Which came first: Adam or the Child Adam?

Josheb said:

SO does assuming a person is insincere when they are sincere. Mt. 7:23, pinacled. I meant what I said. Would you please show me where scripture says Adam is given rest before Eve was created?

Adam is not given rest prior to Eve being created.

Genesis 2:1-22
"Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. 5Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. 11The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. 14The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

18Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” 19Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. 21So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man."​

Verses 4 through 22 of chapter 2 are what happened during verses 24 through 31 of chapter 1.

Genesis 1:24-31
"Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day"​

Both Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day. The rest came on the seventh.

So..... if there is some other rest then I would like you to show me where that rest occurs in scripture.




Would you please show me where the scriptures say Adam was given rest before a woman was formed?

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What yom(day) was Adam given rest as Eve was created?

pinacled said:

What yom(day) was Adam given rest as Eve was created?

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Nope. You don't get to ask questions without answering them, without first providing parity. I asked a very valid question based on something specifically and explicitly posted in the discussion. It has been insinuated I was insincere and now the question remains avoided.

Would you please show me where scripture says Adam is given rest before Eve was created?

Josheb said:

Nope. You don't get to ask questions without answering them, without first providing parity. I asked a very valid question based on something specifically and explicitly posted in the discussion. It has been insinuated I was insincere and now the question remains avoided.

Would you please show me where scripture says Adam is given rest before Eve was created?

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כא וַיַּפֵּל יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים תַּרְדֵּמָה עַל-הָאָדָם, וַיִּישָׁן; וַיִּקַּח, אַחַת מִצַּלְעֹתָיו, וַיִּסְגֹּר בָּשָׂר, תַּחְתֶּנָּה. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof.

pinacled said:

כא וַיַּפֵּל יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים תַּרְדֵּמָה עַל-הָאָדָם, וַיִּישָׁן; וַיִּקַּח, אַחַת מִצַּלְעֹתָיו, וַיִּסְגֹּר בָּשָׂר, תַּחְתֶּנָּה. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof.

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Isaiah 48

pinacled said:

Isaiah 48

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So the answer is, "Regrets, Josh, there is no scripture stating God gave Adam rest prior to creating, Eve." Got it.

Sleep and rest are two different things. Tried to tell you this: not all mentions of rest are identical.


We can just imagine self-styled exegetes using that verse to declare women the poverty that came upon men when God gave Adam a little slumber. lol!



Christians find their rest in Christ 24/7. We do not need to honor one day greater than another or wait one day out of seven to find rest. We don't need to sleep to find it,


There was no long passage of time between Adam being created and Eve's being created. They were both created on the sixth day. There weren't years of child growth and development for Adam prior to Eve. The op is incorrect when it states, "we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created."

Josheb said:

So the answer is, "Regrets, Josh, there is no scripture stating God gave Adam rest prior to creating, Eve." Got it.

Sleep and rest are two different things. Tried to tell you this: not all mentions of rest are identical.

Proverbs 6:10-11
"'A little sleep, a little slumber, A little folding of the hands to rest' — Your poverty will come in like a vagabond And your need like an armed man."​

We can just imagine self-styled exegetes using that verse to declare women the poverty that came upon men when God gave Adam a little slumber. lol!



Christians find their rest in Christ 24/7. We do not need to honor one day greater than another or wait one day out of seven to find rest. We don't need to sleep to find it,

Matthew 11:25-30
"At that time Jesus said, 'I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 27All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”​

There was no long passage of time between Adam being created and Eve's being created. They were both created on the sixth day. There weren't years of child growth and development for Adam prior to Eve. The op is incorrect when it states, "we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created."

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The account o

Josheb said:

So the answer is, "Regrets, Josh, there is no scripture stating God gave Adam rest prior to creating, Eve." Got it.

Sleep and rest are two different things. Tried to tell you this: not all mentions of rest are identical.

Proverbs 6:10-11
"'A little sleep, a little slumber, A little folding of the hands to rest' — Your poverty will come in like a vagabond And your need like an armed man."​

We can just imagine self-styled exegetes using that verse to declare women the poverty that came upon men when God gave Adam a little slumber. lol!



Christians find their rest in Christ 24/7. We do not need to honor one day greater than another or wait one day out of seven to find rest. We don't need to sleep to find it,

Matthew 11:25-30
"At that time Jesus said, 'I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. 27All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”​

There was no long passage of time between Adam being created and Eve's being created. They were both created on the sixth day. There weren't years of child growth and development for Adam prior to Eve. The op is incorrect when it states, "we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created."

