Which came first: Adam or the Child Adam?

DavidPT · Mar 2, 2020

Gottservant said:
A day is relative to the time needed to turn from one side of Earth back to the beginning.

A day is not the repeat of a stop-watch, to a set time.

However much stop-watch time was needed by day 6, it was enough for Adam to reach Manhood (and at a different time for Eve to reach Womanhood).

As Earth's relative time became more consistent, stop-watch time became more relevant - but even then God promises through Jesus that the times will be shortened for the sake of the Elect.

You lost me, so let me ask this for the time being.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

What method was being used at the time in order to determine the amount of years Adam had lived, if not 24 hour days, where I am assuming is meaning from the time of his first breath until the time of his last breath?

coffee4u · Mar 2, 2020

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

Adam was an adult with adult responsibilities. Children need parents to raise them.
Genesis 2
7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

They were married.

Jesus refers back to the first marriage when he questioned about divorce
Matthew 19
3 The proud religious law-keepers came to Jesus. They tried to trap Him by saying, “Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together.”

He was responsible for sin entering the world, children are not held responsible.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Gottservant · Mar 2, 2020

DavidPT said:
You lost me, so let me ask this for the time being.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

What method was being used at the time in order to determine the amount of years Adam had lived, if not 24 hour days, where I am assuming is meaning from the time of his first breath until the time of his last breath?

I think it (this scripture) was approximately stop-watch time, from the point of conception to death.

I don't think an approximation of time devalues the time of departure, on the grounds that people weren't keeping records, at the time.

How many years did Enoch live? Only 365 or infinitely more (given that he was taken by God)?

mmksparbud · Mar 2, 2020

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

Adam named all the animals---not the work of a child. God made him with a perfectly functioning brain---a total savant. Look up what a savant is capable of doing without even being taught. Adam had no dysfunctionality in his brain. Adam and Eve were both made on the 6th day. There is no confusion. It's not the Holy Spirit telling you otherwise. God's word is truth, either you believe it or you don't. It's not a game. It's not a buffet from which you pick and choose. God is not the author of confusion.
God didn't want to wait for Adam to grow up and go to college before He could have a decent conversation with him.

Gottservant · Mar 2, 2020

coffee4u said:
[...]
. Children need parents to raise them.

The Bible says they walked with God.

They were married.

They were married, by faith.

He was responsible for sin entering the world, children are not held responsible.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

He could only be held accountable, if he knew that what he had done was in part more childish than necessary.

When you give an account to a child, of what Adam did, you don't say "he made a terrible mistake trusting God" (that is, as though he were only testing God),, you say "Adam refused to do what he was told" (that is, in keeping with the fact that he had a relationship with God).

Just for a moment, think about what it means when Jesus says "you must become as a little child to enter Heaven" - do you all say "but we are men?"

In time the Holy Spirit will convict you of this, anyway. If you are certain of your relationship to Jesus in a childish way, not being as other children were will not lead you into great condemnation.

Gottservant · Mar 2, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Adam named all the animals---not the work of a child. God made him with a perfectly functioning brain---a total savant. Look up what a savant is capable of doing without even being taught. Adam had no dysfunctionality in his brain. Adam and Eve were both made on the 6th day. There is no confusion. It's not the Holy Spirit telling you otherwise. God's word is truth, either you believe it or you don't. It's not a game. It's not a buffet from which you pick and choose. God is not the author of confusion.
God didn't want to wait for Adam to grow up and go to college before He could have a decent conversation with him.

I like the way you say "decent" conversation.

It's just a pity that you have one rule for Adam and a different rule for everyone else.

If the Holy Spirit is not telling us otherwise, what is He saying? What is?

wonderkins · Mar 2, 2020

The Bible doesn't say one way or another. This is all conjecture. We can't answer that question. Why present it as if it's fact?

Why are you wasting your time on this? Why does it matter?

Jamdoc · Mar 3, 2020

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.

Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?

Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.

