Unchristian teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church....

bbbbbbb

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Okay, but on the other hand, it isn't the case that any and every person we'd define as a "Christian" also qualifies as a "catholic" with a small 'c'.

Again, quite true, which is the reason why I asked him whether or not if he considered me, personally, to be a true catholic.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Seriously, how would we know?

We can use standard criteria here at CF - my faith icon (non-denominational) my agreement with the Nicene Creed (hence my ability to post anywhere here) and my posts, which extend over a number of years. Fidelibus and I have interacted numerous times and I think he has more than enough information to determine whether or not he considers me to be truly catholic.
 
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Albion

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We can use standard criteria here at CF - my faith icon (non-denominational)
which tells us absolutely nothing about the doctrines of your church or even if you have a church you identify with.

my agreement with the Nicene Creed (hence my ability to post anywhere here) and my posts, which extend over a number of years.
Okay, but people don't always abide by that rule or else reinterpret the Creed to their benefit. And I don't think it can be expected of everybody who gets interested in this thread that they will already know all your previous posts.

Fidelibus and I have interacted numerous times and I think he has more than enough information to determine whether or not he considers me to be truly catholic.
Very well, but you should know that you are advocating for a different interpretation of "catholic" than he holds. That's the whole reason that there is a controversy at present.

I'm not intending to be your adversary, but if "catholic" with a small 'c' is to be understood as I explained--as meaning orthodox Christianity as opposed to every last person or church that considers itself to be Christian (Mormons, for instance)--I have no way of knowing if you fit the description or not. So I figure that this applies to other readers also. :)
 
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bbbbbbb

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which tells us absolutely nothing about the doctrines of your church or even if you have a church you identify with.


Okay, but people don't always abide by that rule or else reinterpret the Creed to their benefit. And I don't think it can be expected of everybody who gets interested in this thread that they will already know all your previous posts.


Very well, but you should know that you are advocating for a different interpretation of "catholic" than he holds. That's the whole reason that there is a controversy at present.

I'm not intending to be your adversary, but if "catholic" with a small 'c' is to be understood as I explained--as meaning orthodox Christianity as opposed to every last person or church that considers itself to be Christian (Mormons, for instance)--I have no way of knowing if you fit the description or not. So I figure that this applies to other readers also. :)

That's hunky-dory with me. One option, of course, is "I don't know." which you have chosen. That is far preferable to me than simple evasion. I merely requested his opinion, not expecting him to be the omniscient one who knows my every thought and motive.
 
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now faith

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That's hunky-dory with me. One option, of course, is "I don't know." which you have chosen. That is far preferable to me than simple evasion. I merely requested his opinion, not expecting him to be the omniscient one who knows my every thought and motive.

I would find it ambiguous if you chose to be nondenominational just to have freedom to post anywhere.
I attend a nondenominational Church.
I committed to the Word of Faith teaching here.
I was raised a Baptist yet no longer attend Baptist Churches.
Would it be right for me to proclaim Baptist so i could post there?
Never the less before i hear the money bit and about benny Hinn i would say there are diversities among Word of Faith believers.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I would find it ambiguous if you chose to be nondenominational just to have freedom to post anywhere.
I attend a nondenominational Church.
I committed to the Word of Faith teaching here.
I was raised a Baptist yet no longer attend Baptist Churches.
Would it be right for me to proclaim Baptist so i could post there?
Never the less before i hear the money bit and about benny Hinn i would say there are diversities among Word of Faith believers.

I have no problem identifying the groups of churches I associate with - the Plymouth Brethren. However, the folks here at CF do not allow me to identify as such, so I don't have many options left and end up in the hopper with everyone else who is called non-denominational. As you are aware, that term is really quite meaningless both here at CF and in the Christian world.
 
