Question for rapture people

Douggg said:

So, if in your view, you are going to be there, and the nation of Beulah enters into a covenant with the Antichrist; which in a couple years he is central to the abomination of desolation, how are you not going to go through the great tribulation, being in the country?

btw, where is that abomination of desolation going to be placed, physically, in the Christian country of Beulah?

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Revelation 12 explains this: Those who agree the that 7year treaty must remain and experience the GT. Those who refused it, will be taken to the place of safety. Daniel 11:32 shows the two groups.

The AoD is the Anti-Christ person, the leader of the One World Govt. He will sit in the new Temple, on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, as 2 Thess 2:4 plainly says.

keras said:

At the time of Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon was the kings residence. Daniel 4:28-30

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I am not talking about Nebuchadnezzar. Where did those who invaded Belshazzar's city of Babylon, come from? Babylon was the main city of the Chaldeans. I think the Medes and Persians came from different regions... who ended up capturing Babylon from Belshazzar.

keras said:

Revelation 12 explains this: Those who agree the that 7year treaty must remain and experience the GT. Those who refused it, will be taken to the place of safety. Daniel 11:32 shows the two groups.

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Must remain where? Where are you getting "those who refuse it, will be taken to the place of safety"?

What makes you think you won't be part of this group?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

keras said:

The AoD is the Anti-Christ person, the leader of the One World Govt. He will sit in the new Temple, on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, as 2 Thess 2:4 plainly says.

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Christians are going to build a temple in the nation of Beulah ? And God, Jesus, is not going to occupy it - or is forced out by the Antichrist ? Where is that new temple coming from?

Douggg said:

Why not Nineveh, main city of the Persian Empire?

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Well to answer my own question, Ninevah was the main city of the Assyrian empire. The Medes and Babylonians joined forces to destroy it. Then at some point later, further south, to the city of Babylon, the city of Babylon was taken over by the Chaldeans, a group of people south of Babylon.

It appears that the city of Babylon has been occupied by different groups over time.
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So if not Nineveh, then what city was the capital of the Persian Empire? "Persepolis". I am sure we have all heard of that. No? I didn't think so.
Well, it was later burnt to the ground by Alexander the Great.

Douggg said:

Must remain where? Where are you getting "those who refuse it, will be taken to the place of safety"?

What makes you think you won't be part of this group?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Christians are going to build a temple in the nation of Beulah ? And God, Jesus, is not going to occupy it - or is forced out by the Antichrist ? Where is that new temple coming from?

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Must remain - In the holy Land. They will be the 'many' of Daniel 9:27 and those in Rev 12:17
Those who refuse the agree to the 7 year treaty - Faithful Christians. The 'woman' of Rev 12:6 & 14
I won't be part of the first group, as I know to not agree with the 7 year treaty. However I may be killed, as Daniel 11:35

The new Temple - you know yourself there will be a new Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1 prove this.
We Christians will build it and worship God in it. All as described in Ezekiel 40_46.
Jesus will occupy it after it is cleansed, which will be the 75 day period following His Return. [the 1335th day after the Temple is desecrated]

BTW, I have been to Persepolis. It still stands, just the timber roofs were burned by Alexander. Amazing carvings and awe inspiring structures.
It was just the Kings residence and a reception place for visitors.

keras said:

Must remain - In the holy Land. They will be the 'many' of Daniel 9:27 and those in Rev 12:17
Those who refuse the agree to the 7 year treaty - Faithful Christians. The 'woman' of Rev 12:6 & 14

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There is a lot you are reading into those passages, imo.

How does the transgression that sent the Jews into Babylonian captivity apply to Christians?

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

keras said:

The new Temple - you know yourself there will be a new Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1 prove this.
We Christians will build it and worship God in it. All as described in Ezekiel 40_46.
Jesus will occupy it after it is cleansed, which will be the 75 day period following His Return. [the 1335th day after the Temple is desecrated]

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I am not seeing anything in Ezekiel 40-46 of Christians building a physical temple. And I have not heard of any Christian group promoting it.

Douggg said:

How does the transgression that sent the Jews into Babylonian captivity apply to Christians?

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It was both Houses; Israel and Judah, that transgressed. This is plain from Ezekiel 4:4-6, where both houses are exiled for a decreed period. Judah has come back [from the Roman exile] to the Land, but not Israel as yet.
We know that The House of Israel is represented by all the born again Christians. Matthew 15:24 He was successful and we are the result.

Douggg said:

I am not seeing anything in Ezekiel 40-46 of Christians building a physical temple. And I have not heard of any Christian group promoting it.

