Dating is a sin- just be friends till your married, no need to complicate...

Dave-W

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"Playing the harlot" is a reference to Israel "whoring after false gods".
True.

But it was also used of singles who were sexually active. Calling unfaithful Israel that made a similar comparison between the 2.
 
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summerville

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True.

But it was also used of singles who were sexually active. Calling unfaithful Israel that made a similar comparison between the 2.

Where does it say that in scripture?

Why Did the Lord Allow Men to Have Concubines?
ukapologetics.net/concubine.html
'Concubinage was practised in many ancient cultures, especially in Mesopotamia.....where a private citizen might have one or two concubines in addition to his primary wife.....a concubine was often a slave or part of the booty of war (Judges 5:30).
 
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Dave-W

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Where does it say that in scripture?
Genesis 38:24 kjv
And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.​

Tamar was twice widowed at that point. She was single and living back with her parents.
 
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summerville

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Genesis 38:24 kjv
And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.​

Tamar was twice widowed at that point. She was single and living back with her parents.

Jewish women had NO rights.. They couldn't inherit or own property so without a son they were without protection and horribly impoverished.

This verse isn't the whole story.. Tamar was NOT in fact playing the harlot. See Genesis 38:25.

Genesis 38:24 24About three months later Judah was told, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant." Judah said, "Bring her out and have her burned to death!"

How Tamar Fulfilled Her Duty to Abraham
https://www.learnreligions.com/how-tamar-beat-the-system-116668
Genesis 38 tells the story of Tamar, her two husbands, Er and Onan, and her father-in-law Judah. According to footnotes in The Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha, the story is intended to show the parts that several people played in fulfilling God's promise to …
 
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Dave-W

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Jewish women had NO rights.. They couldn't inherit or own property so without a son they were without protection and horribly impoverished.
You need to recheck your history. While that may have been true of most of the surrounding cultures, Jewish culture was different. And don't let any revisionist christian commentators tell you differently.
This verse isn't the whole story.. Tamar was NOT in fact playing the harlot.
Yes I understand all of that. Her specifics were not my point.

My point was the phrase was used to describe singles having sexual relations.
 
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mmksparbud

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well lets analyze this, I asked people what are the reasons to date someone. Most say "to get to know someone." Well you can do that in a friendship, probably more accurately than you can in a dating relationship. so say a boy opens a door for a girl, how do you know he isn't just doing it so he can "score later." A friend on the other hand, you know that he has pure motive for opening a door for a woman, there is no possibility of a score or any physical interaction. Instead of "getting to know someone" while dating, what people are really trying to say is that they want a warm body to cuddle with, and instead of "knowing them" they desire to really "know them romantically." That is why people date. The third reason people date is "be claimed." I mean we are lonely, adam was lonely and he wanted eve. He saw all the animals that they were paired off male and female, and he is like ...."where is my female?" So people desire to be with someone. Well again the Bible does not validate "claiming someone" who is not your spouse. God does not see the dating aspect of relationships. There are very little if any verses on dating, however there are many verses on marriage. And I know why, it's because there are not physical benefits, no claim-ability or anything to dating someone. So there is no point. Why date someone you can't kiss? Why say ....this is my boyfriend, this is my fiance, this is my date......when God only sees marriage. According to God you are single still. It is wiser to avoid temptation all together and just stay friends, at least you know where the lines are. But as soon as you kiss, you have to start drawing boundaries, what types of kisses and where can I kiss and get away with it? Is making out, but not having sex sinful? And all these compromises come up. But again I ask you the question. Imagine you are being physical with someone elses spouse. That should scare you. Because you don't know if that is your spouse till you are married. That could be someone elses spouse.

Dating is not a sin. It is how you get to know someone. You can't get to know anyone without spending time together---including God. But you need not be totally alone with someone. There used to be rules about dating and that included chaperones. Not anymore. I know one couple that did not even meet until they were over 40---the first time they kissed was at their wedding. They were attracted to each other at church, they both got down on their knees together and asked God to watch over them and that they were commited to staying pure and if God was OK with their union they would marry first. It was the only wedding I ever attended where the couple had a footwashing ceremony before the wedding. You could lieterally feel the presence of God at that wedding. It's been about 20 years, they are still like newlyweds.
 
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summerville

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You need to recheck your history. While that may have been true of most of the surrounding cultures, Jewish culture was different. And don't let any revisionist christian commentators tell you differently.

Yes I understand all of that. Her specifics were not my point.

My point was the phrase was used to describe singles having sexual relations.

Why do you think the widowed Ruth was gleaning at the edge of the fields?
 
