On the Brink of the Tribulation.

Semper-Fi said:

World war 2 was far worst tribulation
then anything the world has seen so far.

Jesus says if he does not return when he does,
no flesh would be alive.

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We are talking about the first century here.. It was the worst they had ever seen. That's why Jesus told his followers to flee to the mountains and why they left Jerusalem and went to Pella.

summerville said:

We are talking about the first century here.. It was the worst they had ever seen. That's why Jesus told his followers to flee to the mountains and why they left Jerusalem and went to Pella.

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that is not what it says[first century]

Semper-Fi said:

that is not what it says[first century]

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Sure it does.. unless you prefer to believe Scofield and Hal Lindsey rather than scripture.

The Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21) - Ecclesia
ecclesia.org/Truth/mat05.html
The Great Tribulation is not an event yet future to us. It was "then," during the siege of Jerusalem by the Romans in the first century. This is made abundantly clear in the parallel text in Luke's gospel. Luke 21:20-24 (NKJV) "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by …

Hi the time line Im seeing has the covenant confirmed with the many as the start point of the 70th week of Daniel. This would be the rider on the white horse coming when the seals are opened with a bow and no arrows. This is going to be the same guy as Dan 7, 2 Thes 2 and Rev the beast talk about. He is revealed in middle of the week and commits the abomination of desolation. If you examine these passages and see them like the gospels as different accounts of the same events it paints a pretty clear picture.

Brian Mcnamee said:

Hi the time line Im seeing has the covenant confirmed with the many as the start point of the 70th week of Daniel. This would be the rider on the white horse coming when the seals are opened with a bow and no arrows. This is going to be the same guy as Dan 7, 2 Thes 2 and Rev the beast talk about. He is revealed in middle of the week and commits the abomination of desolation. If you examine these passages and see them like the gospels as different accounts of the same events it paints a pretty clear picture.

Click to expand...

Daniel is writing about Antiochus IV Epiphanes.. At the end of 3 three years, the Jews rededicated the Temple that he had defiled by sacrificing pigs to Zeus. That's why Jewish people celebrate Hannukah.

summerville said:

Sure it does.. unless you prefer to believe Scofield and Hal Lindsey rather than scripture.

The Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21) - Ecclesia
ecclesia.org/Truth/mat05.html
The Great Tribulation is not an event yet future to us. It was "then," during the siege of Jerusalem by the Romans in the first century. This is made abundantly clear in the parallel text in Luke's gospel. Luke 21:20-24 (NKJV) "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by …

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If you knew your bible, there are 2 abomination of desolation mentioned in the bible. The second
one has to do with the falling away in this end time.

Semper-Fi said:

If you knew your bible, there are 2 abomination of desolation mentioned in the bible. The second
one has to do with the falling away in this end time.

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Sorry.. There's no mention of a second tribulation.. Revelation was a letter written to the seven churches about their time and their generation. Do you think Jesus would ignore them to address people thousands of years in the future?

Revelation is about “things which shall be
hereafter,” or occurrences that would
happen after the era of the Apostle John
(Revelation 1:19).

In Revelation 6, John was inspired to
write about the “seven seals” that lead
up to [the return of Jesus Christ].

“And when he had opened the fourth seal,
I heard the voice of the fourth beast say,

Come and see. And I looked, and behold
a pale horse: and his name that sat on him
was Death, and Hell followed with him.

This picture one of the most ominous
scenarios ever. And power was given unto
them over the fourth part of the earth,

to kill with sword [war] ,
and with hunger [famine],
and with death [disease],
and with "the beasts of the earth”

The first four are often called the
“four horsemen of the apocalypse.”

They represent religious deception,
war, famine and disease "pestilences”.

Along with the other three riders,
the anemic-looking horseman that
represents deadly disease will slay
“the fourth part of the earth.”

With today’s population of 7.8 billion
“the fourth part of the earth” todays
figure would come to almost 2 billion.
World Population Clock: 7.8 Billion People (2020) - Worldometer


Revelation 6:8 also connects the pale
green horse to “the beasts of the earth.”

This refers to animals literally attacking
humans for food. On the heels of warfare
and famine, food will be scarce for animals too.

In addition to instances of starving animals
attacking people, this passage can also refer
to animal-borne diseases that passes on to
humans,” as may have played a role in
the Wuhan Coronavirus.

A lot of humans live by wild animals now with
very little buffer. Diseased animals could spread
rabies, for example, to household pets, further
endangering humans.

Jesus Christ Himself said outbreaks of
pestilence would occur prior to His return:

“For nation shall rise against nation, and
kingdom against kingdom: and there shall
be … pestilences … in divers places”
Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:8, Luke 21:11

Semper-Fi said:

Revelation is about “things which shall be
hereafter,” or occurrences that would
happen after the era of the Apostle John
(Revelation 1:19).

In Revelation 6, John was inspired to
write about the “seven seals” that lead
up to [the return of Jesus Christ].