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What yom(day) do you suppose Adam slept?

pinacled said:

The account o

What yom(day) do you suppose Adam slept?

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Already answered that question.

Josheb said:

Already answered that question.

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No, you have not answered.
In response to your question I shared scripture where Adam is given rest.

What yom(day) do you suppose that was?

Integrity is important in a conversation.

pinacled said:

No, you have not answered.
In response to your question I shared scripture where Adam is given rest.

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Yep. And I addressed that text.

pinacled said:

What yom(day) do you suppose that was? Integrity is important in a conversation.

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Indeed. Log, not speck, pinacled. You are on record insinuating derision. You are on record not answering questions when asked. You are on record ignoring op-relevant post content. You are on record belaboring a question you could have answered yourself many posts ago. You are on record broaching off-topic content unnecessarily. If you actually wanted to be discussing your yom we'd be doing so. Yes, integrity is important.

You should try it some time.

Unless you have something op-relevant and new to add to this discussion you and I are done.

Josheb said:

Yep. And I addressed that text.

Indeed. Log, not speck, pinacled. You are on record insinuating derision. You are on record not answering questions when asked. You are on record ignoring op-relevant post content. You are on record belaboring a question you could have answered yourself many posts ago. You are on record broaching off-topic content unnecessarily. If you actually wanted to be discussing your yom we'd be doing so. Yes, integrity is important.

You should try it some time.

Unless you have something op-relevant and new to add to this discussion you and I are done.

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I imagine gottservant asked a valid question that encourages growth in the spirit.
A living soul child such as Adam had to of at least grown during a certain amount of time till given rest.

Perhaps Adam was hated as a child by the beast he had named and was given authority over.

You are quite correct that records are kept in writing ..
Gottservant invited a conversation with a set table.
Yet You have yet to answer the question asked.

Blessings Always

pinacled said:

Gottservant invited a conversation with a set table. Yet You have yet to answer the question asked.

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lol! Wow. You really are out of touch. The inquiry of the op was in fact answered and addressed. Twice.

pinacled said:

Blessings Always

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False accusation followed by blessing, huh?



Last chance. You got something new and op-relevant to add or not?

Josheb said:

Yep. And I addressed that text.

Indeed. Log, not speck, pinacled. You are on record insinuating derision. You are on record not answering questions when asked. You are on record ignoring op-relevant post content. You are on record belaboring a question you could have answered yourself many posts ago. You are on record broaching off-topic content unnecessarily. If you actually wanted to be discussing your yom we'd be doing so. Yes, integrity is important.

You should try it some time.

Unless you have something op-relevant and new to add to this discussion you and I are done.

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I've heard that an orphan is given a certain article of spiritual armor during Shabbat.
A place in time where their eyes are shielded from harm.

Keen eyes through a helmet of Salvation where comfort is found.

Blessed be The Holy One

Josheb said:

lol! Wow. You really are out of touch. The inquiry of the op was in fact answered and addressed. Twice.

False accusation followed by blessing, huh?

James 3:8-10
"8But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. 9With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way."​

Titus 3:9-11 ESV
"...avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."​

Last chance. You got something new and op-relevant to add or not?

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Answer my question and you will find a living soul in need of rest.

Can you imagine the rest given a child till they find strength in their bones, and muscles.

Every child grows and feels pain during such time of growth.
Both male and female.

Just as is written on record when the children of Israel blessed and cursed.
Which mountain do you suppose grew to adulthood?

Excellent topic gottservant

Josheb said:

lol! Wow. You really are out of touch. The inquiry of the op was in fact answered and addressed. Twice.

False accusation followed by blessing, huh?

James 3:8-10
"8But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. 9With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way."​

Titus 3:9-11 ESV
"...avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."​

Last chance. You got something new and op-relevant to add or not?

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How a child like Adam responds to suffering reveals the pain of burden others put on them.

Which burden they chose after offered salvation is a choice.

☦Marius☦ said:

He was wise from the beginning hence the teaching in the temple, but this likely means in the Jewish way that he grew IN already established wisdom. As in he grew up in wisdom not that he increased in it.

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Not wanting to quibble over it but the verse is pretty specific that He increased in both wisdom and stature. If I am understanding you correctly, your thoughts are that He was growing up among those who were wise?