This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

It's one of those things that people make an assumption on, but it's not spelled out, same thing with how long Adam actually spent in Eden, which I believe is how the world could be older than 6000 years. Once I stopped making assumptions, I realized how little we actually know, and how much greater the knowledge gap between God and man truly is. It would make SENSE for Adam to have been created an adult, but that's not necessarily what happened, Eve was more explicitly created as an adult from an adult Adam though, after he'd already named all the beasts (so there's a lot of species on earth that Adam had to name... that'd take time). But in Eden Adam couldn't die, the beasts were no threat to him, so it's not like he'd be in any danger as a child. So.. possible? Only God knows.

Jamdoc · Mar 3, 2020

DavidPT said:
You lost me, so let me ask this for the time being.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

What method was being used at the time in order to determine the amount of years Adam had lived, if not 24 hour days, where I am assuming is meaning from the time of his first breath until the time of his last breath?

key word assuming. I think it's possible that Adam didn't even start counting age until after being expelled from Eden.

mmksparbud · Mar 3, 2020

Gottservant said:
I like the way you say "decent" conversation.

It's just a pity that you have one rule for Adam and a different rule for everyone else.

If the Holy Spirit is not telling us otherwise, what is He saying? What is?

Adam and Eve were the beginning of mankind---of course they were different from us. They carried in them the DNA for every known group of man---they had no need of a belly button either, unless God gave them one just for kicks for you only have one because of the placenta that attaches to the mother.
All the first pre-flood people had fully functional brains---after the flood things changes, their height, their life spans were shortened. They were not quite as intelligent but more than us.
I have no idea what voices you are listening to, but the Holy Spirit does not contradict the word of God.

☦Marius☦ · Mar 3, 2020

Gottservant said:
Adam would not have had a name for all the other species of animals, if he had no experience as a child.

Only by dying to the child within, does the man grasp the meaning of Heaven.

Child first, Man second; Heaven first, Earth second.

Adam was able to name all the animals because he was in full communion with God and was created as the wisest man until Christ. The names that he gave each species which we do not even know, came directly from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

GaveMeJoy · Mar 3, 2020

Gottservant said:
Adam would not have had a name for all the other species of animals, if he had no experience as a child.

This is not an argument it’s a statement that may or may not be true.

ewq1938 · Mar 3, 2020

☦Marius☦ said:
the wisest man until Christ.

Wow...I think he was the most foolish man until Judas.

GaveMeJoy · Mar 3, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Adam and Eve were the beginning of mankind---of course they were different from us. They carried in them the DNA for every known group of man---they had no need of a belly button either, unless God gave them one just for kicks for you only have one because of the placenta that attaches to the mother.
All the first pre-flood people had fully functional brains---after the flood things changes, their height, their life spans were shortened. They were not quite as intelligent but more than us.
I have no idea what voices you are listening to, but the Holy Spirit does not contradict the word of God.

I agree with you Adam was a man when he was created.

However, I don’t believe pre or post flood people were smarter. If anything they had much more basic understanding of the world around them than modern man, as hunter/gatherers and agrarian society members. They would likely be like uneducated farmers imo.

The argument that Adam was born a child does not actually contradict scripture. Genesis does not address this directly.

GaveMeJoy · Mar 3, 2020

☦Marius☦ said:
Adam was able to name all the animals because he was in full communion with God and was created as the wisest man until Christ. The names that he gave each species which we do not even know, came directly from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

You think Adam was more wise than Solomon? I think he seemed a little slow to me. Like hey adam, those animal skins ain’t fooling anyone bro and why did you let that snake around your wife? Playing fantasy football????

p

SkyWriting · Mar 3, 2020

Gottservant said:
Hi there,So yes, this is just meant by way of filling in the gaps: Adam was not necessarily an adult, when God made him.Which came first, Adam, the adult or Adam the child?Intuitively, we assert the Child Adam came first, right? That way there is time for Creation to be experienced, before a little while down the track Eve is created.This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

What came first was man, the animal. Or "Natural Man". Adam was the first Natural-Man to have a Spirit.

