Presbyterian Continuist

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Look to your earlier posts. And you have not agreed with me. You made false statements about me thus breaking the Ninth Commandment.
What is it about me agreeing that you believe your own comments that makes you think I am making false statements about you?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Right here you did:

"I agree that you believe that Christians who write articles concerning their faith are dishonest and have zero credibility."

That is not an agreement to start with. Second you used the word "believe" when I very clearly used the word "know". The proper action on your part would be to try to learn how I know. Since you cannot support your claims it makes it look as if all you have is mere belief, and then to make matters worse it looks as if you assume that others know as little as you do.

Instead of running away why not show that you can be honest. Would you like to learn about the concept of evidence?
Okay. I agree that you are of the opinion that you know rather than just believe the position you are taking. But what makes you think that I want to know what you know?

I would have thought that after quite a number of posts where I have agreed that you believe what you know, and have asked for clarity on those comments I don't understand, you would be getting the message that I just don't care about what you think you know.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Okay. I agree that you are of the opinion that you know rather than just believe the position you are taking. But what makes you think that I want to know what you know?

I would have thought that after quite a number of posts where I have agreed that you believe what you know, and have asked for clarity on those comments I don't understand, you would be getting the message that I just don't care about what you think you know.
Now see, this is terribly dishonest on your part.

You may not want to know. But if that is the case the best solution is to hide your head in the sand and not post on forums. Posting on forums indicates that one wants to know if one is wrong. That is if one is honest.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Now see, this is terribly dishonest on your part.

You may not want to know. But if that is the case the best solution is to hide your head in the sand and not post on forums. Posting on forums indicates that one wants to know if one is wrong. That is if one is honest.
I would be dishonest if I said that I agreed with your "knowledge" when I actually don't. But I can honestly acknowledge that you believe it because that is the truth.
 
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I would be dishonest if I said that I agreed with your "knowledge" when I actually don't. But I can honestly acknowledge that you believe it because that is the truth.
That is only because you practice willful ignorance. And that is dishonest as well. And downplaying what I know is still violating the Ninth Commandment. As a Christian you have a duty to try to l learn why you are wrong.
 
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.. depends on what you mean by 'the truth'.
Pontius Pilate asked the same question!

The Bible is God's record of Himself to mankind. God is not a human that He should lie. Everything He said, either directly or through His servants recorded in the Bible is the absolute truth.

The first person who made God out to be a liar was the talking snake in the garden of Eden. After God telling Eve that she would die if she ate of the fruit of the prohibited tree, Satan, through the snake told her, "No, you won't die. You will become like God, knowing what is good and what is evil."

In actual fact, the talking snake became the first humanist, and his first disciples were Adam and Eve as soon as they could discern good from evil for themselves, becoming, in effect, their own gods.

Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and Creflo Dollar, the TV evangelists are true humanists even though they profess Christianity. They teach that "we are gods" and "we can speak things into being the same as God". Their religion is all to do with the power of self and that God can work only with human permission."
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Pontius Pilate asked the same question!

The Bible is God's record of Himself to mankind. God is not a human that He should lie. Everything He said, either directly or through His servants recorded in the Bible is the absolute truth.

The first person who made God out to be a liar was the talking snake in the garden of Eden. After God telling Eve that she would die if she ate of the fruit of the prohibited tree, Satan, through the snake told her, "No, you won't die. You will become like God, knowing what is good and what is evil."

In actual fact, the talking snake became the first humanist, and his first disciples were Adam and Eve as soon as they could discern good from evil for themselves, becoming, in effect, their own gods.

Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and Creflo Dollar, the TV evangelists are true humanists even though they profess Christianity. They teach that "we are gods" and "we can speak things into being the same as God". Their religion is all to do with the power of self and that God can work only with human permission."

There's a whole forum dedicated to this sort of thing. It's in the apologetics forum. Because this certainly isn't science.
 
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SelfSim

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Pontius Pilate asked the same question!

The Bible is God's record of Himself to mankind. God is not a human that He should lie. Everything He said, either directly or through His servants recorded in the Bible is the absolute truth.

The first person who made God out to be a liar was the talking snake in the garden of Eden. After God telling Eve that she would die if she ate of the fruit of the prohibited tree, Satan, through the snake told her, "No, you won't die. You will become like God, knowing what is good and what is evil."

