Adventist end time beliefs?

Dave L · Mar 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
God didn't think so----He made them different and stored them differently. That is your opinion. If the 10 are done away with--- there is no sin and if there is no sin, no savior is needed.

Good people don't need law. And only the born again (good people) belong to Christ in the New Covenant.

Dave L · Mar 6, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
In that case the entire Torah (law) wood have to be jettisoned.

The New Covenant interprets it.

Dave L · Mar 6, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
Tempered with Christ's teaching on Sabbath-keeping, Nehemiah 13:15-22 teaches that unnecessary commercial activity on the Sabbath profanes it.

Do you watch TV on Saturday? Radio?

mmksparbud · Mar 6, 2020

summerville said:
Obviously you disagree.

The worldwide flood described in Genesis 6-9 is not historical, but rather a combination of at least two flood stories, both of which descended from earlier Mesopotamian flood narratives. Note that this does not mean all of the claims made in the Bible are false (or true for that matter); I am dealing here only with the biblical stories of the flood. (Also understand that the "slippery slope" claim of "all of the Bible is true or none of it is true" is simply an unnecessary rhetorical device designed to keep readers from doing precisely what scholars do every day: analyze each claim in the Bible on a case-by-case basis. It is not necessary to accept an "all or none" stance towards the Bible.)

Snip

hese flood stories appear to have been transmitted to the Israelites early in Israel's history. Contact between the Assyrians and the Israelites is known from the conquest of Israel and its capitol, Samaria, in 721 BCE by Assyrian King Shalmaneser V (727-722 BCE),[8] and from the attempted conquest of Jerusalem by the Assyrian King Sennacherib (704-681 BCE).

These stories were apparently modified to conform to a monotheistic faith, but retained characteristics such as the destruction of nearly all living things via a flood, the salvation of a select few people and animals by the construction of a boat, and the regret of the deity for the flood, prompting a promise not to do so again. Thus, like many of the early stories in Israel's primordial history, the flood story appears to be an adaptation and integration of a previously known myth into the theology of Israel.

Most scholars will point out that the biblical flood story is actually two flood epics intertwined into one.

However, unlike the two biblical creation stories (Genesis 1:1-2:4a and Genesis 2:4b-25), which were set one after the other in the Hebrew Bible, the two original flood stories appear to have been edited into a single narrative.

The combined story preserves vestigial indicators that the account was originally two separate narratives. For example, Genesis 6:19-20 states that there were to be one pair of each species of animal on the ark, one male and one female:

And of every living thing, of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every kind shall come in to you, to keep them alive.

The Bible and Interpretation - Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood

You are free to have your believes as I am free to have4 mine. You will never stand before me to be judged, we all face God for our believes. Jesus and the disciples believed in it and so do I. As far as the flood and the animals---it says there were to be
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

I do not get my believes from Wicki or other such places but from the bible. You can get them from wherever you wish.

mmksparbud · Mar 6, 2020

Dave L said:
Good people don't need law. And only the born again (good people) belong to Christ in the New Covenant.

The law is only a mirror --- it does not save---Jesus does. We will all have to face our God one day. And you can explain to Him how the law does not apply to you. I'd rather hear Him say---you didn't need to go that far instead of why didn't you do what I asked? He died for me, I am not looking for how little I can do for Him, but how much. He gave everything for me, He has my whole heart and nothing is too big a deal to do. I've had too many answered prayers to shortchange Him now. You life is your own to make.

Jesse Johnson · Mar 6, 2020

Dave L said:
Good people don't need law. And only the born again (good people) belong to Christ in the New Covenant.

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:17
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psalms 53:3
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:12
The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Micah 7:2

Total depravity

Jesse Johnson · Mar 6, 2020

God removes His hand and we all start killing each other instantly.
That is, if He still allows us to draw breath.

summerville · Mar 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
You are free to have your believes as I am free to have4 mine. You will never stand before me to be judged, we all face God for our believes. Jesus and the disciples believed in it and so do I. As far as the flood and the animals---it says there were to be
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

I do not get my believes from Wicki or other such places but from the bible. You can get them from wherever you wish.

I don't get my beliefs from Wiki either. I get my beliefs from 70 years of Sunday School and Church and that many years studying the Bible, ancient history and archaeology.

It was important to me to do so, because I knew in grade school that Jonah wasn't swallowed by a fish any more than Geppetto was.

I have never thought a person had to park their brain at the church door or reject science and education to be a Christian..

In fact, the first time I experienced a swarm of millions of locusts that blotted out the sun, I was about 7 and utterly shocked that the young mothers were so fearful that it was a sign for the end of the world.

mmksparbud · Mar 6, 2020

summerville said:
I don't get my beliefs from Wiki either. I get my beliefs from 70 years of Sunday School and Church and that many years studying the Bible, ancient history and archaeology.

It was important to me to do so, because I knew in grade school that Jonah wasn't swallowed by a fish any more than Geppetto was.

I have never thought a person had to park their brain at the church door or reject science and education to be a Christian..

