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Speaking in tongues
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Fair enough. I will delete my post to you. I know that many have genuine questions about how tongues is practiced today in many meetings, and I agree that upon observation, people will genuinely question the validity.
I think that the misuse of the gift comes from people copying others without knowing God's will for them in it, also because of ignorance of what Paul actually teaches in 1 Corinthians 14, and that younger believers are pressured into it because it is 'the thing to do in our church." Consequently, many don't know exactly what praying in tongues is for, and use it as some sort of incantation (similar to witchcraft) to get God to do what they want Him to do, or to bring the Holy Spirit into a meeting when He is already there indwelling the spirit of every person in the room. Also, to try and hype up some sensory emotion or feeling to assure them of the presence of God, when the Scripture says that when two or three are gathered together, Jesus is in the midst of them whether they feel anything or not.
So, it is important to carefully study 1 Corinthians 14 to know what Paul teaches about the gift, how and when to speak it. Then they need to spend time in prayer with God to find out His will for them in relation to the gift. Then they need to take Scriptural steps to ask for and receive the gift, then, on the basis of those steps, speak in faith, firstly in private to God (rather than in public to please others) until the language becomes fluent and the Holy Spirit witnesses to their spirit that they are genuinely praying in tongues to God.
Unless the person receives the Gift of tongues (to be spoken out in a meeting and have it interpreted as a ministry tool), he or she should never speak it out in public, but keep it private between them and God. That is what Paul teaches.
Paul is correct when a whole lot of people are talking away in tongues in a meeting and someone who is an unbeliever or is uninitiated in the knowledge of the gift walks into the meeting and thinks that they are all loopy, wacky, and run a mile, and never have any desire to seek for the gift for themselves ever! Sadly that often happens.
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This forum is for those who believe in speaking in tongues - a language that they not learned.
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- Dec 29, 2002
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We should always read above and below. Well 1st one needs to understand this "diversities of tongues"
So are we saying "do all speak in tongues" .. this covers all "diversities of tongues"?
Did not Paul say "I speak in tongues more then you ALL".. all? Did ALL of them speak in tongues? :
We do find Christ saying about all that believe "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues". Hmm they? I take "them" as anyone everyone that will believe.
I can speak in tongues.. I do not have the gift of tongues. Seen heard those praying in tongues where someone says "did you know what you were saying?" No.. " you were praising God in my language." A language they never learned. And people get saved. HAHA praise GOD.. me? I just BELIEVE! I asked He gave.. I received.
So are we saying "do all speak in tongues" .. this covers all "diversities of tongues"?
Did not Paul say "I speak in tongues more then you ALL".. all? Did ALL of them speak in tongues? :
We do find Christ saying about all that believe "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues". Hmm they? I take "them" as anyone everyone that will believe.
I can speak in tongues.. I do not have the gift of tongues. Seen heard those praying in tongues where someone says "did you know what you were saying?" No.. " you were praising God in my language." A language they never learned. And people get saved. HAHA praise GOD.. me? I just BELIEVE! I asked He gave.. I received.
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- Mar 28, 2005
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I believe that every converted believer can pray in tongues, because they have the Holy Spirit dwelling in their spirit. They have the potential to manifest any of the gifts of the Spirit as the Spirit wills. The gifts don't belong to us, they belong to the Holy Spirit and He has given them to the body of Christ. Because we all have different roles in the body of Christ, the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts according to the role He has set for us. This idea of some that they can have all the gifts operating through them is just nonsense. No one member of the body of Christ is a one-man-band, in the same way that one person cannot be all of the five fold ministries at once. It is just self-ambition to be superior to the common flock.
When I have fellowshiped with those who accept the prophetic in their meetings, I have been used in prophecy and the gift of tongues, as well as interpretation. These gifts were bestowed on me according to the accept role and ministry that I had in that group. But I never manifested any of the other gifts because they were not consistent with my God-appointed role at that time.
But when I joined a church that did not have the gifts operating, I no longer was functioning in that role, so my gifting changed to administration and helps consistent with my new role. I had a more pastoral and treasurer role as an elder of that church.
I was asked on two occasions to conduct a whole-day conference on divine healing where we examined how Jesus went about healing people with a view to following His example. One or two people actually got healed but it was as the result of sitting the person on the 'hot' seat, and having as many as 30 people coming forward, laying hands on the person and saying, "Jesus heals you." So, although I gave teaching, I did not manifest any gift of healing. This was because it was not my role to be the healing ministry in those conferences, but as a ministry of helps and teaching to encourage every person there that they could lay hands on a sick person and trust the Lord to heal them.