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summerville

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You need to recheck your history. While that may have been true of most of the surrounding cultures, Jewish culture was different. And don't let any revisionist christian commentators tell you differently.

Yes I understand all of that. Her specifics were not my point.

My point was the phrase was used to describe singles having sexual relations.

Judah had another son at home.. He failed in his Leverite obligations. Tamar's obligation didn't go away.
 
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summerville

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Women in Ancient Israel. The Court of the Women in the ...
https://www.bible-history.com/court-of-women/women.html
In ancient Judaism the woman only had rights in the home and even that was very limited. The man had authority over his wife and daughters establishing their activities and their relationships. Women were passed from the control of her father to the control of her husband with little or no say in the matter.
 
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Johan_1988

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well lets analyze this, I asked people what are the reasons to date someone. Most say "to get to know someone." Well you can do that in a friendship, probably more accurately than you can in a dating relationship. so say a boy opens a door for a girl, how do you know he isn't just doing it so he can "score later." A friend on the other hand, you know that he has pure motive for opening a door for a woman, there is no possibility of a score or any physical interaction. Instead of "getting to know someone" while dating, what people are really trying to say is that they want a warm body to cuddle with, and instead of "knowing them" they desire to really "know them romantically." That is why people date. The third reason people date is "be claimed." I mean we are lonely, adam was lonely and he wanted eve. He saw all the animals that they were paired off male and female, and he is like ...."where is my female?" So people desire to be with someone. Well again the Bible does not validate "claiming someone" who is not your spouse. God does not see the dating aspect of relationships. There are very little if any verses on dating, however there are many verses on marriage. And I know why, it's because there are not physical benefits, no claim-ability or anything to dating someone. So there is no point. Why date someone you can't kiss? Why say ....this is my boyfriend, this is my fiance, this is my date......when God only sees marriage. According to God you are single still. It is wiser to avoid temptation all together and just stay friends, at least you know where the lines are. But as soon as you kiss, you have to start drawing boundaries, what types of kisses and where can I kiss and get away with it? Is making out, but not having sex sinful? And all these compromises come up. But again I ask you the question. Imagine you are being physical with someone else spouse. That should scare you. Because you don't know if that is your spouse till you are married. That could be someone elses spouse.

I agree that a man and a woman remain friends until married. Engaged simply means reserved for marriage,not a bad thing. The problem about dating is that the cultural definition, about what happens in a date has changed and not that dating in itself is wrong. A man and woman whom love each other need to get to know each other. Most likely they stay in different areas so they have to make an appointment somewhere to get to know each other. I think that teens need supervision until they become adults.
Movies portraying people having sex on their first date or while dating has indoctrinated generations of young people with the wrong idea of dating. Many of the older generations dated like my parents and grandparents and they never had sex before marriage since it was a taboo back then and now in particularly in secular circles its an acceptable practice ,so that is why it happens. We as Christians should just hold a higher standard and to not emulate the world.
 
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summerville

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I agree that a man and a woman remain friends until married. Engaged simply means reserved for marriage,not a bad thing. The problem about dating is that the cultural definition, about what happens in a date has changed and not that dating in itself is wrong. A man and woman whom love each other need to get to know each other. Most likely they stay in different areas so they have to make an appointment somewhere to get to know each other. I think that teens need supervision until they become adults.
Movies portraying people having sex on their first date or while dating has indoctrinated generations of young people with the wrong idea of dating. Many of the older generations dated like my parents and grandparents and they never had sex before marriage since it was a taboo back then and now in particularly in secular circles its an acceptable practice ,so that is why it happens. We as Christians should just hold a higher standard and to not emulate the world.

They didn't talk about or admit sex before marriage, but often once they were betrothed (formally engaged) couples did have premarital sex.
 
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Dave-W

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Judah had another son at home.. He failed in his Leverite obligations. Tamar's obligation didn't go away.
There were no "levirite obligations" in those days - just Canaanite traditions.
 
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Dave-W

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Why do you think the widowed Ruth was gleaning at the edge of the fields?
Because of what was stated in the text: to feed herself and Naomi.
 
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Dave-W

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Women in Ancient Israel. The Court of the Women in the ...
Wow. Just WOW.

Talk about your christian revisionist history. That is one HORRIBLE example. Taking the Mishnah totally out of context. that was NOT life in first century Judea at all.
 
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summerville

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There were no "levirite obligations" in those days - just Canaanite traditions.

LOLOL.. Well I did misspell Levirate marriage which had nothing todo with the tribe of Levi.


If Levirate marriage didn't apply to Tamar and Judah as the father of sons, why was she married off to Onan and why did God kill him?

