How many times can one be regenerated?

GodsGrace101 · Mar 6, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
While it may seem to say that, it doesn't say that. Peter is directly and plainly telling believers to GROW UP in respect to salvation.

iow, this is about spiritual growth. When a person believes and is converted, they aren't spiritually mature. Not by a long shot. They need to grow up spiritually, just as a newborn baby needs to grow up physically.

While this isn't wrong, this isn't the point of either verse.

The words "in the faith" is a refence to the body of what is believed (or should be). Only by studying the Word, like the newborn on milk, will the believer begin to grow up, by learning all the doctrines and principles that teach about how to live the Christian life. New believers have no clue. They need to be taught.

2 Tim 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching (doctrine), rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Do you see the sequence here? Paul started with the foundation; doctrinal teaching. From that, one is rebuked for their sinful lives. Then comes correcting of errors and mistakes about the Word. And finally training in righteousness. This is spiritual growth.

But I've noticed that the OSNAS crowd doesn't have a grip on the basics of Christian living. They deny that a believer can be out of fellowship because of sin, and need to be restored to fellowship. This is probably where they get off track and misunderstand loss of fellowship as loss of salvation.

What if I NEVER grow in my spiritual life?
What if I remain at the milk stage?

Also, I don't believe being OUT OF FELLOWSHIP, as you call it, means we have lost our salvation. This can happen due to sin, but we do not lose our salvation due to this.

The reason why we would LOSE OUR FAITH, and thus lose our salvation would be because we are NO LONGER IN FAITH...we no longer believe...we no longer are IN CHRIST. Jesus said if we do not abide in Him,,,we will be thrown away as a branch, we will dry up, gathered, and cast into the fire and burned.
John 15:6
This is not loss of fellowship...
This is loss of our salvation.

If we are IN CHRIST...we are saved.
If we are NOT IN CHRIST....we are no longer saved.

I think we've spoken enough and I can see that you do not accept the word of God in its plain and clear state.

I've noticed two ideas that the OSAS crowd has and I just cannot fight this fight.

1. The loss is of fellowship and not salvation.
2. The person was never saved to begin with.

If we cannot agree on these two premises, it becomes difficult to continue.

The 3 denominations of which I am familiar DO believe in loss of salvation.
I wonder which denomination does not...would you be willing to say?
I find this rather incredible TT Y TT.

If you don't grow in th faith, just like 2 Tim 3:16, you will not progress and get to training in righteousness. And such believers will NOT "be presented blameless" before Him.

So if I don't grow up in the faith,
I will not progress in righteousness,
and I will NOT be presented blameless before God....

So what am I trusting Jesus for?
What you believe is WORSE than what the CC believes!
It's WORSE than OSNAS!
You're telling me I'm lost if I don't make progress....what if I never get one bible lesson in my whole life?

YOU are a real legalist !

And I thought we were NOT depending on our own righteousness but on the righteousness imputed to us by Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

GodsGrace101 · Mar 6, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
I said:
"Do you mean that Jesus wasn't correct when He said that those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH??

This is about purpose, not salvation. Salt has a purpose, which is to give food "taste", so it will not be bland.

When salt loses its savor, it has no further purpose. So, to be "thrown out" doesn't mean "loses salvation", but rather, is no longer useful to God for service.

To twist Matt 5:13 into a "loss of salvation" verse, is to accept the view that salvation must be earned by works.

As Corinth 77777 aptly noted in her response to your post."

It sure doesn't. It's about purpose. Not salvation.

If you or someone could actually quote a verse that says "thrown out of the kingdom", then you'd have a point. Do you have a point?

The verse doesn't say. It's about being discarded from use. But it seems to me you just won't "go there" and admit it.

No, it sounds like a very BIG matter.

For any believer to be discarded from use only means that their life on earth will not be pleasant, and they will have no rewards in eternity.

Again, of course it's no small matter. But do you understand what "steadfastness" means or refers to? It seems not.

The word refers to continuing in the faith. It does NOT mean to be saved.

I never said this verse did.

Now, try to relate that to the state of being saved, if you can.

Sounds nice, but since Satan took over the world when Adam gave it to him when he rebelled, we know God isn't interested in cleaning up the planet. That's something He Himself will do after the Millennium. See Rev 21:1

And none of these words say anything about being thrown into hell, or out of the kingdom, or anything else that would indicate loss of salvation.

