Poll - "world" meaning in Matthew 24:3

meaning of "world" in Matthew 24:3 ?

  • End of an age, era. And destruction of the planet at the same time.

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Davy

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I see the Preterists are still playing with their crazy confusion about the idea of the end this present world age. Ooops! I used BOTH the word 'world' and 'age' in the SAME prhase, didn't I???? More confusion for the deceived Preterists I guess...
 
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Oberamagau

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I see the Preterists are still playing with their crazy confusion about the idea of the end this present world age. Ooops! I used BOTH the word 'world' and 'age' in the SAME prhase, didn't I???? More confusion for the deceived Preterists I guess...
Preterism has gain converts over the years because all of their answers are found almost 2,000 years ago. They dig hard and deep to fabricate a 70AD fulfillment in everything.

Confusion and uncertainty will exist in our understanding of end-times prophecy. There will be varied opinions, but once the tribulation DOES hit, we hope that our understanding is enlightened.

I think that the futurist have been so deeply misled by the 'experts' for so many years that when the prophecies do begin to pass, they will have to come clean about what's taking place and what's coming. IOW - Many will have to admit they've been wrong about what's coming down.

The world will go into tribulation and there won't be a pre-trib rapture - won't be a global dictator, and there won't be a one world government or religion, a peace treaty - or a rebuilt temple, etc.
 
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Davy

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Preterism has gain converts over the years because all of their answers are found almost 2,000 years ago. They dig hard and deep to fabricate a 70AD fulfillment in everything.

Confusion and uncertainty will exist in our understanding of end-times prophecy. There will be varied opinions, but once the tribulation DOES hit, we hope that our understanding is enlightened.

Most Preterists won't understand when the coming tribulation hits, because they haven't listened to our Lord Jesus in His Word, so they won't recognize it. They will think the coming pseudo-Christ will be our Lord Jesus having returned. Their leaders will tell them so. It's because the tribulation is not going to be a bad time for the deceived and wicked. It's going to be a time of world peace, with a one-world kingdom, a one-world religion, one-world finance excuse all your debt system, one-world military, chicken in every pot.

I think that the futurist have been so deeply misled by the 'experts' for so many years that when the prophecies do begin to pass, they will have to come clean about what's taking place and what's coming. IOW - Many will have to admit they've been wrong about what's coming down.

The Futurists being misled by the pre-trib rapture theory, I think Satan has a special plan to gather those because of how well he has deceived them. That's kind of what our Lord Jesus shows at the end of Luke 17 and Matthew 24:28 about the carcase gathered to where the fowls are. The Futurist's hype about all out chaos for the end is what also helps deceive the Preterists, because they too don't understand what the tribulation will actually be like and thus are not prepared for the "strong delusion" using world peace.

The world will go into tribulation and there won't be a pre-trib rapture - won't be a global dictator, and there won't be a one world government or religion, a peace treaty - or a rebuilt temple, etc.

There actually will... be a world dictator. It will be the pseudo-Christ himself as king of the whole world, a mimic of our Lord Jesus Christ. That fake is to work great signs and wonders that IF possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect. The Rev.13:1 first beast is his future kingdom here on earth, a mimic of Christ's future Kingdom He will establish here on earth when He returns on the "day of the Lord". And there will... be a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the orthodox unbelieving Jews (they have the materials ready for that.) The pseudo-Christ is going to oblige them, because the OT prophecy is that Messiah will build the temple (Zechariah 6:12-13).
 
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DavidPT

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The world will go into tribulation and there won't be a pre-trib rapture - won't be a global dictator, and there won't be a one world government or religion, a peace treaty - or a rebuilt temple, etc.


What I have underlined I myself fully agree with you. The other parts I can see happening though I'm not claiming they have to happen, but that I can see them maybe happening. BTW, even though I don't see a rebuilt temple in the future, I still think the 70th week is future to us rather than already fulfilled. I see it involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for one, and that I don't take the temple mentioned in that verse to be a rebuilt one either.
 