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mmksparbud

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Great emphasis is laid upon the teaching that the Sabbath day is on Saturday, and if a person does not keep Saturday as Sabbath, he cannot be saved. Ultimately, according to SDA theology, your salvation in the last days boils down to the day you worship on. Simply put, there is no salvation outside the SDA church. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith and nothing more. Ephesians 2:8-9


If you are going to sling mud around, please state your source of information----an
SDA believe this or that and an EGW teaches this or that without any quotes to back it up is really not acceptable.

We do not teach that. At the time of the end, when there is a mandate to worship the beast or God---that will be when you have to choose. If, in the meantime, you are convicted of the Sabbath, but choose to ignore that conviction for whatever reason---you are guilty of rejecting the leading of the Holy Spirit and will have to answer for that.

  • Ellen G. White taught that all other churches except the SDA church were teaching lies from the Devil. Only SDA members are true and obedient believers; prayers spoken in other churches are only answered by the Devil. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible.
Again---what is your source for this source of misinformation? That is not what she said at all! She said there are many in other denominatio9ns who will be saved.
  • They believe that in the last days just before Christ returns, only those worshipping on Saturday will be saved. They particularly believe that worshipping on Sunday will be the mark of the beast. They consider themselves to be the only true, remnant church and all others will be condemned in time. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible. The mark of the beast will be a literal mark, either in your forehead or in your hand. Revelation 14:9
When it is mandated that we must worship on Sunday enforced by law---that is the time when it will be the mark of the beast and not before. The mark is not a literal mark, it is the mark of whose authority you choose. The hand represents action, the forehead is the place of thought. God marks His children on the forehead only---the mind---the beast on the forehead and hand---meaning, no one can fake it and say they will do what the law demands but not believe it. God's followers will be fully in compliance only to God in both thought and action.
  • They firmly believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel and this is the name used for him (Jesus) in the Old Testament; yet also believe that Jesus is God. Jesus is God, he is the Creator; (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:1-6) whereas, Michael is just an angel, a created being.
We are not the only ones that believe that and have much scripture to prove it. Michael is just another title of Jesus, it means "one who is like God"---that is not an angle, Jesus is not a created being. There are instances in the bible where those He appeared to worshipped Him, no angel accepts worship from man.
  • They believe that the atonement through Jesus is not complete until He comes again, only your past sins are forgiven by grace up to that point. The Bible says that the atoning work of Jesus is finished, never again to be repeated. John 19:30; Hebrews 9:24-28
You have no clue what we believe. When Jesus forgives, He forgives all your sins. Again, where are you getting your baloney from?
  • They believe in the "sanctuary teaching" that Jesus is now cleaning the sanctuary in the heavens before he can return to the earth. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible.
YOU APPARENTLY HAVE NEVER STUDIED THE SANCTUARY AND ARE TOTALLY UNAWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE SANCTUARY CONTAINS THE SALVATION MESSAGE IN IT'S ENTIRETY AND HOW IT APPLIES TO DAY AND IS DEPICTED IN REVELATION.
  • They believe you will have to stand in the presence of the living God for judgment without a mediator. The Bible says that there is one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus himself. I Timothy 2:5
What we say is what Jesus says. There will come a time when His work in the sanctuary as our High Priest will be over and He will say "It is done" and He will come for us---Rev_16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

