“Sanctify Them”

Phil W said:

Chapter 13 of what?
What rubs my spirit the wrong way about this is that it says the "the lusts thereof are more and more weakened", indicating something other than Gal 5:24; wherein it says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Your source doesn't agree with scripture.

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I just Googled it. It appears to be from the Baptist Confession of Fatih.

Bible Highlighter said:

I just Googled it. It appears to be from the Baptist Confession of Faith.

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Thank you.
I hope he gets back to me with a response.

Phil W said:

Thank you.
I hope he gets back to me with a response.

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On the forums: If we quote from another source, we are supposed to put a source link or reference to the material we are quoting. We are not supposed to take credit for other people's written work. He may not have been aware of this rule, or he may have simply forgot about it. In either case, may God bless him, and you today in the Lord.

Phil W said:

Chapter 13 of what?
What rubs my spirit the wrong way about this is that it says the "the lusts thereof are more and more weakened", indicating something other than Gal 5:24; wherein it says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Your source doesn't agree with scripture.

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It is t in e 1689 confession of faith and is loaded with scripture.

WordSword said:

I would just like to point out that when souls are saved, it manifests that nothing will interrupt this occurrence. This means that the knowledge of when one is saved is not as significant to know as the fact that they've always been in the Book of Life, thus salvation is never coincidental but foreknown, and nothing will occur that will prevent it from transpiring.

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"When" souls are saved is an important point.
I believe the judgement of the final day will be the determinant. And they will be saved if their name is in the book of life.
Others say it has already happened.
What do you say?

ICONO'CLAST said:

It is t in e 1689 confession of faith and is loaded with scripture.

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Confession of who"s faith?
It is counter to Gal 5:24, which says the flesh with the affections and lusts have been killed.

Phil W said:

Confession of who"s faith?
It is counter to Gal 5:24, which says the flesh with the affections and lusts have been killed.

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Sanctification is progressive and ongoing.
If it were not, we would not be commanded to mortify sin.
The reigning power of sin has been broken, yet we are still able to sin.
You are not suggesting that you are sinless are you?

ICONO'CLAST said:

Sanctification is progressive and ongoing.
If it were not, we would not be commanded to mortify sin.
The reigning power of sin has been broken, yet we are still able to sin.
You are not suggesting that you are sinless are you?

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Was the sanctification of the temple, its instruments, or the priests, "on-going"?
No.
Once the blood was applied they were cleaned, set apart, consecrated, made holy...just like we are when the blood of Christ is applied to our bodies.
From that point we grow in grace and knowledge, but if you are not sanctified the Spirit of God will not reside in you as its' temple.
I am sinless...to the glory of God and as witness to the power of the resurrection of Christ.

Phil W said:

Was the sanctification of the temple, its instruments, or the priests, "on-going"?
No.
Once the blood was applied they were cleaned, set apart, consecrated, made holy...just like we are when the blood of Christ is applied to our bodies.
From that point we grow in grace and knowledge, but if you are not sanctified the Spirit of God will not reside in you as its' temple.
I am sinless...to the glory of God and as witness to the power of the resurrection of Christ.

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If you are speaking of being sinless in the sense of no known sin in your life, then yes, I agree that is possible.

But if you are speaking of reaching a state of sinless perfection you have deceived yourself. That is not possible in this mortal body.

Charlie24 said:

If you are speaking of being sinless in the sense of no known sin in your life, then yes, I agree that is possible.

But if you are speaking of reaching a state of sinless perfection you have deceived yourself. That is not possible in this mortal body.

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Care to define the difference in your two "if"s?
BTW, the "mortal body" was crucified and buried with Christ, as per Rom 6:3-6.
We have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, as new creatures free of the flesh and walking in the Spirit.
My, actually His vessel, cannot force me to commit sin.

Phil W said:

Care to define the difference in your two "if"s?
BTW, the "mortal body" was crucified and buried with Christ, as per Rom 6:3-6.
We have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, as new creatures free of the flesh and walking in the Spirit.
My, actually His vessel, cannot force me to commit sin.

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Well, you have reached a point that even the apostle Paul couldn't attain.

Congratulations!

Charlie24 said:

Well, you have reached a point that even the apostle Paul couldn't attain.
Congratulations!

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I live as Jesus, and also Paul, have exhorted and admonished.
I feel that Paul practiced what he preached.
It is written..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. " (2 Tim 2:19)

Phil W said:

I live as Jesus, and also Paul, have exhorted and admonished.
I feel that Paul practiced what he preached.
It is written..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. " (2 Tim 2:19)

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I'm not sinless like you so I guess I'll take your preaching and only hope I can reach your level.