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Oberamagau

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Most Preterists won't understand when the coming tribulation hits,
Let me put it this way. We see how the corona virus affects peoples lives, travel, trade, and the stock market. When tribulation comes it will likely be a time where there's multiple bad virus' circulating the globe - war in the Middle-East and beyond - top that off with a huge earthquake and multiple jihadist attacks across the world....THAT is the tribulation!

You say tribulation will NOT be a bad time for the deceived and wicked. It seems to me that they're the ones that take the brunt of the last days judgments!
It's because the tribulation is not going to be a bad time for the deceived and wicked. It's going to be a time of world peace, with a one-world kingdom, a one-world religion, one-world finance excuse all your debt system, one-world military, chicken in every pot.
What I want to know is - what verse - where do you come up with the idea that the tribulation is a time of world peace?
There actually will... be a world dictator. It will be the pseudo-Christ himself as king of the whole world, a mimic of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The world dictator is something dreamed up. There is no way ONE man has the power to unite and govern every nation on earth, and it's also dreamed up that someone would somehow unite the world's religions! These beast - the 7 headed and ten horned ones - the two horned beast - the 10 horned ONE headed one.....are NOT global!
 
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Oberamagau

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What I have underlined I myself fully agree with you. The other parts I can see happening though I'm not claiming they have to happen, but that I can see them maybe happening. BTW, even though I don't see a rebuilt temple in the future, I still think the 70th week is future to us rather than already fulfilled. I see it involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for one, and that I don't take the temple mentioned in that verse to be a rebuilt one either.
I've never accepted the dispensational view of the 70th week.

Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap!
 
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Douggg

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You say tribulation will NOT be a bad time for the deceived and wicked. It seems to me that they're the ones that take the brunt of the last days judgments!
Allow me to make a comment, to help with some clarification.

When some futurists, those of the pre-trib view say "the tribulation" - that is a mis-nomer. What they are really meaning is pre-70th week. But for most of the first half, it will not be "tribulation", as they have coined the whole 70th week.

But in their terminology, it is what they are calling "the tribulation" (for the whole seven years) - which for the most part the first half of the seven years, even the wicked will not be in experiencing the trumpet judgment, the bowls of wrath - that will take place in the second half, the "great tribulation", the actual correct term, to be begin when the abomination of desolation will be setup, placed, in the temple.

In very generic terms, first half of the 7 years, peaceful (I think that is what Davy is saying). The second half of the 7 years though is the great tribulation.

Oberamagau, you are right the wicked will bear the brunt of the great tribulation.

If them using the term "the tribulation", to support the term pre-trib (rapture), it would stop a lot of confusion. They should be saying pre-70th week, because that is what they actually mean.
 
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Oberamagau

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Allow me to make a comment, to help with some clarification.

When some futurists, those of the pre-trib view say "the tribulation" - that is a mis-nomer. What they are really meaning is pre-70th week. But for most of the first half, it will not be "tribulation", as they have coined the whole 70th week.

But in their terminology, it is what they are calling "the tribulation" (for the whole seven years) - which for the most part the first half of the seven years, even the wicked will not be in experiencing the trumpet judgment, the bowls of wrath - that will take place in the second half, the "great tribulation", the actual correct term, to be begin when the abomination of desolation will be setup, placed, in the temple.

In very generic terms, first half of the 7 years, peaceful (I think that is what Davy is saying). The second half of the 7 years though is the great tribulation.

Oberamagau, you are right the wicked will bear the brunt of the great tribulation.

If them using the term "the tribulation", to support the term pre-trib (rapture), it would stop a lot of confusion. They should be saying pre-70th week, because that is what they actually mean.
I'm not convinced the entire tribulation is 7 years. It could be more - it could be less. I know the man of sin rules for 3 1/2 but NOT convinced the trib last for 7.

Mathew 24:6-8 could be the first part of the trib...
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

The seal could be the same.

I think it's a mistake to believe "we already have it figured out." I believe that when the world goes bad and the tribulation does come, Christians won't know what to think because things aren't coming down the way they expect....especially with pre-trib.

Just think of a world with...