When He is finished in the sanctuary--Rev_22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
There will be no changing of the minds then.
  • The believe you can be sinless, also known as "sinless perfection". Meaning that a person can become sinless while they are still living on this earth in their physical body. The Bible says that all are born with sin. All throughout the New Testament, the various authors write about fleeing and resisting sin, they themselves struggled with sin. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible.
We believe Jesus came to show us we can be like Him and be sinless like Him through His power.
Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
  • They won’t tell you that early Adventists expected the literal second coming of Christ in 1843 and 1844 only to be disappointed. They won’t tell you that their 1844 "investigative judgment" teaching was born out of an attempt to cover over this false prophecy. Instead of repenting over this false date, they believe that Christ really came, but INVISIBLY in heaven. As an SDA you now enter a period of "investigative judgment" where every deed you do or don’t do is recorded for judgment day. You will even be judged for "idle moments" where you could have been more obedient. When Christ comes, every eye shall see it (Revelation 1:7). At the Judgment Seat of Christ, we will be judged.
    I Corinthians 3:11-15; II Corinthians 5:10
There were no SDA at that time. That is the Millerites which was composed of every denomination all over the world. We came out of them. The first SDA were a bunch of Baptists and Lutherans and other denominations who studied together after the failure of the return of Jesus and came up with the doctrines for the church through diligent study of the word of God. We formerly became a church in 1863.
  • They believe the doctrine of soul sleeping, which states that the souls of believers in Christ are not in heaven, but are sleeping in the graves. The Bible says those who were saved on earth by receiving Jesus Christ as their Saviour and died are now living a full and joyous life in heaven. Revelation 7:9-17
That is the only thing so far that you have stated that is true!! And we are not the only ones that believe that. We do not believe in the immortality of the soul for God alone is immortal. There will be a judgement day for the wicked and when Jesus returns, He comes for the saved only and His reward is with Him---eternal life. You can't receive your reward until you are judged!!
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
  • They believe in the final and total annihilation of the wicked, where they will simply cease to exist after the final judgment. This doctrine is in harmony with the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Bible says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:12-15
That is true and it doesn't matter who else believes it! There are others who do also for it is what the bible says and there have been countless threads on this subject and no one has proven yet that it is a false doctrine!
  • They do not believe in the eternal punishment of Satan and his fallen angels. They believe that the penalty for sinning against a Holy God is merely annihilation. Satan is the scapegoat; the sins of the believers are laid upon him, and he and these sins are finally burned up. The Bible says that Satan and his fallen angels will be cast in the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:10-15
That is true and the bible says he and all the wicked will be ashes under our feet.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
  • They believe in and demand vegetarianism. There is no place in the Bible where God demands this. There is nothing wrong if a person chooses to be vegetarian for personal or health reasons, but it should never be tied in with our salvation.
We do believe in vegetarianism---WE DO NOT DEMAND IT!! NOR IS IT TIED TO SALVATION!! We can eat meat but it must be of the clean animals as described in the bible.
They believe you should revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, viewing her as having the "spirit of prophecy" referred to in the book of Revelation. Ellen G. White's writing are considered as inspired as the Bible and are used as a authoritative source of truth. In spite of revering her, they won’t ordain women as ministers. Ellen was a proven plagiarist and therefore a liar. God's attributes are truth and light (I John 1:5-6), whereas, Satan's attributes are darkness and lying (John 8:44).

We do believe EGW to be a proophetess olf God but we do not revere her--she is noit our Mary!! We believe her writings but we follow the bible, not her! The whole plagerism case was taken to court and she was exonerated.


The more I research them the more I see the similiarties to the Jehovahs witnesses, infact even the founder of JWs, Russel was heavily involved in the Adventist movement! Wow so much to take in. Its also interesting they started around the same time as Mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses! All 3 of these groups tend to borrow beliefs from each other! What are you thoughts?

You have done precious little research! Most of what you have written is absolutely not true.

Exo_20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo_23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
 
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concretecamper

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Seventh Day Adventists on here love to talk about how the Roman Catholic Church is disgusting and there church teachings are just so biblical. Lets take a look at them!