As to Adam's wisdom, I still have to wonder at his wisdom and maturity. Though he must have had great intellect being able to name all the animals as well as needing to learn about his world without relying on prior oral or written knowledge, his response to God after eating the fruit was to shift the blame onto his wife. Not exactly a behavior one would expect from a fully matured and wise man.
Perhaps the answer lies in the fear of the Lord being the beginning of wisdom Proverbs 9:10. which he first shows after his disobedience by hiding.

Another thought in relation to Adam's maturity is the why he actually ate from the tree. Was in direct revolt to God's command or was there more to it? A number of years ago I came across a writing that suggested Adam's reasoning was that since Eve had already eaten of the fruit, he would lose her as she would be banished from the garden and eventually die alone and that because of his love for her and perhaps mixed with his fear of being alone again, made a choice to suffer the fate together by also partaking of the fruit.

Put in that sort of context I can really empathize with the anguish he must have suffered making that choice.

True
A child such as living soul Adam endured death.
It is a second Adam that gives both comfort and a blessings

Did the child Adam feel Pain?

LoG said:

Not wanting to quibble over it but the verse is pretty specific that He increased in both wisdom and stature. If I am understanding you correctly, your thoughts are that He was growing up among those who were wise?

As to Adam's wisdom, I still have to wonder at his wisdom and maturity. Though he must have had great intellect being able to name all the animals as well as needing to learn about his world without relying on prior oral or written knowledge, his response to God after eating the fruit was to shift the blame onto his wife. Not exactly a behavior one would expect from a fully matured and wise man.
Perhaps the answer lies in the fear of the Lord being the beginning of wisdom Proverbs 9:10. which he first shows after his disobedience by hiding.

Another thought in relation to Adam's maturity is the why he actually ate from the tree. Was in direct revolt to God's command or was there more to it? A number of years ago I came across a writing that suggested Adam's reasoning was that since Eve had already eaten of the fruit, he would lose her as she would be banished from the garden and eventually die alone and that because of his love for her and perhaps mixed with his fear of being alone again, made a choice to suffer the fate together by also partaking of the fruit.

Put in that sort of context I can really empathize with the anguish he must have suffered making that choice.

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Stature doesn't necessarily mean height, but can imply position or authority. I think in reference to that is merely that as he grew his physical form grew to match the authority he already bore. But like you said. Small things.

LoG said:

Another thought in relation to Adam's maturity is the why he actually ate from the tree. Was in direct revolt to God's command or was there more to it? A number of years ago I came across a writing that suggested Adam's reasoning was that since Eve had already eaten of the fruit, he would lose her as she would be banished from the garden and eventually die alone and that because of his love for her and perhaps mixed with his fear of being alone again, made a choice to suffer the fate together by also partaking of the fruit.

Put in that sort of context I can really empathize with the anguish he must have suffered making that choice.

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I don't know. Even though she sinned first there is a distinction through the scripture between what she did and what he did.
All the scriptures about Eve it says that she was deceived but he wasn't.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. (1 Timothy 2:13–14)

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3)
So he ate with full knowledge of what he was doing and it was his sin not hers that brought in death.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned-
Eve's sin is never connected to death.

I've often thought this is what the Bible means when it says we are the weaker vessel. We are more easily deceived, more trusting.
1 Peter 3:7

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
Men obviously have more physical strength but women are not weak in general. We have a lower mortality rate as children, tend to live longer and we have to give birth, trust me that is not for the weak. I think overall women handle being sick or in pain better than most men.

I think this is why the man is supposed to be the spiritual head of the household. Right from the start he was in charge and she was his helpmate. God charged Adam with naming the animals and as far as we know only gave him the command to not eat.
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Nowhere does it say he commanded the women, so we don't know if God told her directly or if Adam explained it to her.
She knew that she should not eat but I've often wondered when she said
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."
That when she repeated the command incorrectly -was that because God never never told her the command, because Adam had told her the command incorrectly? Or did she come up with that herself?

The other odd thing is why did Adam say or do nothing?
She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
She didn't go and find him, he was right there. He heard what the serpent said and wasn't deceived so why didn't he react, say something, try to stop it? So no I don't think he ate because of his love and concern for her, he should have prevented it from happening.

To me it seems like he knew exactly what he was doing and used her as the handy scapegoat because he readily tossed her under the bus when confronted by God.
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”


12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
Not like he didn't know what tree it was from he didn't eat by mistake.

Her curse wasn't connected to leaving the garden nor does God say anything about the command not to eat to her. Her curse is towards Adam and childbirth.
16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labour you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”


17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food

It's interesting but I don't think he was in anguish over what she did at all.