I can remember only once in all my time (50 years) that I had a definite word of knowledge. It was remarkable and amazing because the word I had for the person was totally consistent with counselling that she had received earlier in the day by another person at the camp where I was a leader. The word hit the nail right on the head, and the person receiving it knew without doubt that it was from the Lord and not just from me.
I also believe that the gifts of the Spirit that involve ministry to others are not given to novices. One has to have gained a level of maturity and experience and to be recognised in the body of Christ as someone competent in ministry to others. One does not have to go to Bible College or get a degree in Divinity to be able to work in the gifts, but someone who is still spiritually wet behind the ears having just received Christ trying to manifest the gifts would just get puffed up in pride and be inclined to boast how many of the gifts they have. In fact, they would be dreaming if they thought they would be manifesting any of the gifts, but rather spouting stuff out of the own heads. It takes time for a person to be a person of prayer and of the Word in order to be fully prepared to manifest the gifts of the Spirit in ministry to others.
It is the reason why I always encourage those seeking the Baptism with the Spirit to pray in tongues, because this is available to young and old; because it is not for ministry to others, but personal prayer to God. In fact, praying in tongues is the perfect preparation for growing in the things of the Spirit, gaining sensitivity to know the difference between the prompting of the Spirit and the prompting of one's own desire.
This is why we so so much misuse of the gifts in our Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. We have people doing it who don't know what they are doing; or they are doing it out of pride and envy; or they cannot yet distinguish between the flesh and the Spirit in the manifestation. That's why we have silly people babbling away publicly in tongues, prophesying all sorts of nonsense, bringing both of the valuable gifts into disrepute, taking the Lord's Name in vain by purporting to be doing these things in the Name of the Lord, when the Holy Spirit is not inspiring them at all.
Pride, envy and jealousy can be very subtle. Someone can speak loudly in tongues in a meeting, or give thrilling sounding dramatic prophecies out of pride, giving the impression that he is more spiritual than the common "herd". A person hearing a good prophecy, can stand up and add his 2 cents worth because he is jealous of the other person and he wants to occupy the role of effective prophet as well. Another person can desire to prophecy or use other gifts in the church because he is envious of others who operate in the Spirit effectively and he can't see why he can't do the same. These three actions of the flesh are the main causes of the misuse of the gifts, tongues used contrary to Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14, and false prophecy.
So, if we are going to be used in the gifts of the Spirit we must carefully examine ourselves to ensure that we are wanting to be used for the right reason, to glorify Christ and to build up the body of Christ. We must also determine whether the gift we desire is consistent with our role in the body of Christ and whether the ministry we desire is validated and supported by the leadership of the church.
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GTW27
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If it is The Lords will to have a one man band, then He will have a one man band, It is not for you to state what The Lords will is and what it is not. Do not be surprised if a man of God crosses your path shortly, who causes many of your words to fall to the ground.
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Flaming and prophesying are against the forum rules. Appropriate action has been taken.
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I Cor 12:30. All speak in tongues?
There will be those who are against healing, tongues and interpretation but the gift of tongues is available to all believers.
If you look at the groups that received tongues in Scripture, it states "all" received (Acts 2:4; 4:31; 10:44; 19:2) with one exception - on the Day of Pentecost, not in the Upper Room, where there were mockers of tongues.
There will be those who are against healing, tongues and interpretation but the gift of tongues is available to all believers.
If you look at the groups that received tongues in Scripture, it states "all" received (Acts 2:4; 4:31; 10:44; 19:2) with one exception - on the Day of Pentecost, not in the Upper Room, where there were mockers of tongues.
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Saint JOHN
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IN THE CHURCH !!!!!!! only 3 Max .. this is the context of this original comment.. 3 tongues ..corresponding interpretation .. then 2 at the most 3 prophecy .. ALL done decent and in ORDER !!
this is how the church ( people not a building ! ) is run !! ( still today )
1corv18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
Jesus already told us to go into private room to pray, this in the Church is just to demonstrate you are who you say ( real Christians.. you cant get these signs following {mark 16 v16+) without doing it Gods way !!)
(they all can, sign of receiving the Holy Spirit, pure undefiled speech to God)
Joh 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
John 17v17.....thy word is truth
so according to the word...
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is
unfruitful.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
many want to be Christians but are still in repentance mode ! go all the way, Gods way...