Pestilence - war - Islamic terrorism - famine - earthquakes - Christian persecution...and -

Everyone is still here - there's no global dictator - no one world religion and government - no rebuilt Temple - no mark of the beast - etc. BUT -

Instead of world governments and religions uniting, the Arab Middle-East IS uniting - the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam are uniting (trying but at the end fail) - (the beast burns the harlot with fire)

The Arabs and Iranians invaded Israel - they've claimed the Temple Mount as the headquarters of their worldwide Islamic Caliphate - the beast demands that Muslim's face Jerusalem and the 'beast' instead of Mecca 7 times a day instead of 5 when they worship.

There's a southern Caliphate forming - the Saudi alliance AKA the Revelation 13 beast and king of the south of Daniel 11.

There's a Northern Caliphate forming - Revelation 17 - the King of the North of Daniel 11.

As you can see, I don't believe much of anything the
'prophecy experts' have been teaching people.
 
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Douggg

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The Arabs and Iranians invaded Israel - they've claimed the Temple Mount as the headquarters of their worldwide Islamic Caliphate - the beast demands that Muslim's face Jerusalem and the 'beast' instead of Mecca 7 times a day instead of 5 when they worship.
Iran, previously called Persia, is one of the nations making up Gog/Magog, and those armies get destroyed before every reaching Jerusalem. So that scenario cannot play out as you are suggesting.

Gog/Magog - followed by the 7 years - ending with Jesus's return. That's the frame work found in Ezekiel 39.
 
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Oberamagau

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Iran, previously called Persia, is one of the nations making up Gog/Magog, and those armies get destroyed before every reaching Jerusalem. So that scenario cannot play out as you are suggesting.

Gog/Magog - followed by the 7 years - ending with Jesus's return. That's the frame work found in Ezekiel 39.
Do you think Jerusalem gets invaded in the last days?

You place the Gog war at the beginning of tribulation. I say it happens at the end of tribulation and is what triggers the Lord's return. Israel will likely be invaded by some of the nations of Psalm 83 and THAT may trigger the beginning of tribulation.

"They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:"

We just see things differently.
 
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Douggg

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Do you think Jerusalem gets invaded in the last days?
Yes, because of what it says in Zechariah 14. This invasion will take place as part of the Armageddon event, near the end of the 7 years.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

And during the second half of the seven years, Jerusalem will be occupied by the EU armies of the beast.

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

But the Gog/Magog nations, the army of Gog, preceding the 7 years will never make it into Jerusalem. They do make it into Israel, but not into Jerusalem.


You place the Gog war at the beginning of tribulation. I say it happens at the end of tribulation and is what triggers the Lord's return. Israel will likely be invaded by some of the nations of Psalm 83 and THAT may trigger the beginning of tribulation.

Gog/Magog army of Gog destroyed; then feasted upon in Ezekiel 39:4, before the bodies are gathered over the course of 7 months, and placed in a mass grave, Ezekiel 39:11-16.

In Ezekiel 39:9-10, the seven years of burning the war implements follow the feast on Gog's army are the seven years of Daniel 9, which begin when the Antichrist makes the big speech as required by Moses back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 to all future leaders of Israel on a 7 year cycle.

See my post to nolidad, #210 in the the 7 kings thread. As I explain Deuteronomy 31:9-13 as being the basis for the confirming of the (Mt. Sinai) covenant in Daniel 9:27. The "for 7 years" will then make some sense, because it is a cycle, that whoever is leader of Israel is supposed to do.

At the end of the 7 years, is the Armageddon feast on dead bodies, in Ezekiel 39:17-20 corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

Jesus Himself, speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to earth. This is a 100% zero chance of being wrong interpretation.

Ezekiel 39:28 corresponds to Matthew 24:31, the gathering of the elect (the house of Israel) back to Israel. None will be left in the nations, where they were dispersed in 70 ad, the result for having transgressed against him - i.e. refusing to receive him as their King, crucifying Jesus on the cross. Please read Ezekiel 39:21-29, again, and I think you will see what I mean.