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No, that is because Gods plans are hidden from most people.
But reading Ezekiel 43:8-12 with the knowledge that the Israelites refers to Christians and you will understand. Proved by Galatians 6:14-16 and how both Houses are mentioned in most prophesies about Israel.
Ezekiel 38:21-29 makes it clear that ALL of Israel, not just the Jews; every faithful Christian, from every race, nation and language, will go back to all of the holy Land, where they will be His witnesses; John 15:27 and will display His glory to the nations; Matthew 5:14-16

God will deliver those covered from judgment from God's judgment, that's it. They are to be with God with whom they have peace, not with those of the world who never repent, which come under God's judgment. It is through Christ that such coming to repentance are redeemed and delivered. Until then, all, believers and all others, suffer what will happen in this world with civilization, as far as they are involved.

Christians are not taking the place for all people of Israel in their land. God is faithful to what God said, without deception.

Douggg said:

Jesus was a prophet, and God Himself. The rapture has not happened yet, but it has been revealed by Jesus and his servant Paul. 1Thessalonians4:13-18. Luke 21:34-36. And awareness of the rapture is so widespread, it cannot be said that it has not be revealed.

Following the rapture, and after the great tribulation here on earth comes to a close, the raptured saints return with Jesus in Zechariah 14:5, the Lord cometh with all His saints.

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Although I disagree about the timing, the Zech.14:5 does reveal the 1 Thess.4 events of the future when Jesus will gather His Church on the way to Jerusalem, on earth.

FredVB said:

Christians are not taking the place for all people of Israel in their land.

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The holy Land - all of it from the Nile to the Euphrates, is our Christian inheritance.
Romans 9:24-26...in the very place..., Ephesians 3:6, Psalms 25:12-13, Palms 37:29

The entire holy Land area is soon to be cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and will be re-populated by all the faithful Christian peoples. Ezekiel 20:34-38 John see us all there in Revelation 7:9

Christians are not taking the place for all people of Israel in their land.

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keras said:

The holy Land - all of it from the Nile to the Euphrates, is our Christian inheritance.
Romans 9:24-26...in the very place..., Ephesians 3:6, Psalms 25:12-13, Palms 37:29
The entire holy Land area is soon to be cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and will be re-populated by all the faithful Christian peoples. Ezekiel 20:34-38 John see us all there in Revelation 7:9

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I can see as I do that this your position, and I am pretty sure you won't change from it or other positions. But I cannot believe that. I trust God who says things in revelation and holds God's word on those things. Jeremiah 33:25-26 shows,
Thus says Yahweh, "If my covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them."

God revealed that through Jeremiah who spoke these and all in his book to the generation that was going to be taken away, and many among them to be killed, when God was permitting their enemies to come on them for their disobedience with disregarding God. God always provided a way back for them, regardless of what any among them had done.

I think it would be rather presumptive of any others to think they are in place of that when they will not come to obedience to God's perfect will for them.

FredVB said:

I can see as I do that this your position, and I am pretty sure you won't change from it or other positions. But I cannot believe that. I trust God who says things in revelation and holds God's word on those things. Jeremiah 33:25-26 shows,
Thus says Yahweh, "If my covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them."

God revealed that through Jeremiah who spoke these and all in his book to the generation that was going to be taken away, and many among them to be killed, when God was permitting their enemies to come on them for their disobedience with disregarding God. God always provided a way back for them, regardless of what any among them had done.

I think it would be rather presumptive of any others to think they are in place of that when they will not come to obedience to God's perfect will for them.

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Fred, we Christians ARE the descendants of Jacob. Galatians 3:26-29
Whether by actual descent or by faith. Ephesians 2:11-18

Do you really think those mixed race, practically Godless people living in a small part of the holy Land, who call themselves Jews and their nation Israel, are the fulfilment of God's plans for the people He chose 3000 years ago?
Many prophesies tell of their fate and how the righteous and faithful believers will gather and go to live in all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-27

keras said:

Fred, we Christians ARE the descendants of Jacob. Galatians 3:26-29
Whether by actual descent or by faith. Ephesians 2:11-18

Do you really think those mixed race, practically Godless people living in a small part of the holy Land, who call themselves Jews and their nation Israel, are the fulfilment of God's plans for the people He chose 3000 years ago?
Many prophesies tell of their fate and how the righteous and faithful believers will gather and go to live in all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-27

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OF COURSE! There is no "second" Israel found on a map anywhere. Perhaps you should refresh your memory on Ezekiel 37......

iamlamad said:

OF COURSE! There is no "second" Israel found on a map anywhere. Perhaps you should refresh your memory on Ezekiel 37......