Great emphasis is laid upon the teaching that the Sabbath day is on Saturday, and if a person does not keep Saturday as Sabbath, he cannot be saved. Ultimately, according to SDA theology, your salvation in the last days boils down to the day you worship on. Simply put, there is no salvation outside the SDA church. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith and nothing more. Ephesians 2:8-9


  • Ellen G. White taught that all other churches except the SDA church were teaching lies from the Devil. Only SDA members are true and obedient believers; prayers spoken in other churches are only answered by the Devil. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible.
  • They believe that in the last days just before Christ returns, only those worshipping on Saturday will be saved. They particularly believe that worshipping on Sunday will be the mark of the beast. They consider themselves to be the only true, remnant church and all others will be condemned in time. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible. The mark of the beast will be a literal mark, either in your forehead or in your hand. Revelation 14:9
  • They firmly believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel and this is the name used for him (Jesus) in the Old Testament; yet also believe that Jesus is God. Jesus is God, he is the Creator; (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:1-6) whereas, Michael is just an angel, a created being.
  • They believe that the atonement through Jesus is not complete until He comes again, only your past sins are forgiven by grace up to that point. The Bible says that the atoning work of Jesus is finished, never again to be repeated. John 19:30; Hebrews 9:24-28
  • They believe in the "sanctuary teaching" that Jesus is now cleaning the sanctuary in the heavens before he can return to the earth. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible.
  • They believe you will have to stand in the presence of the living God for judgment without a mediator. The Bible says that there is one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus himself. I Timothy 2:5
  • The believe you can be sinless, also known as "sinless perfection". Meaning that a person can become sinless while they are still living on this earth in their physical body. The Bible says that all are born with sin. All throughout the New Testament, the various authors write about fleeing and resisting sin, they themselves struggled with sin. This is a man-made doctrine not found in the Bible.
  • They won’t tell you that early Adventists expected the literal second coming of Christ in 1843 and 1844 only to be disappointed. They won’t tell you that their 1844 "investigative judgment" teaching was born out of an attempt to cover over this false prophecy. Instead of repenting over this false date, they believe that Christ really came, but INVISIBLY in heaven. As an SDA you now enter a period of "investigative judgment" where every deed you do or don’t do is recorded for judgment day. You will even be judged for "idle moments" where you could have been more obedient. When Christ comes, every eye shall see it (Revelation 1:7). At the Judgment Seat of Christ, we will be judged.
    I Corinthians 3:11-15; II Corinthians 5:10

  • They believe the doctrine of soul sleeping, which states that the souls of believers in Christ are not in heaven, but are sleeping in the graves. The Bible says those who were saved on earth by receiving Jesus Christ as their Saviour and died are now living a full and joyous life in heaven. Revelation 7:9-17
  • They believe in the final and total annihilation of the wicked, where they will simply cease to exist after the final judgment. This doctrine is in harmony with the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Bible says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:12-15
  • They do not believe in the eternal punishment of Satan and his fallen angels. They believe that the penalty for sinning against a Holy God is merely annihilation. Satan is the scapegoat; the sins of the believers are laid upon him, and he and these sins are finally burned up. The Bible says that Satan and his fallen angels will be cast in the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:10-15
  • They believe in and demand vegetarianism. There is no place in the Bible where God demands this. There is nothing wrong if a person chooses to be vegetarian for personal or health reasons, but it should never be tied in with our salvation.
They believe you should revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, viewing her as having the "spirit of prophecy" referred to in the book of Revelation. Ellen G. White's writing are considered as inspired as the Bible and are used as a authoritative source of truth. In spite of revering her, they won’t ordain women as ministers. Ellen was a proven plagiarist and therefore a liar. God's attributes are truth and light (I John 1:5-6), whereas, Satan's attributes are darkness and lying (John 8:44).


The more I research them the more I see the similiarties to the Jehovahs witnesses, infact even the founder of JWs, Russel was heavily involved in the Adventist movement! Wow so much to take in. Its also interesting they started around the same time as Mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses! All 3 of these groups tend to borrow beliefs from each other! What are you thoughts?
My thoughts are protestants hold to unchristian teachings, just like SDA and Jehovah Witnesses. I dont see much difference between them and protestants.
 
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bbbbbbb

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My thoughts are protestants hold to unchristian teachings, just like SDA and Jehovah Witnesses. I dont see much difference between them and protestants.

In like manner, most Protestants don't see the slightest difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
 
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