“And when he had opened the fourth seal,
I heard the voice of the fourth beast say,

Come and see. And I looked, and behold
a pale horse: and his name that sat on him
was Death, and Hell followed with him.

This picture one of the most ominous
scenarios ever. And power was given unto
them over the fourth part of the earth,

to kill with sword [war] ,
and with hunger [famine],
and with death [disease],
and with "the beasts of the earth”

The first four are often called the
“four horsemen of the apocalypse.”

They represent religious deception,
war, famine and disease "pestilences”.

Along with the other three riders,
the anemic-looking horseman that
represents deadly disease will slay
“the fourth part of the earth.”

With today’s population of 7.8 billion
“the fourth part of the earth” todays
figure would come to almost 2 billion.
World Population Clock: 7.8 Billion People (2020) - Worldometer


Revelation 6:8 also connects the pale
green horse to “the beasts of the earth.”

This refers to animals literally attacking
humans for food. On the heels of warfare
and famine, food will be scarce for animals too.

In addition to instances of starving animals
attacking people, this passage can also refer
to animal-borne diseases that passes on to
humans,” as may have played a role in
the Wuhan Coronavirus.

A lot of humans live by wild animals now with
very little buffer. Diseased animals could spread
rabies, for example, to household pets, further
endangering humans.

Jesus Christ Himself said outbreaks of
pestilence would occur prior to His return:

“For nation shall rise against nation, and
kingdom against kingdom: and there shall
be … pestilences … in divers places”
Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:8, Luke 21:11

Click to expand...

This would be easier for you if you studied the period of time between Antiochus IV and the end of Hadrian's reign. The savage beasts were the Idumeans, Galileans and Zealots who terrorised the countryside.

Hadrian hunted them down in the caves where they lived.

summerville said:

Daniel is writing about Antiochus IV Epiphanes.. At the end of 3 three years, the Jews rededicated the Temple that he had defiled by sacrificing pigs to Zeus. That's why Jewish people celebrate Hannukah.

Click to expand...

Maybe you should tell Jesus that He was wrong when he warned that the abomination of desolation was a future event. The idea that there is a gap between the 69 and 70th week may have been difficult for many for a long time but remember Daniel was a sealed book until the time of the end. Hosea 3 tells us the return of the kingdom is tied to the return of the sacrifice after many days without one.

4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.

Rev 13 shows the beast has power from Satan for 42 months which is exactly where the middle of the week would be. In 2 Thes 2 the man of sin is revealed when he claims to be God in the temple. This one is giver power by Satan and lying signs that will deceive many. They both persecute Jews and both are destroyed when the LORD comes. Dan 7 shows the pompous one persecuting for a time times and half a time which would be 42 months and he is destroyed when the kingdom is given to the glorious one called the son of man who is seen in heaven before the ancient of days. These all show the same time line and the return of the sacrifice is now moving towards being a reality which is strong evidence that the future view is tracking literally.

Brian Mcnamee said:

Maybe you should tell Jesus that He was wrong when he warned that the abomination of desolation was a future event. The idea that there is a gap between the 69 and 70th week may have been difficult for many for a long time but remember Daniel was a sealed book until the time of the end. Hosea 3 tells us the return of the kingdom is tied to the return of the sacrifice after many days without one.

4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.

Rev 13 shows the beast has power from Satan for 42 months which is exactly where the middle of the week would be. In 2 Thes 2 the man of sin is revealed when he claims to be God in the temple. This one is giver power by Satan and lying signs that will deceive many. They both persecute Jews and both are destroyed when the LORD comes. Dan 7 shows the pompous one persecuting for a time times and half a time which would be 42 months and he is destroyed when the kingdom is given to the glorious one called the son of man who is seen in heaven before the ancient of days. These all show the same time line and the return of the sacrifice is now moving towards being a reality which is strong evidence that the future view is tracking literally.

Click to expand...

Yes, Jesus said it would be a future event and he referenced the Abomination of Desolation under Antiochus IV. He said when you see it AGAIN flee to the mountains and they did.

Its not helpful to change scripture. Hosea is talking about Israel not Jesus.

ICONO'CLAST said:

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

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I know those scriptures quite well. Thanks for the update.

summerville said:

Read Josephus.. the tribulation was indeed horrible.. worse than anything their world had ever seen.

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Read any other encyclopedia and you'll find out different. Could I see that quote from Josephus? I've seen too many times where a Preterist quotes a church father or early historian and completely twist the meaning.

summerville said:

Yes, Jesus said it would be a future event and he referenced the Abomination of Desolation under Antiochus IV. He said when you see it AGAIN flee to the mountains and they did.

Its not helpful to change scripture. Hosea is talking about Israel not Jesus.

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Who and how was the 70 AD abomination fulfilled?

summerville said:

The white horse is mentioned twice.. I always thought it was symbolic of Jesus.