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There was and still is only one Israel of God.
It was ethnic Israel, but that changed in the first century. Matthew 21:43

I read Ezekiel 37. What it prophesies plainly hasn't happened yet, the peoples the Lord will bestow His Blessings upon are all those who believe in Him, the faithful Christians.

You, lamad, have a very confused and wrong view of what will happen before Jesus Returns.
Read and understand Roman 9:22-27.

keras said:

There was and still is only one Israel of God.
It was ethnic Israel, but that changed in the first century. Matthew 21:43

I read Ezekiel 37. What it prophesies plainly hasn't happened yet, the peoples the Lord will bestow His Blessings upon are all those who believe in Him, the faithful Christians.

You, lamad, have a very confused and wrong view of what will happen before Jesus Returns.
Read and understand Roman 9:22-27.

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Only in your theory did anything change. WAS the kingdom of God taken away from those who heard His words? Of course: in 70 AD they lost everything - certainly some of those same people who heard His words.

But this has NOTHING to do with those descendants of Jacob in the last days. You might as well tear out all the prophets in the Old Testament. Obviously in your mind they were mistaken.
We have to understand end times from ALL end time verses, not your favorite ones!
What do I mean? The bride of Christ is going to heaven at the rapture. You are staying behind.

The Bride of Christ will wait out God's wrath on earth from the safety of heaven. You on the other hand will be living through it - or dying in it.

The bride of Christ will enjoy the marriage and supper in heaven, just before we join with Jesus on white horses for the trip down to earth. You will probably not make it this far.

The bride of Christ will be given cities to judge during the Millennial reign. Here you can join with the rest.

I really hope your theories work out for you - but I think it is forlorn hope.

iamlamad said:

But this has NOTHING to do with those descendants of Jacob in the last days.

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It all does; because we Christians ARE the descendants of Jacob, by faith and also maybe by descent, God only knows. Amos 9:8-9

iamlamad said:

I really hope your theories work out for you - but I think it is forlorn hope.

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What I post is scriptural truth. You, on the other hand, just have opinions and beliefs that you cannot prove from the Bible.

keras said:

It all does; because we Christians ARE the descendants of Jacob, by faith and also maybe by descent, God only knows. Amos 9:8-9

What I post is scriptural truth. You, on the other hand, just have opinions and beliefs that you cannot prove from the Bible.

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You said that backwards: I post scriptural truth; you on the other hand have theories far far from the traditional beliefs of the church. There is a reason untold millions of people believe in the rapture that takes us to heaven: it is TRUTH.

Why is it I can read John 14 and come up with the same theory the church in general has had for many years - that Jesus went to heaven to build homes for us, and is coming back to take us to those homes He has built - but you read it and come up with something different?

I would suggest preconceived ideas that spring from your childhood.

iamlamad said:

What do I mean? The bride of Christ is going to heaven at the rapture. You are staying behind.

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This is sheer pretentious rubbish. YOU will have to answer for it.

I WILL stay on this earth, it is my home and I serve the Lord here.
What earthly use would you be in heaven?

keras said:

This is sheer pretentious rubbish. YOU will have to answer for it.

I WILL stay on this earth, it is my home and I serve the Lord here.
What earthly use would you be in heaven?

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You have said it with your own mouth. YOU will stay. First Thes. 4:17 tells us that the rest of those alive and in Christ will be caught up. Since you have zero faith in being caught up, you will be left behind. It will be your own doing. While the Bride of Christ is rejoicing on the streets of Gold, you will be in panic mode wondering why you are left behind. But you will have to live with it - for it will be your own doing.

God has already told us the purpose: He will fill the earth with His wrath. You can stay behind and suffer His wrath of you choose - and you have already chosen. You are setting your OWN appointment with His wrath.

keras said:

It was both Houses; Israel and Judah, that transgressed. This is plain from Ezekiel 4:4-6, where both houses are exiled for a decreed period. Judah has come back [from the Roman exile] to the Land, but not Israel as yet.
We know that The House of Israel is represented by all the born again Christians. Matthew 15:24 He was successful and we are the result.

No, that is because Gods plans are hidden from most people.
But reading Ezekiel 43:8-12 with the knowledge that the Israelites refers to Christians and you will understand. Proved by Galatians 6:14-16 and how both Houses are mentioned in most prophesies about Israel.
Ezekiel 38:21-29 makes it clear that ALL of Israel, not just the Jews; every faithful Christian, from every race, nation and language, will go back to all of the holy Land, where they will be His witnesses; John 15:27 and will display His glory to the nations; Matthew 5:14-16

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Do a thread on the two 'houses'. The majority here don't study their Old Testament so they don't have a clue about the two houses mentioned in God's Word.