In actual fact, the talking snake became the first humanist, and his first disciples were Adam and Eve as soon as they could discern good from evil for themselves, becoming, in effect, their own gods.

Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and Creflo Dollar, the TV evangelists are true humanists even though they profess Christianity. They teach that "we are gods" and "we can speak things into being the same as God". Their religion is all to do with the power of self and that God can work only with human permission."
Rather .. my point was that there are several different ways people arrive at meanings of truth, eg: believingly, axiomatically or via objectively testing.

Your above post is solely focused on the belief method only.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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There's a whole forum dedicated to this sort of thing. It's in the apologetics forum. Because this certainly isn't science.
Well, the creation of the universe was an absolute miracle performed by an infinitely powerful God, so it is right out of the realm of the laws of science. If we don't believe that as shown in the first two chapters of Genesis, we might as well reject the rest of the Bible, because it cannot be relied upon to give us the truth.
 
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Rather .. my point was that there are several different ways people arrive at meanings of truth, eg: believingly, axiomatically or via objectively testing.

Your above post is solely focused on the belief method only.
Well, if our infinite, all-powerful God said that He created the universe in six 24 hour days, then I certainly believe it, because He was the only eye-witness to the events. I wasn't there, nor were you, so we can't really confirm through empirical evidence that it really happened that way. So we have to believe what God says about it, or say that He is a liar. I don't think I want to take the chance of calling God a liar.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Well, the creation of the universe was an absolute miracle performed by an infinitely powerful God, so it is right out of the realm of the laws of science. If we don't believe that as shown in the first two chapters of Genesis, we might as well reject the rest of the Bible, because it cannot be relied upon to give us the truth.

But you're not talking science. You're talking apologetics. Your actually actively preaching, which is not allowed in the science forums on this site.
Physical and Life Sciences statement of purpose.
General Apologetics: This is not a forum where Christians are asked to defend their faith against objections and criticism from non-believers. Non-Christian members who would like to challenge Christian theology, beliefs and practices, should start a thread in the Christian Apologetics forum.
 
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If we don't believe that as shown in the first two chapters of Genesis, we might as well reject the rest of the Bible, because it cannot be relied upon to give us the truth.

Why does believing the rest of the Bible hinge on a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2?

As stated earlier, it sounds like you are hinging your entire faith on scientific knowledge being wrong. That just seems very odd to me.
 
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Why does believing the rest of the Bible hinge on a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2?

As stated earlier, it sounds like you are hinging your entire faith on scientific knowledge being wrong. That just seems very odd to me.
I understand that with your world-view you would find a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2 would be hard to accept.

We know that Moses wrote Genesis. If he believed that God created the universe over millions of years through evolution, he would have used the word "evolved" in his description of the creation. Also, he would have made it quite clear that the 'days' described would be longer than the 24 hours between the 'morning' and 'evening' in his description. But Moses has led us to believe that God actually created the universe in six 24 hour days. So, either he misinterpreted what was revealed to him, or that he made it up (in other words, lied about it).

But that would open up a can of worms, because what Moses wrote was the foundation of the Jewish faith, and if he lied at the beginning of Genesis, then the whole narrative of Genesis, including Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would also be fiction.

Therefore, when God announced Himself as "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" then He would be either mistaken or lying as well!

Then we would have to cast doubt on all the rest of the Jewish historical books, which form the basis of Jewish history from the time of the Exodus, Joshua, through the Judges, 1&2 Kings, and 1&2 Chronicles, saying that they are not accurate history but works of fiction. But then that would cause problems, because there is abundant evidence that the people and places described in the history actually existed.

Then we have the problem explaining Bible prophecy - how that the bulk of the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel actually came to pass according to the actual subsequent secular history and archaeological evidence. A prominent mathematician calculated the odds of all those prophecies actually coming to pass by chance, and his results were 1:5,000,000.

So, we have to conclude that all of the Bible is literally true, or none of it is. Our only alternative to it would be that it is a set of religious fairy tales designed to help us know how to live self-improved moral lives and until we die and go into oblivion.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I understand that with your world-view you would find a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2 would be hard to accept.