My explaining comments in blue bracketed.

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they [the Jews] know that I [Jesus] am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I [Jesus] have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there [in the nations, called the heathen in Ezekiel 39].



Ezekiel 39:21 And I [Jesus] will set my glory among the heathen [the nations][His return to earth to rule over them], and all the heathen [the nations] shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them [the armies in verses 39:17-20 gathered at Armageddon to make war on Him - Jesus].




Psalms 110:
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.


6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads [the kings who decide to make war on Jesus in Revelation 16:14-16] over many countries.


____________________________________________________

All together, that's how you can know, with zero chance of being wrong, that Gog/Magog just precedes the beginning of the 7 years.

And please note that in none of my posts I made any disparaging remarks to you or nolidad regarding your understanding of the prophecies - even though there has been some disagreement. I just try to have a friendly discussion.

I do not say like some that them who disagree with me that their view is rubbish, non-scriptural, etc. etc. because that does not yield positive results. Everyone has some rationale to whatever their view is.


 
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Oberamagau

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Yes, because of what it says in Zechariah 14. This invasion will take place as part of the Armageddon event, near the end of the 7 years.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

And during the second half of the seven years, Jerusalem will be occupied by the EU armies of the beast.

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

But the Gog/Magog nations, the army of Gog, preceding the 7 years will never make it into Jerusalem. They do make it into Israel, but not into Jerusalem.




Gog/Magog army of Gog destroyed; then feasted upon in Ezekiel 39:4, before the bodies are gathered over the course of 7 months, and placed in a mass grave, Ezekiel 39:11-16.

In Ezekiel 39:9-10, the seven years of burning the war implements follow the feast on Gog's army are the seven years of Daniel 9, which begin when the Antichrist makes the big speech as required by Moses back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 to all future leaders of Israel on a 7 year cycle.

See my post to nolidad, #210 in the the 7 kings thread. As I explain Deuteronomy 31:9-13 as being the basis for the confirming of the (Mt. Sinai) covenant in Daniel 9:27. The "for 7 years" will then make some sense, because it is a cycle, that whoever is leader of Israel is supposed to do.

At the end of the 7 years, is the Armageddon feast on dead bodies, in Ezekiel 39:17-20 corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

Jesus Himself, speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to earth. This is a 100% zero chance of being wrong interpretation.

Ezekiel 39:28 corresponds to Matthew 24:31, the gathering of the elect (the house of Israel) back to Israel. None will be left in the nations, where they were dispersed in 70 ad, the result for having transgressed against him - i.e. refusing to receive him as their King, crucifying Jesus on the cross. Please read Ezekiel 39:21-29, again, and I think you will see what I mean.

My explaining comments in blue bracketed.

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they [the Jews] know that I [Jesus] am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I [Jesus] have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there [in the nations, called the heathen in Ezekiel 39].



Ezekiel 39:21 And I [Jesus] will set my glory among the heathen [the nations][His return to earth to rule over them], and all the heathen [the nations] shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them [the armies in verses 39:17-20 gathered at Armageddon to make war on Him - Jesus].




Psalms 110:
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.


6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads [the kings who decide to make war on Jesus in Revelation 16:14-16] over many countries.


____________________________________________________

All together, that's how you can know, with zero chance of being wrong, that Gog/Magog just precedes the beginning of the 7 years.

And please note that in none of my posts I made any disparaging remarks to you or nolidad regarding your understanding of the prophecies - even though there has been some disagreement. I just try to have a friendly discussion.

I do not say like some that them who disagree with me that their view is rubbish, non-scriptural, etc. etc. because that does not yield positive results. Everyone has some rationale to whatever their view is.

I'm confused - I see a few contradictions, and you go all over the place. I think I'll pass on this one.
 
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Douggg

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I'm confused - I see a few contradictions, and you go all over the place. I think I'll pass on this one.
I am saying that the Gog/Magog event takes place, and that army invades Israel, gets within the borders, but does not make it all the way into Jerusalem, before God destroys Gog's army. End of the muslim alliance/Islam.