Are there anymore like you or are you the only one?

Phil W said:

If a man repents of sin, but sins again, did he ever really repent?
I think not.
1 John 3:9 says those born of God CANNOT commit sin.
Therefor, No sinner is born of God.

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Well, I believe 1 John 3:9 has to be read in context to 1 John 3:6.
1 John 3:6 says, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him"

Whoever ABIDES IN HIM (Christ) does not sin. Meaning: We cannot sin while abiding in Christ.
This is what it is saying.

Now, the part that says the person who has never known Christ before if they sin:
Well, there are two possible explanations to this:


So 1 John 3:9 is not in reference to those who do not intend to sin, but it is in reference to those who justify sin or turn His grace into a license for immorality. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

You said:

OT men couldn't be made perfect, as rebirth was not yet available.

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This is a common misconception.

If you are interested, here is a thread at CF I created a while back that addresses this topic (with Bible verses):

Old Testament saints were born again.

Bible Highlighter said:

So you don't believe a Christian can fall away from the faith?
I have a ton of verses that so otherwise.

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Phil W said:

If a man repents of sin, but sins again, did he ever really repent?
I think not.
1 John 3:9 says those born of God CANNOT commit sin.
Therefor, No sinner is born of God.

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First, just so that there is no confusion on words: I believe the word "repentance" is defined as seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe the "fruits of repentance" is doing good deeds and or living holy as a part of seeking forgiveness with the Lord. If you are interested, I provide a long list of verses defending this view on repentance here (at CF):

Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?

Second, I believe Scripture has to be read as a whole. We have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and reconcile all the truths within them.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)

Paul says this about falling away:

We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

Phil W said:

OT men couldn't be made perfect, as rebirth was not yet available.
They had no way to "kill the flesh" and be raised as Spiritual men...walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

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Then why did God tell Abraham to be perfect?

"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." (Genesis 17:1).

Then why did God (by Moses's instruction) tell the Levite priests to be perfect?

"Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God." (Deuteronomy 18:13).

Why did God (by Solomon's instruction) tell the Israelites to be perfect in their heart?

"Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day." (1 Kings 8:61).

Why was Asa's heart said to be perfect?

"But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD all his days." (1 Kings 15:14).

Why did God say that Job was perfect?

"And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" (Job 1:8).

Surely Enoch was translated and did not see death because he lived a life that was pleasing to God.

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5).

"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Genesis 5:24).

Walking implies that Enoch obeyed God. For "walking in the light" (in 1 John 1:7) is related to loving one's brother in 1 John 2:9-11. Loving one's brother is a part of loving God according to Scripture (1 John 3:10).

Bible Highlighter said:

Well, I believe 1 John 3:9 has to be read in context to 1 John 3:6.
1 John 3:6 says, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him"
Whoever ABIDES IN HIM (Christ) does not sin. Meaning: We cannot sin while abiding in Christ.
This is what it is saying.

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Agreed.
But those abiding in Him are those born of God's seed.

Now, the part that says the person who has never known Christ before if they sin:
Well, there are two possible explanations to this:

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Part of what?
You lost me.

So 1 John 3:9 is not in reference to those who do not intend to sin, but it is in reference to those who justify sin or turn His grace into a license for immorality. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

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1 John 3:9 can apply to both those who do and those who don't commit sin.
Those who do are eliminated from saying they are born of God.
Those who don't commit sin can see the verification of 1 John 3:9's plausibility.

This is a common misconception.
If you are interested, here is a thread at CF I created a while back that addresses this topic (with Bible verses):
Old Testament saints were born again.

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If it isn't true, why didn't Nicodemus understand it in John 3?
How were we reborn?
By killing the flesh and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life...in baptism into Jesus and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-6)
Your link didn't "connect" so I can't see how OT men were reborn.

Bible Highlighter said:

First, just so that there is no confusion on words: I believe the word "repentance" is defined as seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe the "fruits of repentance" is doing good deeds and or living holy as a part of seeking forgiveness with the Lord. If you are interested, I provide a long list of verses defending this view on repentance here (at CF):

Click to expand...

I define repentance as "turn from" or, "change".
If a man turns from sin, he doesn't sin anymore.

Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?
Second, I believe Scripture has to be read as a whole. We have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and reconcile all the truths within them.
Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:
Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

Click to expand...

If they fall away they weren't "believers".

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

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Just semantics...
Lose-forfeit...synonyms to me.