But at least you are finally acknowledging the concept of "purpose".

Of course becoming a member of the kingdom begins right here on earth. Where else would it begin? No one is saved after they die and enter eternity.

Can't handle two posts.
But if one is thrown out of the Kingdom...
WERE does he end up? There's just one other place.

If one does not continue in the faith,,,he cannot be saved.

Romans 11:21-22
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Paul is repeating and teaching what Jesus said in John 15:6
IF we DO NOT CONTINUE in God's kindness...we will be cut off.
If we DO NOT ABIDE IN CHRIST....we will be thrown away and cast into the fire.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 6, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
What if I NEVER grow in my spiritual life?
What if I remain at the milk stage?

Just like Peter's analogy to milk, if you don't nourish your born again nature, it won't develop or mature. The author of Hebrews spoke about this:
5:12-14
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Also, I don't believe being OUT OF FELLOWSHIP, as you call it, means we have lost our salvation.

Good, because it isn't.

This can happen due to sin, but we do not lose our salvation due to this.

Actually, we can't lose our salvation for any reason.

The reason why we would LOSE OUR FAITH, and thus lose our salvation would be because we are NO LONGER IN FAITH...we no longer believe...we no longer are IN CHRIST.

This is just speculation. Where is the best verse that actually says any of this?

Jesus said if we do not abide in Him,,,we will be thrown away as a branch, we will dry up, gathered, and cast into the fire and burned.
John 15:6

This passage is about fruit production, not salvation. Again, to "abide" is about fellowship.

This is not loss of fellowship...
This is loss of our salvation.

Then please provide the best verse that actually says what you keep claiming.

If we are IN CHRIST...we are saved.

Right. And Eph 1:13,14 makes very clear that Once Sealed, Always Sealed, or OSAS.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Do you agree that the Holy Spirit, who is described as a seal, is a mark of being God's possession? Yes or no?

If yes, then there should be no confusion about what "a deposit GUARANTEEING our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession". This is nothing other than eternal security.

Once sealed, the believer is guaranteed their inheritance.

If we are NOT IN CHRIST....we are no longer saved.

Here's the rub. All unbelievers are "not in Christ". Why? Because they never believed. One must believe in order to be placed in Christ. Eph 1:13.

What verse makes very clear that a sealed believer can become UNsealed? There aren't any. That's the only way to prove your claim.

I think we've spoken enough and I can see that you do not accept the word of God in its plain and clear state.

No, I don't accept your words, because they do not line up with Scripture.

If you CAN provide a verse that actually says what you claim, then you would have a point.

I've noticed two ideas that the OSAS crowd has and I just cannot fight this fight.

1. The loss is of fellowship and not salvation.

You can't fight this idea because it is solidly biblical, and you seem unwilling to accept it.

2. The person was never saved to begin with.

That would be someone who NEVER believed.

If we cannot agree on these two premises, it becomes difficult to continue.

I've supported my beliefs from Scripture, but you keepl balking at the concept of fellowship.

The 3 denominations of which I am familiar DO believe in loss of salvation.
I wonder which denomination does not...would you be willing to say?

I have no idea, so being "willing" isn't even in play. Why would you be impressed with "denominations" that believe something? Does the Bible speak of denominations? No. Just keep looking to the Bible and forget what "denominations" teach.

I find this rather incredible TT Y TT.

This seems to be some kind of code, but I don't have my de-coder with me. Sorry.

So if I don't grow up in the faith,

I will not progress in righteousness,
and I will NOT be presented blameless before God....

See? Not so difficult to understand.

So what am I trusting Jesus for?

Wow. For salvation, of course. Just consider the alternative. Bummer.

What you believe is WORSE than what the CC believes!
It's WORSE than OSNAS!
You're telling me I'm lost if I don't make progress....what if I never get one bible lesson in my whole life?

Wow. You really don't understand what I've posted. I've NEVER EVER said that a saved person can become lost.

When you said "If we cannot agree on these two premises, it becomes difficult to continue.", you are right. And I can't seem to get through to you on these points.

YOU are a real legalist !

That is preposterous! I would say you don't understand what a legalist is either.

And I thought we were NOT depending on our own righteousness but on the righteousness imputed to us by Jesus.

That is exactly right!! And I've always made that clear in my posts.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Amen.

I'm very sorry that your understanding of my points isn't even close to what I've said.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 6, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
Can't handle two posts.
But if one is thrown out of the Kingdom...
WERE does he end up? There's just one other place.