In fact, the first time I experienced a swarm of millions of locusts that blotted out the sun, I was about 7 and utterly shocked that the young mothers were so fearful that it was a sign for the end of the world.

That is your opinion, mine is different and Jesus' is also for He mentioned Jonah and it wasn't to put him down either. No, Christians do not park their brains outside the church, but they don't park them in the pocket of unbelief either. I believe the bible to be literal unless it explicitly says otherwise. Sometimes there are parables and sometimes prophecies and poetic language. You learn to tell the difference but I will not toss it in the trash over what the world has to say.

Jesse Johnson · Mar 6, 2020

summerville said:
I don't get my beliefs from Wiki either. I get my beliefs from 70 years of Sunday School and Church and that many years studying the Bible, ancient history and archaeology.

It was important to me to do so, because I knew in grade school that Jonah wasn't swallowed by a fish any more than Geppetto was.

I have never thought a person had to park their brain at the church door or reject science and education to be a Christian..

In fact, the first time I experienced a swarm of millions of locusts that blotted out the sun, I was about 7 and utterly shocked that the young mothers were so fearful that it was a sign for the end of the world.

Who decides which parts of the Bible can be trusted?
If I can't believe all of it, how can I believe any of it?
How can I believe God came to earth as a man, paid the ultimate price for the sins of so many and was raised from the dead and caught back up to Heaven if I can't even believe He could create a big fish to swallow a man?
As has been alluded to already, I wouldn't dare deny a soul his/her religious liberty, but I guess it's all right if we reason together, isn't it?

(And we're definitely getting off-topic, but I don't mind a little diversion if no one else does.)

summerville · Mar 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
That is your opinion, mine is different and Jesus' is also for He mentioned Jonah and it wasn't to put him down either. No, Christians do not park their brains outside the church, but they don't park them in the pocket of unbelief either. I believe the bible to be literal unless it explicitly says otherwise. Sometimes there are parables and sometimes prophecies and poetic language. You learn to tell the difference but I will not toss it in the trash over what the world has to say.

The Book of Jonah is a comic novella to illustrate the problem of xenophobia and that God loves even the people of Nineveh.

Nobody said to "toss it in the trash"... and nobody put Jonah down.. Why do you think Jonah was being "put down"?

Dave L · Mar 6, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:17
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psalms 53:3
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:12
The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Micah 7:2

Total depravity

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

mmksparbud · Mar 6, 2020

summerville said:
The Book of Jonah is a comic novella to illustrate the problem of xenophobia and that God loves even the people of Nineveh.

Nobody said to "toss it in the trash".

If that is what you want to believe---Jesus didn't seem to agree with you. But then, does Jesus exist for you?? Or is He a figment of someone's imagination also? After all, He walks on water and heals lepers and demoniacs, died for our sins-------pretty nutty stuff.

Dave L · Mar 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
The law is only a mirror --- it does not save---Jesus does. We will all have to face our God one day. And you can explain to Him how the law does not apply to you. I'd rather hear Him say---you didn't need to go that far instead of why didn't you do what I asked? He died for me, I am not looking for how little I can do for Him, but how much. He gave everything for me, He has my whole heart and nothing is too big a deal to do. I've had too many answered prayers to shortchange Him now. You life is your own to make.

Face it, Al Capone kept the law when it was to his advantage. But he could not keep the Two Great Commandments unless first born again.

mmksparbud · Mar 6, 2020

Dave L said:
Face it, Al Capone kept the law when it was to his advantage. But he could not keep the Two Great Commandments unless first born again.

What's there to face? He couldn't keep any of them without Jesus. Neither can we. It is Jesus that saves.

Dave L · Mar 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
What's there to face? He couldn't keep any of them without Jesus. Neither can we. It is Jesus that saves.

The Ten Commandments were for those without Jesus.

summerville · Mar 6, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
Who decides which parts of the Bible can be trusted?
If I can't believe all of it, how can I believe any of it?
How can I believe God came to earth as a man, paid the ultimate price for the sins of so many and was raised from the dead and caught back up to Heaven if I can't even believe He could create a big fish to swallow a man?
As has been alluded to already, I wouldn't dare deny a soul his/her religious liberty, but I guess it's all right if we reason together, isn't it?

(And we're definitely getting off-topic, but I don't mind a little diversion if no one else does.)

You're not alone in your all or nothing perspective.

The story of Jonah is like the Little Engine That Could.. It illustrates a valuable lesson but isn't necessarily a history lesson.. Fiction has often taught us a moral lesson.

Jesse Johnson · Mar 6, 2020

Dave L said:
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

How readest thou?

Dave L · Mar 7, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
How readest thou?

People who are born again hate sin and love holiness. It is their nature not to sin. Law only forces the flesh to comply without a change of heart.

Gary K · Mar 19, 2020

Dave L said:
The Ten Commandments were for those without Jesus.

Where do you find that in Scripture? Jesus is the 10 commandments for He kept them perfectly and He is love. Love and God's law go hand in hand in Jesus. And Jesus said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.

So, if we truly have Jesus in our lives we also have the law in our lives. You cannot separate Jesus from God's law.

Adventist end time beliefs?

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