37 ¶ Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
repent..baby's cant !
baptize..greek= immerse, dip etc symbol of burrial
thats your bit .. ( get it right and..) God responds..giving you the Holy Spirit ( which gives the signs following)
this is how the church ( people not a building ! ) is run !! ( still today )
1corv18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
Jesus already told us to go into private room to pray, this in the Church is just to demonstrate you are who you say ( real Christians.. you cant get these signs following {mark 16 v16+) without doing it Gods way !!)
(they all can, sign of receiving the Holy Spirit, pure undefiled speech to God)
Joh 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
John 17v17.....thy word is truth
so according to the word...
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is
unfruitful.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
many want to be Christians but are still in repentance mode ! go all the way, Gods way...
37 ¶ Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
repent..baby's cant !
baptize..greek= immerse, dip etc symbol of burrial
thats your bit .. ( get it right and..) God responds..giving you the Holy Spirit ( which gives the signs following)
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I think Paul was just giving a basic guide to how tongues and prophecy should be conducted decently and in order. Logical thinking will show that probably more than 3 tongues and interpretations would be sufficient to get the message across. More than that would be overkill in my opinion.
Paul did say that all may prophesy, except that they do it one by one.
I am a supporter of having spoken prophecies recorded. This assists accountability and enables the judgment of the prophecies to be made accurately and not have to rely on memory. Also, it enables those who were impacted by them able to play them back later to appreciate exactly what was said. Also, where prophecies refer to the future, playing them back six or twelve months later can confirm that the prophecies were true and what was said is coming to pass.
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topher694
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I'm well aware of what Paul was saying, and of all the things to take away from 1 Cor 14, limiting to 2 or 3 is an odd one, and the application of that scripture he put forth is wrong.
I agree wholeheartedly about recording the words. That is part of the order we setup in our church. All words must be recorded or written down. And, if you come to me asking for guidance regarding a word you better have it recorded or written or I won't do it.
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Good one! It would solve a lot of problems if more prophecies were recorded or written down. The crap detector would work better that way!
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Dave G.
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Just a question here, not attacking anyones belief. I believe there is a gift of tongues today, I've heard of it in action. But they spoke real earthly languages they never spoke before in their lives. To me that's tongues as the apostles spoke. Is that something accepted here or do I have to believe in the tongues that only spirits understand and others who gain that spirit language ? Because quite simply, I don't believe that. You guys can but just curious ?
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topher694
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Too often people come and ask for clarification or confirmation of a word by saying, "I got a word that said _________" but they leave out other key portions of the word they don't want you to know.Good one! It would solve a lot of problems if more prophecies were recorded or written down. The crap detector would work better that way!
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1 Corinthians 14:2 gives a good indication of what tongues is.
"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit."
So:
1. The person who speaks in tongues speaks to God and no one else, including any other spirit.
2. No one other than God is able to understand him. Paul says this in relation to the Corinthians who were speaking in tongues all over the place without interpretation. They can't say things to edify the others because the others can't understand a word they are saying.
3. They utter mysteries in the Spirit. No one can know the mind of the Spirit except the Spirit Himself, and when a person is speaking in tongues he is surrendering himself to the Spirit so that the Spirit can say what He wants to the Father.
So those are the three main points with speaking or praying in tongues in the standard way.
But, we have seen through church history and current events, that people have spoken in tongues, and the language has been understood by a native speaker of that tongue. Examples:
1. A person, who has never learned the Welsh language spoke in pure Welsh without an accent in a service, and a native Welsh speaker heard praises to God in her language.
2. A man sitting behind a young Cantonese woman in a gospel service started praying in tongues, and she heard him say in Cantonese: "You need to go forward and receive Christ as your Saviour." So she did just that. The man praying in tongues didn't even know what Cantonese was let alone learning the language. And he spoke it without a trace of an accent.
3. A friend who spent time in Pentecostal churches in Kenya told of hearing bush men who had never had contact with Europeans coming into the services, getting saved, and then filled with the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues. Some of them spoke the praises of God in pure, unaccented Oxford English - an impossibility for an African man who had even learned the language to be able to speak it without a characteristic African accent.
4. A friend in my own church prayed in tongues in a prayer meeting, and a Ghanaian brother who was visiting got excited and told my friend that he was praising God in his own village dialect. My friend had never been out of New Zealand, and had absolutely no knowledge of African village dialects.
5. Years before I did a course in basic New Zealand Maori language, I was praying in tongues during a service, and a bilingual Maori lady sitting beside me told me that God spoke encouraging things through me in the Maori language.
So the miracle of speaking a known language for a particular purpose is one of the ways that God can assure a person that He is real and alive.
John says of his gospel, and I think it applies to the miracle of tongues being an understandable language is: "I have written these things to you in order that you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that you can have life through faith in His name".
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