LEVIRATE MARRIAGE - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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Dave-W

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If Levirate marriage didn't apply to Tamar and Judah as the father of sons, why was she married off to Onan and why did God kill him?
A fair question. It was a Canaanite tradition. Tamar was Canaanite. But remember the Law is still more than 400 in the future where that is made incumbent on the Israelite people.
 
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lsume

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well lets analyze this, I asked people what are the reasons to date someone. Most say "to get to know someone." Well you can do that in a friendship, probably more accurately than you can in a dating relationship. so say a boy opens a door for a girl, how do you know he isn't just doing it so he can "score later." A friend on the other hand, you know that he has pure motive for opening a door for a woman, there is no possibility of a score or any physical interaction. Instead of "getting to know someone" while dating, what people are really trying to say is that they want a warm body to cuddle with, and instead of "knowing them" they desire to really "know them romantically." That is why people date. The third reason people date is "be claimed." I mean we are lonely, adam was lonely and he wanted eve. He saw all the animals that they were paired off male and female, and he is like ...."where is my female?" So people desire to be with someone. Well again the Bible does not validate "claiming someone" who is not your spouse. God does not see the dating aspect of relationships. There are very little if any verses on dating, however there are many verses on marriage. And I know why, it's because there are not physical benefits, no claim-ability or anything to dating someone. So there is no point. Why date someone you can't kiss? Why say ....this is my boyfriend, this is my fiance, this is my date......when God only sees marriage. According to God you are single still. It is wiser to avoid temptation all together and just stay friends, at least you know where the lines are. But as soon as you kiss, you have to start drawing boundaries, what types of kisses and where can I kiss and get away with it? Is making out, but not having sex sinful? And all these compromises come up. But again I ask you the question. Imagine you are being physical with someone elses spouse. That should scare you. Because you don't know if that is your spouse till you are married. That could be someone elses spouse.
Your post is very interesting to me. I’m completely out of touch with dating. My wife and I will be having our 47th anniversary in June. It’s not been easy for either of us I’m sure. However after 4 children and 7 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren, I see some of God’s infinite wisdom in creation. Your post is prayerfully well received by your peers. The absolute truth of the matter is that there is no place for any form of sexual contact until marriage. This reality is not palatable in today’s world. If you do anything that encourages more sinful activity, that would be unwise. I am thankful that I’m old and don’t have to grow through all of that again. Please hang in there. The Good Lord knows your every thought. Every Christian man that has ever lived has had to fight primal urges that God The Father imbued us with. This has forced the command to be fruitful and multiply. The Word Says it’s better not to marry as I’m sure you are aware. Something that I don’t think many have considered is the story of Christ at the well with the Samaritan woman as I recall. In the 4th chapter of John, Christ encounters a Samaritan woman at a well. One of the major teachings of that story is that Christ recognized the sacrament of marriage. The actual ceremony that made a legal husband and wife. When Christ Told the woman that the man she was living with was not her husband He was clearly demonstrating His support for the binding contract of marriage in both the physical and spiritual sense. The two become one. Christ also uses marriage as a comparison to how we live once born again.
 
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summerville

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A fair question. It was a Canaanite tradition. Tamar was Canaanite. But remember the Law is still more than 400 in the future where that is made incumbent on the Israelite people.

So Onan was killed for NOTHING?

The Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible notes, “Levirate marriage was also known to the Canaanites, Assyrians, and Hittites.”
 
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summerville

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Your post is very interesting to me. I’m completely out of touch with dating. My wife and I will be having our 47th anniversary in June. It’s not been easy for either of us I’m sure. However after 4 children and 7 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren, I see some of God’s infinite wisdom in creation. Your post is prayerfully well received by your peers. The absolute truth of the matter is that there is no place for any form of sexual contact until marriage. This reality is not palatable in today’s world. If you do anything that encourages more sinful activity, that would be unwise. I am thankful that I’m old and don’t have to grow through all of that again. Please hang in there. The Good Lord knows your every thought. Every Christian man that has ever lived has had to fight primal urges that God The Father imbued us with. This has forced the command to be fruitful and multiply. The Word Says it’s better not to marry as I’m sure you are aware. Something that I don’t think many have considered is the story of Christ at the well with the Samaritan woman as I recall. In the 4th chapter of John, Christ encounters a Samaritan woman at a well. One of the major teachings of that story is that Christ recognized the sacrament of marriage. The actual ceremony that made a legal husband and wife. When Christ Told the woman that the man she was living with was not her husband He was clearly demonstrating His support for the binding contract of marriage in both the physical and spiritual sense. The two become one. Christ also uses marriage as a comparison to how we live once born again.

When Paul said it was better to marry than to burn it was in the context of the return of Jesus was expected momentarily.
 
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