Jamdoc · Mar 3, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Adam and Eve were the beginning of mankind---of course they were different from us. They carried in them the DNA for every known group of man---they had no need of a belly button either, unless God gave them one just for kicks for you only have one because of the placenta that attaches to the mother.
All the first pre-flood people had fully functional brains---after the flood things changes, their height, their life spans were shortened. They were not quite as intelligent but more than us.
I have no idea what voices you are listening to, but the Holy Spirit does not contradict the word of God.

More intelligent than us? I have my doubts, because technology and knowledge of the world has increased, not decreased over time.

mmksparbud · Mar 3, 2020

Jamdoc said:
More intelligent than us? I have my doubts, because technology and knowledge of the world has increased, not decreased over time.

Intelligence and common sense do not go hand in hand. Some of the smartest people I know have made the absolute dumbest decisions ever! Again---He was made perfect---that means he had a perfectly functioning brain. Why is it so hard to believe that the pre-flood people were people of high intelligence? God doesn't make junk. They had hundreds of years in which to perfect their natural God given talents.
There are people today who are considered geniuses in their area of expertise with only a very short lifespan. There are those in their 80's still able to do their work, that still means they've only had about 70 years or so to get to that level----for the pre-flood people, that was just getting started. They had hundreds of years more to perfect their abilities. The one thing we do not know is how long, from the time Adam and Eve were created to the time of the fall. Adam lived for over 900 years---after the fall, how long before the fall? These people learned from each other and kept their knowledge. Savants today can memorize who phone books! And they have parts of the brain that are retarded. Adam and Eve and their children had perfectly functional brains----BTW---in the original Hebrew, God did not say everything was good, He said it was functional.

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]
The Torah: Genesis 1

prodromos · Mar 3, 2020

Gottservant said:
This is not meant to confuse you, if you want to go back to believing God created Adam the Man, you can - it just won't be without that little nudging from the Holy Spirit, that maybe it (the Child Adam) was true?

The Holy Spirit does not nudge us towards untruth. That is the work of the evil one.

Jamdoc · Mar 3, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Intelligence and common sense do not go hand in hand. Some of the smartest people I know have made the absolute dumbest decisions ever! Again---He was made perfect---that means he had a perfectly functioning brain. Why is it so hard to believe that the pre-flood people were people of high intelligence? God doesn't make junk. They had hundreds of years in which to perfect their natural God given talents.
There are people today who are considered geniuses in their area of expertise with only a very short lifespan. There are those in their 80's still able to do their work, that still means they've only had about 70 years or so to get to that level----for the pre-flood people, that was just getting started. They had hundreds of years more to perfect their abilities. The one thing we do not know is how long, from the time Adam and Eve were created to the time of the fall. Adam lived for over 900 years---after the fall, how long before the fall? These people learned from each other and kept their knowledge. Savants today can memorize who phone books! And they have parts of the brain that are retarded. Adam and Eve and their children had perfectly functional brains----BTW---in the original Hebrew, God did not say everything was good, He said it was functional.

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]
The Torah: Genesis 1

And they still had extremely limited technology, and bare bones understanding of the world. Much of the language of the bible shows this. Look at some of the prophetic books for example. Ezekiel seems to describe flying saucers, Revelation seems to describe a nuclear war. They do it in terms that they can understand.. a wheel of fire in the sky that made a sound like rushing water when it moved and could hover in place, and fire from heaven annihilating entire armies or even entire nations.
How else would a first century AD man describe a nuclear war other than fire from heaven?

I'd think with as much intelligence as you give them credit for and as long of lives as they had, that they'd be capable of developing more than a plow.

Which came first: Adam or the Child Adam?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

Well-Known Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

God loves your words, may men love them also

Active Member

Watching and Praying Always

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

Murican

Well-Known Member

I love you three.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Watching and Praying Always

Similar threads