Where does any verse say that someone is thrown out of the kingdom?

If one does not continue in the faith,,,he cannot be saved.

You keep repeating yourself, but always come up short on clear verses that say that.

Romans 11:21-22
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Paul is repeating and teaching what Jesus said in John 15:6
IF we DO NOT CONTINUE in God's kindness...we will be cut off.
If we DO NOT ABIDE IN CHRIST....we will be thrown away and cast into the fire.

Since you have made it clear that you don't agree with the idea of fellowship, there really is no point in further discussion. Both Rom 11 and John 6 are about fellowship.

But you are free to suit yourself.

But what you don't have is clear verses that say what you believe.

GodsGrace101 · Mar 6, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Just like Peter's analogy to milk, if you don't nourish your born again nature, it won't develop or mature. The author of Hebrews spoke about this:
5:12-14
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Good, because it isn't.

Actually, we can't lose our salvation for any reason.

This is just speculation. Where is the best verse that actually says any of this?

This passage is about fruit production, not salvation. Again, to "abide" is about fellowship.

Then please provide the best verse that actually says what you keep claiming.

Right. And Eph 1:13,14 makes very clear that Once Sealed, Always Sealed, or OSAS.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Do you agree that the Holy Spirit, who is described as a seal, is a mark of being God's possession? Yes or no?

If yes, then there should be no confusion about what "a deposit GUARANTEEING our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession". This is nothing other than eternal security.

Once sealed, the believer is guaranteed their inheritance.

Here's the rub. All unbelievers are "not in Christ". Why? Because they never believed. One must believe in order to be placed in Christ. Eph 1:13.

What verse makes very clear that a sealed believer can become UNsealed? There aren't any. That's the only way to prove your claim.

No, I don't accept your words, because they do not line up with Scripture.

If you CAN provide a verse that actually says what you claim, then you would have a point.

You can't fight this idea because it is solidly biblical, and you seem unwilling to accept it.

That would be someone who NEVER believed.

I've supported my beliefs from Scripture, but you keepl balking at the concept of fellowship.

I have no idea, so being "willing" isn't even in play. Why would you be impressed with "denominations" that believe something? Does the Bible speak of denominations? No. Just keep looking to the Bible and forget what "denominations" teach.

This seems to be some kind of code, but I don't have my de-coder with me. Sorry.

See? Not so difficult to understand.

Wow. For salvation, of course. Just consider the alternative. Bummer.

Wow. You really don't understand what I've posted. I've NEVER EVER said that a saved person can become lost.

When you said "If we cannot agree on these two premises, it becomes difficult to continue.", you are right. And I can't seem to get through to you on these points.

That is preposterous! I would say you don't understand what a legalist is either.

That is exactly right!! And I've always made that clear in my posts.

Amen.

I'm very sorry that your understanding of my points isn't even close to what I've said.

Yes, FG, we really do speak past each other.
Just one comment....
Re your statement in red above regarding the guarantee of the Holy Spirit...
The word is not GUARANTEE.
The word is EARNEST.

You could find out what this means.
It's late here and I'll be saying good night.

BTW,,, where's the verse that says that NO MATTER WHAT...a person remains saved? It doesn't exist because it's not true.

GodsGrace101 · Mar 6, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Where does any verse say that someone is thrown out of the kingdom?

You keep repeating yourself, but always come up short on clear verses that say that.

Since you have made it clear that you don't agree with the idea of fellowship, there really is no point in further discussion. Both Rom 11 and John 6 are about fellowship.

But you are free to suit yourself.

But what you don't have is clear verses that say what you believe.

Thrown out of the Kingdom....
Tomorrow morning I'll list a lot of verses for you that show salvation to be CONDITIONAL.

We must accept God's rules to become saved...
We must accept God's rules to stay saved...

'night.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 6, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
Yes, FG, we really do speak past each other.

No kidding!

Just one comment....
Re your statement in red above regarding the guarantee of the Holy Spirit...
The word is not GUARANTEE.
The word is EARNEST.

Please research the word 'earnest' and you'll see that it MEANS a guarantee. And why did most of the Greek scholars translate the word as "guarantee"? Were they just making up stuff as they went?

You could find out what this means.

I know what it means.

It's late here and I'll be saying good night.

Good night to you.