The horseman riding the white horse into battle is, I believe, depicted again in Revelation 19:11-16.

In Revelation 19:16 He is called the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords.” In both cases this rider on the white horse is Jesus Christ, the Divine Son of God who is often called the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament.

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The idea that this rider is Jesus Christ has no fuel for several reasons. Here are a few questions and issues...

1. Christ is the ONE opening the seals, why would he be one of the riders?

2. People who say this rider is Christ and the gospel say the 'bow' represents the gospel. However, Christ is never associated with a bow which is 'usually' associated with evil.

3. In Revelation 19 Christ rides a white horse and wears a diadem. This rider of Rev. 6:2 wears a 'stephanos.'

4. Why would Christ be the first rider, and the other three bad guys with bad things that follow? We've always depicted the four as, 'riding together' considering them to be confederate.

5. The theory that is this white horse rider is Christ actually makes John and Jesus false prophets because this prophecy was written well after Christ first advent.

summerville said:

The white horse is mentioned twice.. I always thought it was symbolic of Jesus.

The horseman riding the white horse into battle is, I believe, depicted again in Revelation 19:11-16.

In Revelation 19:16 He is called the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords.” In both cases this rider on the white horse is Jesus Christ, the Divine Son of God who is often called the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament.

Click to expand...

Nowhere is the rider of the white horse identified in the "four horsemen" the White horse represents purity and is a sign of war. Equating the rider of the white horse in Rev 19 11 to the rider in Rev 6 "four horsemen" is not supported in the bible.

If you equate the white horse rider to Jesus in Rev 6 then who do you equate the other three riders as?

The horsemen represent the churches as they go forth to battle their enemies. The colors of the horses (white, red, black, and pale) indicate a change from purity to apostasy.

The 1st Seal: A White horse: The Pure Church


19:11-16 The Feast of the Birds, Armageddon: Next, John sees a vision of Christ’s Second Coming that deals with the wicked. Christ appears on “a white horse” as the Conquering King. He comes with the “armies” of “Heaven” to “judge and make war.” His eyes seem to pierce to the heart of each person, for He knows every thought and word and action of their lives. His vesture has on it the “blood” of the victory He won at Calvary; that accomplishment ensured His triumph now in the battle of Armageddon.

summerville said:

Daniel is writing about Antiochus IV Epiphanes.. At the end of 3 three years, the Jews rededicated the Temple that he had defiled by sacrificing pigs to Zeus. That's why Jewish people celebrate Hannukah.

Click to expand...

Antiochus Epiphanes cannot be the Antichrist, as he does not fulfill the identifying characteristics of the Antichrist, one of which is that he must come out of the fourth kingdom. Antiochus came out of the third. The idea that Antiochus Epiphanes is the Antichrist is a preterist doctrine that is completely unBiblical.

Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:

1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

The Antichrist power has to fulfill all of the characteristics given in the Bible. It cannot meet only some of them.

Identifying the Antichrist | Prophecy of Daniel | Religious and Political System

Original Happy Camper said:

Nowhere is the rider of the white horse identified in the "four horsemen" the White horse represents purity and is a sign of war. Equating the rider of the white horse in Rev 19 11 to the rider in Rev 6 "four horsemen" is not supported in the bible.

If you equate the white horse rider to Jesus in Rev 6 then who do you equate the other three riders as?

The horsemen represent the churches as they go forth to battle their enemies. The colors of the horses (white, red, black, and pale) indicate a change from purity to apostasy.

The 1st Seal: A White horse: The Pure Church


19:11-16 The Feast of the Birds, Armageddon: Next, John sees a vision of Christ’s Second Coming that deals with the wicked. Christ appears on “a white horse” as the Conquering King. He comes with the “armies” of “Heaven” to “judge and make war.” His eyes seem to pierce to the heart of each person, for He knows every thought and word and action of their lives. His vesture has on it the “blood” of the victory He won at Calvary; that accomplishment ensured His triumph now in the battle of Armageddon.

Click to expand...

The SDA interpretation of the four horsemen being the history of the 1st to 5th church is way off. I've seen Mark Finley's video about it and what a horrible interpretation.

Oberamagau said:

Ira


The SDA interpretation of the four horsemen being the history of the 1st to 5th church is way off. I've seen Mark Finley's video about it and what a horrible interpretation.

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And what is your interpretation of the "four horsemen"?

Original Happy Camper said:

Antiochus Epiphanes cannot be the Antichrist, as he does not fulfill the identifying characteristics of the Antichrist, one of which is that he must come out of the fourth kingdom. Antiochus came out of the third. The idea that Antiochus Epiphanes is the Antichrist is a preterist doctrine that is completely unBiblical.

Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:

1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

The Antichrist power has to fulfill all of the characteristics given in the Bible. It cannot meet only some of them.

Identifying the Antichrist | Prophecy of Daniel | Religious and Political System

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