THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?


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nolidad

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I'm sure that Parousia70 would extend you an invitation as well to participate in his post #927 challenge.

So go for it!!!

Well as most people here know that Antichrist is simply the one title of the many the Bible gives the son of Satan who rules the world at the time Jesus returns, it is simply just easier than listing all the names the bible gives HIm.
 
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parousia70

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Well as most people here know that Antichrist is simply the one title of the many the Bible gives the son of Satan who rules the world at the time Jesus returns, it is simply just easier than listing all the names the bible gives HIm.

However, The Bible Gives so such title of "antichrist" to no such person.

If it did, it could be easily demonstrated straight from the pages of scripture... but as you can see, no one can do so.

Such is PURELY a later invention of men.
 
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keras

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However, The Bible Gives so such title of "antichrist" to no such person.

If it did, it could be easily demonstrated straight from the pages of scripture... but as you can see, no one can do so.

Such is PURELY a later invention of men.
This assertion is purely rubbish.
Revelation 13:1-8 tells about a 'beast', who is a man, who gains the authority of Satan. He is the epitome of an anti-Christ, a person who blasphemes God, who persecutes the Saints and who demands worship of himself.
He will be the big player during the end times, as Daniel 11:21-45 describes. Paul also in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.
 
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ebedmelech

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1 John 2:18: "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that an-ti-christ shall come..."

How much more plain can that be?
That's plain to those John wrote it to. I guess you skipped John's clarification...2:22:
22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

Been alot of those since John wrote it.
 
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nolidad

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However, The Bible Gives so such title of "antichrist" to no such person.

If it did, it could be easily demonstrated straight from the pages of scripture... but as you can see, no one can do so.

Such is PURELY a later invention of men.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

That was easy.
 
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Contenders Edge

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That's plain to those John wrote it to. I guess you skipped John's clarification...2:22:
22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

Been alot of those since John wrote it.


Still applies to the Man of Sin, The Beast, and the Abomination of Desolation; all of which are manifested in one person. It must also be noted that some versions such as the KJV render that passage as "This is antichrist" rather than "This is the antichrist", but regardless, John does not deny that a specific person in whom all these titles are applied will be manifest, because if he did, he would be contradicting Daniel, Paul, and even Christ.
 
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ebedmelech

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Still applies to the Man of Sin, The Beast, and the Abomination of Desolation; all of which are manifested in one person. It must also be noted that some versions such as the KJV render that passage as "This is antichrist" rather than "This is the antichrist", but regardless, John does not deny that a specific person in whom all these titles are applied will be manifest, because if he did, he would be contradicting Daniel, Paul, and even Christ.
Fact remains the passage states "whoever" denies Christ has come in the flesh is antichrist. As for the "man of sin"...no doubt in my mind that was Emperor Nero. However there's no use to go around on this matter...even today there are many antichrist.
 
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Contenders Edge

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Fact remains the passage states "whoever" denies Christ has come in the flesh is antichrist. As for the "man of sin"...no doubt in my mind that was Emperor Nero. However there's no use to go around on this matter...even today there are many antichrist.


That there have been many antichrists is not what is being debated and Emperor Nero was not that man of sin who was foretold because he did not do all that the foretold man of sin will do, nor did Christ return in his day as He will in the days of the man of sin.
 
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ebedmelech

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That there have been many antichrists is not what is being debated and Emperor Nero was not that man of sin who was foretold because he did not do all that the foretold man of sin will do, nor did Christ return in his day as He will in the days of the man of sin.
It may not be what is debated but it's what scripture says. Jesus said there would be false Christs (note the pluralization)...and when He said it He was speaking to Peter, James, James, John, and Andrew.

Paul wrote to "the Church at Thessalonica" not to the church of 2020 et al. He told THEM "the man of sin was coming...not the church today. Obviously you haven't read or don't know all that Nero did against the church.

What we today gain from what is written in scripture is how we are to equally confront such evil, and we have had many evil antichrists througout history.
 
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Davy

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I agree that God has given His faithful the New Covenant through His Son Jesus Christ, and that is the continuation of His Promises to Israel.