BTW,,, where's the verse that says that NO MATTER WHAT...a person remains saved? It doesn't exist because it's not true.

I never asked for specific words, as you are doing here. I ask for clear and plain language that SAYS what you keep claiming.

As to "no matter what", why don't you accept John 10:28? Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.

If there were some kind of "matter what", where is it? It isn't there.

The plain meaning of v.28 is that on the basis of being given the gift of eternal life, the believer shall NEVER perish. It is that simple.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 6, 2020

GodsGrace101 said:
Thrown out of the Kingdom....
Tomorrow morning I'll list a lot of verses for you that show salvation to be CONDITIONAL.

I await eagerly.

We must accept God's rules to become saved...
We must accept God's rules to stay saved...

'night.

God never gave any "rules" for getting or staying saved. But I'm interested in what verses you think actually says this.

'night.

JLB777 · Mar 6, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
The number of times this opinion is repeated doesn't make any difference to the truth.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Are you saying a person who believes for a while then no longer believes is still saved?

JLB

JLB777 · Mar 6, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Please research the word 'earnest' and you'll see that it MEANS a guarantee.

It means a down payment.

It certainly doesn’t “guarantee” a Christian can live in disobedience to Jesus Christ and be “guaranteed” eternal salvation.

Only those who obey Him will receive eternal salvation.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

Trying to redefine the passage by using a modern day definition of the original word is a tactic that we have witnessed you doing for quite some time now.

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Mar 7, 2020

JLB777 said:
Are you saying a person who believes for a while then no longer believes is still saved?

Of course I am. Can you quote even ONE verse that actually teaches that salvation is removed if a person ceases to believe?

No, you can't. Because the Bible doesn't teach that.

Quite the opposite. Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. All in one breath, in John 10:28.

I know how you have vainly tried to force some kind of condition on never perishing from v.27, but such exegesis fails to properly understand the words themselves.

There are NO conditions in either v.27 or v.28. v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO, or a policy statement of what they OUGHT to do. v.28 is a direct statement of how to never perish: being given the gift of eternal life.

This cannot be refutes. It is straight forward.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 7, 2020

JLB777 said:
It means a down payment.

It means a whole lot more than that. I got this straight from biblehub.com:

HELPS Word-studies
728 arrhabṓn – properly, an installment; a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price).

This is why the common translation of arrabon is "guarantees".

iow, when God places His Holy Spirit in the believer at the moment of faith in Christ, that is a mark or seal on the believer as God's possession, and this "down payment" GUARANTEES THE BALANCE. When does this occur? The day of redemption, just as v.14 SAYS.

It certainly doesn’t “guarantee” a Christian can live in disobedience to Jesus Christ and be “guaranteed” eternal salvation.

Yes, it does. Your argument is based on your own emotions and opinions, but not the Word of God.

Only those who obey Him will receive eternal salvation.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

Again, from biblehub.com-

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5219 hypakoúō (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 191 /akoúō, "hear") – properly, to obey what is heard (literally, "under hearing"). See 5218(hypakoē).

5219 /hypakoúō ("obey") is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order). 5219 /hypakoúō ("to hearken, obey") suggests attentively listening, i.e. fully compliant (responsive).

[5219 (hypakoúō) is an "intensification" of the simple verb "to listen" (191/akoúō, "hear").]

The point of this word is to believe what is heard. You have to ignore ALL the many verses about believing for eternal life/salvation in order to keep holding on to Heb 5:9 as some kind of salvation by works.

Trying to redefine the passage by using a modern day definition of the original word is a tactic that we have witnessed you doing for quite some time now.

I've been quoting from bible hub.com which uses the actual Greek word.

In fact, it is you who has been redefining words and passages in ordef to fit into your own opinions and theology.

JLB777 · Mar 7, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Of course I am. Can you quote even ONE verse that actually teaches that salvation is removed if a person ceases to believe?

Thanks for admitting that those who no longer believe and fall away are still saved.

You are teaching “the lie”, that Satan taught Eve in the garden.

Go ahead and disobey God, you won’t die...

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Your teaching a doctrine of demons, which causes God’s people to depart from the faith.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

JLB

JLB777 · Mar 7, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Yes, it does. Your argument is based on your own emotions and opinions, but not the Word of God.

Sorry but your opinion is totally refuted by the scriptures.

Christians who live is disobedience (sin), do not remain “in Christ”, nor do the inherit the kingdom of God.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

All who obey Him.

