that you [and I before] merely accept is part of that deception.
Yes Jesus (Jehovah) was indeed the God of Israel. Jesus will give everything to the Father when His work is done:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:20 - 28)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


You said: "in contrast to you fictional book of Abraham which tries to tell us the Gods did the Creating or fashioning or whatever."
So why not fault the Bible when it used the plural for God????????????

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 
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He is the way

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To get this thread back on track, I realized anther Bible verse that applies here to what the OP is referring to.

Mormons in their Article of Faith of course say this:

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

The verse I found is this one:

John 11:22
But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

I think Mormons have exchanged Faith for Hope--as hoping to endure is based on hope as it says.

We, who have the True God have to realize that our Faith will be tested but then enduring---it is nothing more than this testing. We should pray for this endurance but know that God will deliver whatever we need out of our Faith in Him.

Anyway hope to be able to endure all things speak of our own efforts, certainly not Christ who strengthens us. Paul say it distinctly here:

2 Timothy 2:3
You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
John 11:22 is about whatever Jesus asks of God:

(New Testament | John 11:20 - 23)

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

God will only give us what we ask for if we are diligent in our search and it is right:

(New Testament | James 1:6 - 8)

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
 
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Jamesone5

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John 11:22 is about whatever Jesus asks of God:

(New Testament | John 11:20 - 23)

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

God will only give us what we ask for if we are diligent in our search and it is right:

(New Testament | James 1:6 - 8)

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

What in heaven's name are you taking about or referring to?

He raised him from the dead did He not?
 
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Jamesone5

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Yes Jesus (Jehovah) was indeed the God of Israel. Jesus will give everything to the Father when His work is done:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:20 - 28)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


You said: "in contrast to you fictional book of Abraham which tries to tell us the Gods did the Creating or fashioning or whatever."
So why not fault the Bible when it used the plural for God????????????

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Plural for God as in GODS?

The key is right there in the first words
And GOD said.


Pul--ease.
 
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Jamesone5

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In this case the word God is plural.
(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)

26 ¶ And God said,

That term God is plural?

You go on worshiping Your Gods or gods and I will Worship my One True God in the Father and Christ.
 
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Jamesone5

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Yes He did, so how does that scripture relate to you?

That I can be once again be alive in Christ after being dead in Mormonism for 40 years.

But then, you dismiss the area of what the OP is about.

and hope to be able to endure all things.

I though your God was the God of Love---He doesn't help you endure? Leaves you to only hope you can endure? Your Faith in Him is that weak?

What kind of God is that---who leaves you in a lurch at times?
 
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