Yet I also believe Apostle Paul in Romans 11 where he said God has 'blinded' the majority of unbelieving Jews, and that blindness will not be removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then all Israel shall be saved. And only then... will those blinded be able to make their free will choice to believe on Jesus, or remain 'cut off' from Christ's Salvation.

God is not going to destroy any soul that is not first fully accountable for their choice.

When He blinds someone away from His Truth, then how can they be held accountable? This is why in Ezekiel 44 we are shown about the Levites who went astray when Israel went astray, will be abased, and given menial duties in the future Millennial temple, and not allowed to approach The LORD. It shows they are going to be saved, but like Jesus said, those who knew his lord's will but didn't prepare, will be beaten with many stripes. But one who knew not, but did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with with few stripes (Luke 12:47).
 
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keras

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Davy, the Jews are not so blinded that they cannot read the Bible, or see how they violate the Commandments.
God has helped them in their wars. but they never acknowledge Him for it. Their Judaism religion is just a rote formality.

Many, many prophesies tell of their demise in the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
The final redemption of the Jewish people is stated in Ezekiel 37, but verses like Romans 9:27, make it clear that there will only be a remnant. That remnant will be those who have accepted Jesus now.
 
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Davy

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Davy, the Jews are not so blinded that they cannot read the Bible, or see how they violate the Commandments.
God has helped them in their wars. but they never acknowledge Him for it. Their Judaism religion is just a rote formality.

Many, many prophesies tell of their demise in the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
The final redemption of the Jewish people is stated in Ezekiel 37, but verses like Romans 9:27, make it clear that there will only be a remnant. That remnant will be those who have accepted Jesus now.

I prefer to stay with what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about them.
 
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keras

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I prefer to stay with what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about them.
What Paul did say about Jewish Israelites, is that only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

What Paul said in Romans 11:26 applies to the whole of Israel, all the 12 tribes. It is clear too, from all of scripture, that those whom God will save, are only the born again faithful ones. The Christian Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16.

Thinking that the mixed race people who call themselves Jews and their country Israel, have any special favor with God, is a serious contradiction of the Bible message.
 
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Davy

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What Paul did say about Jewish Israelites, is that only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Might want to keep reading.

Rom 11:25-27
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

KJV
 
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jgr

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Might want to keep reading.

Yes, you might.

There would have been no reason for Paul to be in great sorrow and unceasing pain (Romans 9:1-3) if he believed that all physical Israel would be saved.

But he knew otherwise.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient "all Israel", comprised of the believing remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27, 11:1-5), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved
 
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Contenders Edge

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Paul wrote to "the Church at Thessalonica" not to the church of 2020 et al. He told THEM "the man of sin was coming...not the church today. Obviously you haven't read or don't know all that Nero did against the church.


First of all, I don't recall reading in scripture that specifically stated that anything that Paul said was just for the first century or came with an expiration date. And secondly, Nero did not do all the things that the foretold Man of Sin will do and there have been those who have come after him who have persecuted Christians more severely than him.
 
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Davy

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Yes, you might.

I did read what Apostle Paul wrote there in Romans 11, and I did not deny it, unlike others.

There would have been no reason for Paul to be in great sorrow and unceasing pain (Romans 9:1-3) if he believed that all physical Israel would be saved.

But he knew otherwise.

Paul would not have given 'us' that warning against being conceited against his unbelieving brethren if he had thought they there was no hope for them.

In Acts 24, Paul also had hope there would be a resurrection for the unjust also. What does that tell you? Do you really think Paul had that hope in Acts 24:15 just to watch the unjust be thrown into the lake of fire?

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient "all Israel", comprised of the believing remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27, 11:1-5), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved

You can deny these below written Bible Scriptures that Apostle Paul wrote all you want, and even keep bypassing discussion of them like you're doing, but they are not going to just get up and go away...

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.


29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

KJV

Just as the Gentiles were once excluded and lost, without mercy, they have received God's mercy by their (Jews) unbelief which God caused upon them by blinding them per Romans 11:7-8. And through OUR mercy, those in unbelief (Jews) might be given mercy when they believe on Jesus in the future, once the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Therefore, you do not understand the saving grace and mercy of our Heavenly Father for His chosen.
 
