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Since the "Full Preterist Safehouse" thread is getting a little bulky and lengthy, I thought it might be prudent to start a new, separate Full Preterist discussion thread in this "Controversial Christian Theology" corner of the forum. I hope the moderators don't object. If so, I guess this can always be moved back to the Safehouse thread.
When I introduce other Christians to the Full Preterist perspective on the "end times", I usually take them to the Book of Luke. Chapters 19-21 are so incredibly clear on the timing of Christ Jesus' return in judgment and glory that it is virtually inarguable what Jesus Himself wanted His disciples, followers and future believers in Him to understand concerning the fulfillment of His promises in relation to His Return.
Starting in Luke 19:11, we read, "11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear." The parable that follows (the Parable of the Minas) is very prophetic and focused on the return of the Master, Jesus Christ, to His Servants in judgment upon their efforts to be faithful in completing the mission and task He left to them to administer on His behalf. What the expositors, ministers, preachers and commentators on this passage tend to miss completely (the old "forest for the trees" problem) is the PURPOSE of this parable. And we have it spelled out for us very clearly, right in v.11. The whole purpose is to clarify the TIMING of Jesus' return. His followers expected Jesus to fully establish His kingdom IMMEDIATELY (right in front of their very eyes) that very day. They had no breakfast plans for the next day. This was it. It was happening right then and there. So Jesus presented them with this parable to clarify that there would be a period of time when He would leave them and then return to THEM - within their lifetimes. This is the inescapable, inarguable implication of this parable. No other interpretation is tenable or justifiable. Ministers and preachers get caught up in trying to understand the interpretation of the figurative "pounds" enstrusted to the Master's servants and His standards for judging them, etc. and they miss the whole point of the parable itself.
I would go through these chapters verse by verse but that might be a little too unwieldy and lengthy so I will move ahead to verses 41-44 of chapter 19, "41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.” Note that within forty years of Jesus' making these statements Jerusalem was surrounded, as the Romans and their allies laid siege to it, and it was destroyed along with the Temple in exactly these terms.
Skipping ahead to chapter 20:9-19 we read, "9 Then He began to tell the people this parable: “A certain man planted a vineyard, leased it to vinedressers, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the vinedressers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11 Again he sent another servant; and they beat him also, treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 And again he sent a third; and they wounded him also and cast him out. 13 “Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. Probably they will respect him when they see him.’ 14 But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’ 15 So they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others.”
And when they heard it they said, “Certainly not!” 17 Then He looked at them and said, “What then is this that is written: ‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone’? 18 Whoever falls on that stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”19 And the chief priests and the scribes that very hour sought to lay hands on Him, but they feared the people—for they knew He had spoken this parable against them."
The history of the Old Testament prophets and saints enduring persecution and attack from false spiritual leaders and enemies of God within the ranks of the religious leadership and hierarchy as described in this parable culminates in that very blatant statement in verse 19 - the chief priests and scribes who were there listening to this parable knew that it was directed very directly and specifically at THEM - those particular individuals alive at that time. The Scriptures don't say that they "mistakenly understood Jesus to be referring to them as those upon whom judgment was coming within their lifetimes". Instead, the clear, unmistakable inference here is that they were CORRECT in identifying themselves as the "vinedressers" in the parable who would end up "killing the heir to the vineyard" (Jesus) and receiving the wrath and judgment of God (the vineyard owner). All of this is not, in any way shape or form, implying some future judgment upon them in the afterlife thousands of years in the future at some future "return in judgment" millennia after their deaths.
I will continue this in a response to this initial post in order to shorten it.
When I introduce other Christians to the Full Preterist perspective on the "end times", I usually take them to the Book of Luke. Chapters 19-21 are so incredibly clear on the timing of Christ Jesus' return in judgment and glory that it is virtually inarguable what Jesus Himself wanted His disciples, followers and future believers in Him to understand concerning the fulfillment of His promises in relation to His Return.
Starting in Luke 19:11, we read, "11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear." The parable that follows (the Parable of the Minas) is very prophetic and focused on the return of the Master, Jesus Christ, to His Servants in judgment upon their efforts to be faithful in completing the mission and task He left to them to administer on His behalf. What the expositors, ministers, preachers and commentators on this passage tend to miss completely (the old "forest for the trees" problem) is the PURPOSE of this parable. And we have it spelled out for us very clearly, right in v.11. The whole purpose is to clarify the TIMING of Jesus' return. His followers expected Jesus to fully establish His kingdom IMMEDIATELY (right in front of their very eyes) that very day. They had no breakfast plans for the next day. This was it. It was happening right then and there. So Jesus presented them with this parable to clarify that there would be a period of time when He would leave them and then return to THEM - within their lifetimes. This is the inescapable, inarguable implication of this parable. No other interpretation is tenable or justifiable. Ministers and preachers get caught up in trying to understand the interpretation of the figurative "pounds" enstrusted to the Master's servants and His standards for judging them, etc. and they miss the whole point of the parable itself.
I would go through these chapters verse by verse but that might be a little too unwieldy and lengthy so I will move ahead to verses 41-44 of chapter 19, "41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.” Note that within forty years of Jesus' making these statements Jerusalem was surrounded, as the Romans and their allies laid siege to it, and it was destroyed along with the Temple in exactly these terms.
Skipping ahead to chapter 20:9-19 we read, "9 Then He began to tell the people this parable: “A certain man planted a vineyard, leased it to vinedressers, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the vinedressers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11 Again he sent another servant; and they beat him also, treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 And again he sent a third; and they wounded him also and cast him out. 13 “Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. Probably they will respect him when they see him.’ 14 But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.’ 15 So they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others.”
And when they heard it they said, “Certainly not!” 17 Then He looked at them and said, “What then is this that is written: ‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone’? 18 Whoever falls on that stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”19 And the chief priests and the scribes that very hour sought to lay hands on Him, but they feared the people—for they knew He had spoken this parable against them."
The history of the Old Testament prophets and saints enduring persecution and attack from false spiritual leaders and enemies of God within the ranks of the religious leadership and hierarchy as described in this parable culminates in that very blatant statement in verse 19 - the chief priests and scribes who were there listening to this parable knew that it was directed very directly and specifically at THEM - those particular individuals alive at that time. The Scriptures don't say that they "mistakenly understood Jesus to be referring to them as those upon whom judgment was coming within their lifetimes". Instead, the clear, unmistakable inference here is that they were CORRECT in identifying themselves as the "vinedressers" in the parable who would end up "killing the heir to the vineyard" (Jesus) and receiving the wrath and judgment of God (the vineyard owner). All of this is not, in any way shape or form, implying some future judgment upon them in the afterlife thousands of years in the future at some future "return in judgment" millennia after their deaths.
I will continue this in a response to this initial post in order to shorten it.