Can a Born Again Christian go backwards

Phil W · Mar 5, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us...

According to Phil this no longer applies.

If God has forgiven our sins, why on earth would we commit MORE sins?

timothyu · Mar 5, 2020

Phil W said:
and His will is being done on earth as it is in heaven now.

His will is we love all including enemy as self. Not happening.

Phil W · Mar 5, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
K Phil,
My opinion is you don’t understand what it means when it says the flesh is crucified. If you get a day without sinning I would be shocked, but if that’s your journey go for it.
Peace with you

Is there sin "in Christ"? NO
Are we not "in Christ"? YES
So how can we be "in Christ" with sin on us?
It can't happen.

My flesh was crucified, with the affections and lusts, when I was "immersed" into Christ's death. (Rom 6:3-6)
The results are listed in verse 7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

Phil W · Mar 5, 2020

timothyu said:
His will is we love all including enemy as self. Not happening.

If you are not doing His will, whose will are you doing?

timothyu · Mar 5, 2020

Phil W said:
If you are not doing His will, whose will are you doing?

Personally speaking i'm trying to keep to the love all as self path. That is definitely not the default path of mankind or most Christians, especially the politically minded IMO. Theirs is the path of self interest, the adversarial spirit to God.

Carl Emerson · Mar 5, 2020

Phil, what church do you attend ? Do they preach sinless perfection?

Oldmantook · Mar 6, 2020

JIMINZ said:
Technically, an Unrepentant Prodigal, is not a Prodigal at all, for only true Prodigals do return and Repent.

Does this mean, an Unrepentant Prodigal, in actual fact was never a SON at all, for only a true Son, has the ability to return to HIS FATHERS house and Repent.

Technically, prodigal by definition means wastefully or recklessly extravagant so the term itself has nothing to do with your claim that only true prodigals return and repent. A prodigal can spend his/her whole life being a prodigal evidencing no repentance.
As far as text goes, the prodigal is described as a son who dwelled in his father's house who once possessed his inheritance from his father. Thus to claim that the prodigal was never a true son goes against the details of the story.

Oldmantook · Mar 6, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Frankly I find your question insulting.

You obviously have no idea what I am talking about or you would never need to keep asking such a question.

The Law of the spirit within far surpasses any written Law because Jesus personally indicates through His spirit within what is appropriate for every given circumstance - something the Law could never do.

Here is an example..

Rahab is commended for her faith in saving the spies by lying to the soldiers who would certainly have killed them. Had she followed the written Law and refused to bear false witness it would not have been an act of faith. That which is not of faith is sin.

How many times do I have to repeat that the written Law has past its use by date.

The Law of the Spirit within combined with the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord keeps us from straying to the point of loosing salvation. The Love of God within controls and constrains us for righteousness sake. We are motivated to good fruit by hearing and obeying the heart desires He gives. If we stray He will bring us back because we have been transferred into His kingdom, adopted as sons and daughters. He clearly states at the end of Jude that He keeps us from falling and presents us faultless.

Have you received the Holy Spirit and His Living Law within?

Have you experienced His constraining Love and His terrible Fear that keeps you on the rails?

If you have you will not need to revert to the dead letter, rather you will hear a voice behind you saying this is the way walk ye in it. The voice of the shepherd who knows you by name.

So where does the Scripture fit into all of this.

Without the spirit it is of no value because the truth is spiritually discerned.

By His grace through His inner voice, the Scripture is made alive by the personal Word of the author.

You find the question insulting yet you refuse to answer it. How ironic. Moreover you have failed to respond or deal with any of the texts I previously cited which contradict your view. Why is that? I prefer to believe Jesus instead of your view when He plainly stated that He did "not come to abolish the Law and the prophets" and that "until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
I prefer to take Jesus at His word and it's your prerogative to minimize or ignore Jesus' words.

Carl Emerson · Mar 6, 2020

Oldmantook said:
You find the question insulting yet you refuse to answer it. How ironic. Moreover you have failed to respond or deal with any of the texts I previously cited which contradict your view. Why is that? I prefer to believe Jesus instead of your view when He plainly stated that He did "not come to abolish the Law and the prophets" and that "until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
I prefer to take Jesus at His word and it's your prerogative to minimize or ignore Jesus' words.

Utter nonsense...

I answered your question more than once.

You cant dialogue without insulting my walk with Jesus and judging my integrity because I refuse to agree with your theology.

Have a nice day.