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keras

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Therefore, you do not understand the saving grace and mercy of our Heavenly Father for His chosen.
Yes we do; because it is not ethnic Jews who are God's chosen people today. They lost that status in the first century. Matthew 21:43
All the faithful Christians are the chosen ones now; John 15:14-19, 1 Peter 2:9-10

We know why you insist on having a general Jewish redemption, that idea is part of the 'rapture to heaven'; of the Church. Neither is prophesied anywhere in the Bible.
 
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jgr

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Paul would not have given 'us' that warning against being conceited against his unbelieving brethren if he had thought they there was no hope for them.

In Acts 24, Paul also had hope there would be a resurrection for the unjust also. What does that tell you? Do you really think Paul had that hope in Acts 24:15 just to watch the unjust be thrown into the lake of fire?

Jesus disagrees.

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Or don't you think that anyone goes to hell?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

In post #955, two Israels are identified and described by Paul.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Paul is reiterating the two Israels of Romans 9:6-8; enemies of the gospel ("of Israel"), and the beloved election ("all Israel").

Scripture is unequivocal in identifying who the elect(ion) are. They are those of faith and obedience in and to Christ, who are saved by grace. (Romans 11:1-5)

Under no conditions or circumstances are enemies of the gospel ever numbered among the elect.

Only the elect are beloved.

Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts were not, and are not, bestowed upon those of Paul's countrymen according to the flesh who are enemies of the gospel.
They are bestowed exclusively upon God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His gifts are irrevocable (i.e. without repentance).


To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


God's calling was not, and is not, directed to those of Paul's unbelieving countrymen according to the flesh, who are enemies of the gospel.
It is directed exclusively to God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable (i.e. without repentance).

Under no conditions or circumstances are unbelievers, enemies of the gospel, ever the recipients of God's gifts and calling.

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

Indeed, God has mercy upon all, both Jew and Gentile.

Sadly, multitudes, both Jew and Gentile, do not respond to His mercy, and are lost.

Therefore, you do not understand the saving grace and mercy of our Heavenly Father for His chosen.

His Chosen are Scripturally unmistakable.

They are those who are faithful and obedient to His Son, irrespective of their physical DNA.

They are those who possess His spiritual DNA, exclusively.

Two genes -- faith and obedience.

And no others.
 
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Davy

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Yes we do; because it is not ethnic Jews who are God's chosen people today. They lost that status in the first century.

That's just it, Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11 that God has not forgotten them. So as much as some people hate the Jews, blaming them for murdering our Lord Jesus on the cross, Apostle Paul still had hope that at least some of his Jewish brethren would come to Christ and be saved.

So you're not going against me when you think I'm deceiving myself about them; you are denying what Apostle Paul himself said, which is because he actually heeded what God gave the OT prophets to write about the house of Judah...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

There's a multitude of Scriptures in the OT prophets about their future conversion when God takes away their sins. But not theirs only, but also the sins of the northern ten tribes of Israel too.

Jer 3:18
18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
KJV

Jer 33:24-26
24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, "The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?" thus they have despised My people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
25 Thus saith the LORD; If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
KJV

Jer 50:19-20
19 And I will bring Israel again to his habitation, and he shall feed on Carmel and Bashan, and his soul shall be satisfied upon mount Ephraim and Gilead.
20 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
KJV


Brethren in Christ should take heed with what Apostle Paul said there in Romans 11 for us in Christ to not be 'conceited' against the unbelieving Jews, because he showed God has not cast even those off just yet, his even quoting from the OT prophets about that!

Thus Paul further says...

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV


Does that sound like the unbelieving Jews are already doomed to perish? No. Paul is even saying they are STILL the 'elect' of God. Might not seem like it right now, but what was Apostle Paul doing BEFORE Jesus converted him on the road to Damascus? Paul was right in there with the blind scribes and Pharisees persecuting Christ's Church!

Who more than Apostle Paul would be qualified to say this about the unbelieving Jews, that they are still the elect of God?

(Staff Edit - 3/14/20)
 
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