Then afterward the Gog/Magog event is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, involving the Antichrist.

At the end of those 7 years, is the Armageddon event, which those armies are able to take Jerusalem as hostage, in hopes of Jesus not destroying them. Those actions are in Zechariah 14.

In Revelation 19, Jesus returns down to earth, destroys the Armageddon armies, and rescues them in Jerusalem. The destruction of the Armageddon armies are in Ezekiel 39:17-20. And the remainder of Ezekiel 39:21-29, is Jesus Himself speaking in the text, recounting why the Jews went into diaspora, but had turned to him when things got rough for them in the 7 years. And accordingly recognize him as the Lord their God - which they presently don't do.
 
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Davy

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Let me put it this way. We see how the corona virus affects peoples lives, travel, trade, and the stock market. When tribulation comes it will likely be a time where there's multiple bad virus' circulating the globe - war in the Middle-East and beyond - top that off with a huge earthquake and multiple jihadist attacks across the world....THAT is the tribulation!

I know it may be difficult to grasp what our Lord Jesus meant about 'the end' in Matthew 24:6, but the time of "great tribulation" is what time He was pointing to. He contrasted wars and rumours of wars happening meaning 'the end' is not yet. So what's the opposite of a time of wars and rumours of wars? Peace.

And world peace is what the Daniel 8 Scripture is pointing to with the coming false one. It even says craft will prosper by his hand.

Peace and safety is also what Apostle Paul pointed to in 1 Thess.5 when the "sudden destruction" comes upon them; that destruction is about God's consuming fire that will end this present world. Just prior to that, they will be saying that, "Peace and safety".

This is also shown in the Revelation 11 Scripture after God's two witnesses are killed with their dead bodies left laying in the street in Jerusalem. The world will send each other gifts it says, i.e., big party.

You say tribulation will NOT be a bad time for the deceived and wicked. It seems to me that they're the ones that take the brunt of the last days judgments!

There will be the plagues God will do through His two witnesses. But the time for the deceived world will be with the Antichrist causing peace and safety, like the Daniel 8 prophecy shows, and like Apostle Paul showed for the end in 1 Thess.5.

So it of course will not be a perfect peace like how it will be when our Lord Jesus returns.

What I want to know is - what verse - where do you come up with the idea that the tribulation is a time of world peace?

1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

KJV

Paul was pulling from the OT prophets like Isaiah about that day of "sudden destruction"...

Isa 29:5
5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
KJV


The idea is of course, that the deceived will instead be saying, "Peace and safety" just prior to that destruction. This is why Paul said in the next 1 Thess.5:4 verse that we are not in darkness, that that day should overtake us 'as a thief', meaning we are supposed to be watching the events leading up to that day, opposite of what the deceived are thinking.

Dan 8:23-25
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

KJV

The world dictator is something dreamed up. There is no way ONE man has the power to unite and govern every nation on earth, and it's also dreamed up that someone would somehow unite the world's religions! These beast - the 7 headed and ten horned ones - the two horned beast - the 10 horned ONE headed one.....are NOT global!

You're right there is no FLESH man that could ever unite the whole world under his power. It won't be a flesh born man. It will be Satan himself, coming to OUR dimension to play God in Jerusalem.

Have you not read Revelation 12:7-14 about his future casting out of the heavenly, there being no more place found there for him? There are only 2 different dimensions of existence written of in all of God's Word. There is this earthly one we live in, and then there is the Heavenly one where God and the angels are, and also in a place of separation in that Heavenly dimension is where the abode of the wicked called hell is. When Satan and his angels are booted out of the Heavenly in the last days, there is only one other place he can appear. It is in OUR dimension, upon this earth.

And we can know for sure that casting out is still future, simply because the Revelation 12:7-14 Scripture includes the idea of the power of Christ coming in the Heavenly once Satan is booted down to this earth. And also, mention about saints in the last days is also given with that, linking to those to be delivered up at the 5th Seal of Rev.6.

It's time for brethren to quit playing religion and start actually believing God's Word as written.
 
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