Not all who disobey Him.

Those who are in Him, but don’t remain in Him, are cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Mar 7, 2020

JLB777 said:
Thanks for admitting that those who no longer believe and fall away are still saved.

You're welcome. But I've always believed and claimed that. :scratch:

You are teaching “the lie”, that Satan taught Eve in the garden.

Hardly. Satan has taught the multitudes that one has to work for salvation, earn it by hard work. So knock yourself out.

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Did you notice that in v.12 Paul was very clear about who will be condemned? It is those who NEVER believed.

Your teaching a doctrine of demons, which causes God’s people to depart from the faith.

Actually, that's on you. Many people who have accepted the demonic doctrine that salvation can be lost have ultimately given up and left the faith, because they knew they couldn't cut it.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

I've never taught anything that would lead anyone to leave the faith, unless it was the teaching about God's divine discipline, that is PAINFUL (Heb 12:11) and includes physical death (1 Cor 11:30, 1 John 5:16), which scares them off.

The weird thing is that in spite of my teaching about God's discipline, I keep getting charged with teaching "antinomianism", which is absurd.

FreeGrace2 · Mar 7, 2020

I said:
"Yes, it does. Your argument is based on your own emotions and opinions, but not the Word of God."

JLB777 said:
Sorry but your opinion is totally refuted by the scriptures.

More opinion from you.

Christians who live is disobedience (sin), do not remain “in Christ”, nor do the inherit the kingdom of God.

Wrong on several counts.

First, no believer can be, or has been, "removed from Christ". This is clear from Eph 1:13,14, which people reject.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Second, you continue to confuse inheriting the kingdom with ENTERING the kingdom. Not even close. Many believers will ENTER the kingdom, but few will inherit the kingdom, which means to "reign with Christ".
2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us; (the reward for enduring).

Same concept as found in Rom 8:17 - Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

ENTERING the kingdom is based on being a child of God. And NO Scripture teaches that believers can become UN-children of God. That would be preposterous.

But, "sharing in His glory" is the same thing as "reigning with Him". And that is conditional on sharing in His sufferings, which is the same as "enduring".

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
All who obey Him.

I explained from the Greek what the word means. You should at least read it.

Those who are in Him, but don’t remain in Him, are cast into the fire and burned.

FALLACY alert!! No way to exit Him. Eph 1:13,14 is a guarantee for God's possession, those who are indwell with the Spirit, for the day of redemption.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

This is about fellowship for fruit bearing.

Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Again, fellowship.

Click to expand...

JLB777 · Mar 8, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
You're welcome. But I've always believed and claimed that.

Yes, we see you believe that a person that has returned to unbelieving is still somehow saved.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

JLB

JLB777 · Mar 8, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
I said:
"Yes, it does. Your argument is based on your own emotions and opinions, but not the Word of God."

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

No argument, just pure truth.

Do you believe that those who disobey Him will receive eternal salvation?

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Mar 8, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes, we see you believe that a person that has returned to unbelieving is still somehow saved.

And I'm very happy to explain to you WHY that is.

At the moment of faith in Christ, these things are said to occur:
1. regeneration (born again, new birth)
2. salvation
3. possession of eternal life.
4. justified
5. sealed with the Holy Spirit (OSAS- oncd sealed, always sealed)
6. become a child of God

Those who have all of these things are SAVED. Now, if salvation could be lost, you have to prove from Scripture that ALL of these things are reversed, removed, lost, returned, etc. You get the picture.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

We've been over this many times.

The FIRST 2 items on this list have to do with lack of faith. This is a list of those who never believed, because the verse ends with the second death, which is ultimate condemnation.

And both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teaches that condemnation is for those who "HAVE NOT BELIEVED", which is the same as saying "HAVE NEVER BELIEVED".

FreeGrace2 · Mar 8, 2020

JLB777 said:
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

No argument, just pure truth.

Do you believe that those who disobey Him will receive eternal salvation?
JLB

If you define "obey" as meaning placing one's faith in Christ alone, then disobey means to NOT believe in Him. And I agree with that.

But if you put any kind of lifestyle, works, deeds, etc into what "obey" means, then NO, I absolutely disagree with that.

How many times can one be regenerated?

How many times can one be regenerated?

Only once, since I take it to mean a birth liken to physical.

As many times as you are restored from a fallen state

As many of times until I feel His presence everyday

I don't know, I dont understand what born again really is

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