We know that Moses wrote Genesis. If he believed that God created the universe over millions of years through evolution, he would have used the word "evolved" in his description of the creation. Also, he would have made it quite clear that the 'days' described would be longer than the 24 hours between the 'morning' and 'evening' in his description. But Moses has led us to believe that God actually created the universe in six 24 hour days. So, either he misinterpreted what was revealed to him, or that he made it up (in other words, lied about it).

But that would open up a can of worms, because what Moses wrote was the foundation of the Jewish faith, and if he lied at the beginning of Genesis, then the whole narrative of Genesis, including Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would also be fiction.

Therefore, when God announced Himself as "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" then He would be either mistaken or lying as well!

Then we would have to cast doubt on all the rest of the Jewish historical books, which form the basis of Jewish history from the time of the Exodus, Joshua, through the Judges, 1&2 Kings, and 1&2 Chronicles, saying that they are not accurate history but works of fiction. But then that would cause problems, because there is abundant evidence that the people and places described in the history actually existed.

Then we have the problem explaining Bible prophecy - how that the bulk of the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel actually came to pass according to the actual subsequent secular history and archaeological evidence. A prominent mathematician calculated the odds of all those prophecies actually coming to pass by chance, and his results were 1:5,000,000.

So, we have to conclude that all of the Bible is literally true, or none of it is. Our only alternative to it would be that it is a set of religious fairy tales designed to help us know how to live self-improved moral lives and until we die and go into oblivion.

What does any of this have to do with genes?
Or jeans even? I like the nice blue ones. The classic Levi look. Although a good pair of dark blue ones are also nice.
 
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I understand that with your world-view you would find a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2 would be hard to accept.

We know that Moses wrote Genesis. If he believed that God created the universe over millions of years through evolution, he would have used the word "evolved" in his description of the creation. Also, he would have made it quite clear that the 'days' described would be longer than the 24 hours between the 'morning' and 'evening' in his description. But Moses has led us to believe that God actually created the universe in six 24 hour days. So, either he misinterpreted what was revealed to him, or that he made it up (in other words, lied about it).

But that would open up a can of worms, because what Moses wrote was the foundation of the Jewish faith, and if he lied at the beginning of Genesis, then the whole narrative of Genesis, including Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would also be fiction.

Therefore, when God announced Himself as "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" then He would be either mistaken or lying as well!

Then we would have to cast doubt on all the rest of the Jewish historical books, which form the basis of Jewish history from the time of the Exodus, Joshua, through the Judges, 1&2 Kings, and 1&2 Chronicles, saying that they are not accurate history but works of fiction. But then that would cause problems, because there is abundant evidence that the people and places described in the history actually existed.

Then we have the problem explaining Bible prophecy - how that the bulk of the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel actually came to pass according to the actual subsequent secular history and archaeological evidence. A prominent mathematician calculated the odds of all those prophecies actually coming to pass by chance, and his results were 1:5,000,000.

So, we have to conclude that all of the Bible is literally true, or none of it is. Our only alternative to it would be that it is a set of religious fairy tales designed to help us know how to live self-improved moral lives and until we die and go into oblivion.
Yes, it's a serious problem when you only recognize two forms of literature: 100% accurate literal history or "lies." It's even more of a problem if you believe that a heterogeneous collection of ancient texts written over a period of many centuries has to be all one or all the other.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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What does any of this have to do with genes?
Or jeans even? I like the nice blue ones. The classic Levi look. Although a good pair of dark blue ones are also nice.
I lost 40kg so I could wear a pair of jeans again. :)

I started in this thread by saying that the complicated and intricate genetic information inserted into each cell was not put there by chance. It is a total instruction manual and programming instructions for how each cell should develop into the different parts of the human, animal or plant organism. It is written in a type of digital code that if decoded, the whole world's digital storage systems would not be enough to contain it.

The genetic program is too logical for it to happen just by chance. Saying it happened by chance would be like taking the largest aircraft full of reams of paper and containers of ink up to 30,000 feet, and tipping it all out the back door of the plane, and having it land on the earth as the Encylopedia Brittanica! Even worse, you could put all that paper and ink into a large rocket send it into space and have it return to earth in 5 billion years containing the whole ten volumes of the Oxford English Dictionary!

The point I am making all this while is that God designed the genetic code, and wrote the program into every cell, and He did it instantaneously. This is inseparately linked to the first two chapters of Genesis.
 
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