Phil W · Mar 6, 2020

timothyu said:
Personally speaking i'm trying to keep to the love all as self path. That is definitely not the default path of mankind or most Christians, especially the politically minded IMO. Theirs is the path of self interest, the adversarial spirit to God.

You've got to realize that those NOT on your path are not really Christians.
God, in all His power, is on your side, in every effort where you show your love for Him and others.

Phil W · Mar 6, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Phil, what church do you attend ? Do they preach sinless perfection?

Our church is called...The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)...
We do preach perfect obedience to God.

Oldmantook · Mar 6, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Utter nonsense...

I answered your question more than once.

You cant dialogue without insulting my walk with Jesus and judging my integrity because I refuse to agree with your theology.

Have a nice day.

Need I point out to you the obvious? Your obfuscation continues. I asked you the "insulting" question whether murder, stealing, lying, coveting is okay now since you believe that the law is annulled precisely because it illustrates the absurdity of your view. Obviously we all know that those sins are not okay. However if you bothered to answer the question directly with a simple yes - those sins are not okay, for you or anybody - then by default you would have to acknowledge that the 10 Commandments which are part of the Law still do apply today. That admission would then destroy your contention that the Law is annulled. Any further questions??

Carl Emerson · Mar 6, 2020

Oldmantook said:
Need I point out to you the obvious? Your obfuscation continues. I asked you the "insulting" question whether murder, stealing, lying, coveting is okay now since you believe that the law is annulled precisely because it illustrates the absurdity of your view. Obviously we all know that those sins are not okay. However if you bothered to answer the question directly with a simple yes - those sins are not okay, for you or anybody - then by default you would have to acknowledge that the 10 Commandments which are part of the Law still do apply today. That admission would then destroy your contention that the Law is annulled. Any further questions??

No further questions.

As for me I enjoy a better covenant with better promises that you seem to fail to understand.

Carl Emerson · Mar 6, 2020

Phil W said:
Our church is called...The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)...
We do preach perfect obedience to God.

Smells like a cult. How you can claim perfection blows me away - even Paul didn't claim that.

Oldmantook · Mar 6, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
No further questions.

As for me I enjoy a better covenant with better promises that you seem to fail to understand.

Suit yourself.

JIMINZ · Mar 6, 2020

MBowen said:
The Law of the Spirit of Christ, which Carl mentioned, is Holy Spirit Power for caring and for virtue. Jesus will look for fruit in others' lives, which He can clock to our account.

MBowen said:
That is the only kingdom. For instance, some who were called, will be somehow just about saved but not enter the kingdom.

WOW!! Really not enter?
Can you verify any of that?

Phil W · Mar 6, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Smells like a cult. How you can claim perfection blows me away - even Paul didn't claim that.

Isn't every sect a cult at one time or another?
Christianity was a cult in it's first years.
As for Paul. he wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."...The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
And..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
Perfect obedience to God was in his wheelhouse.

Carl Emerson · Mar 6, 2020

Phil W said:
Isn't every sect a cult at one time or another?

NO

Phil W said:
Christianity was a cult in it's first years.

NO

Phil W said:
As for Paul. he wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."...The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
And..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
Perfect obedience to God was in his wheelhouse.

Stop trying to sow the lie that folks who don't agree with your 'being perfect' theology promote sinning.

It is such a disgusting claim that only those who hold to your arrogant 'sinless perfection' are saved. This 'dividing of the body' is warned against in 1 Cor 11:28-32 and has severe consequences.

1 John 2:1

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father— Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

What could be more clear than that.

And Paul plainly states here that he has NOT attained perfection.

Phil 3:8-

I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Please heed the Word and drop your claim of being sinless and perfect and demanding that others attain to this self righteousness or be condemned.

The stakes are high for those who presume to teach others.

Carl Emerson · Mar 6, 2020

Phil W said:
We can still open the prayer as Jesus instructed,

He provides our daily "bread" and has forgiven the trespasses of us that have turned from sin as we are to forgive those who sin against us.

This is NOT what the text says.

The Greek in Luke 11:4 renders 'forgive us the sins of us' This is a request not a declaration of a matter already accomplished.

The expectation from the Lord's prayer is that followers will sin and ask forgiveness.

Further more this is presented as being a daily prayer...

Carl Emerson · Mar 6, 2020

Peter clearly sinned and was rebuked by Paul...

Gal 2:11

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

No 'sinless perfection' in Peters life...

Phil W... are you greater than Peter?

Can a Born Again Christian go backwards

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