The seven kings of Revelation 17:10

Douggg

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How is a common practice among all Jews a special sign? Jews rode donkeys. Roman officers rode horses.
It was special because the kings did not ride donkeys. Solomon had his own stables.

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Zecharian 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Are you aware of the concept of "the" messiah was to become the King of Israel?
 
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faroukfarouk

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LOLOL.. Futurists used to claim JFK was the Antichrist.

If you accept Darby and Scofield, Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey as prophets, you're on the right track.
A good approach is to make a distinction in Scripture between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32), making sure who various passages are really talking about; this helps interpretation, as Darby pointed out.
 
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Douggg

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A good approach is to make a distinction in Scripture between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32), making sure who various passages are really talking about; this helps interpretation, as Darby pointed out.
1Corinthians10:32 is well said.
 
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summerville

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Yeah, I know the Messiah was expected to be an anointed warrior king who would defeat the Romans.
 
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nolidad

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Anti - can mean against, or instead of, or both. In the case of the Antichrist, both.

But not in the greek sorry.

The Jews are looking for the messiah, to be anointed the king of Israel. They believe the person will be anointed the king of Israel by a known prophet. Every passover meal, they set a place for Elijah. The Jews believe that some persons are reincarnated.

Jews do not believe in any lkind of reincarnation. They believe Elijah will return from heaven. That is not reincarnation. Elijah was caught up in a chariot. He does not have to be re-incarnated or take on a new life.

Moses made it a requirement of all future leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year interval. The Jews still hold to that requirement. Can't be done as long as the muslims are on the temple mount. The 7 years following Gog/Magog will make it possible. The seven years are in Ezekiel 39, which after Gog's mass grave buriel, there is the Armageddon feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20, with Jesus Himself speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to earth to rule the nations, and reflecting of why the house of Israel went in dispersion for having transgressed against him.

First I do hope this time you will cite SCripture or some text that shows Moses required all future leaders to confirm the Law of Sinai for 7 years! There is nothing said in the Bible or even implied to Joshua who took over for Moses.

And The battle of Gog/magog is not Armeggedon. It is also called the Russian invasion of Israel for Gog is a Russian leader and his allies are limited while Armeggedon is the armies of the whole globe gathered together to fight against Jesus, while the gog invasion is took take a spoil and prey!

Also after the Gog invasion Israel will be burning the weapons of war for fuel and burying th edead for 7 months. You really think the restored earth is going to see Israel scouring the countryside for the dead???

Jesus does not return until Jerusalem says blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Matthew 23:39. In John 12:12-15, before being rejected by the religious leaders, his followers welcomed him riding into Jerusalem riding the donkey, Zechariah 9:9..... "13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

And you say that the Antichrist does not have to be the king of Israel, coming in his own name?

It is the Jews and not Jerusalem that have to say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord. Cities don't speak.

You need to think a minute. Do you really think that Israel in the future would anoint someone King that does not come in the name of Yahweh?

And how can the antichrist sign a 7 year treaty with Israel if He is the king? He signs it twice??

There is no implication that the Antichrist is a king of Israel. King or ruler yes- but of Israel no! But Daniel 9 gives his partial identity. He is a ruler of the Roman people for they are th eones who cam and destroyed the sanctuary! Whether it is Rome of Daniels, Jesus, or the 70th week time is unsure, and He doesn't even need to be Italian, just a ruler of the people who destroyed the sanctuary.
 
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nolidad

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Your ad hominem is noted and treated for what it is: fallacious.

Everything I have posted has been or can be easily evidenced. Yes, Dispensational eschatology is futurist. It has also bread a never-ending series of false teachers, false predictors, and false prognosticators that no other theology fosters. No other theology comes remotely close. This fact is right here and now being demonstrated if what this op stated does not come true in the next ten years. He will be just one more guy in an avery, very, long list of false teachers.

He claims not to be Dispensationalist but that's not wholly important because a false teacher is still a false teacher. An unrepentant false teacher is still an unreentant false teacher. And an unrepentant false teacher who will not be accountable for what he posts is still an unaccountable unrepentant false teacher.

And nolidad, if you are an adherent of Dispensationalism then this is one of many reasons for you to reconsider that eschatology.

This op, asserts a preterist position for the first six kings of Revelation 17:10 and then departs from that context without explanation to hypothesize (re: imagine) a 21st century fulfillment without cause because first century conditions of Rome satisfy the metrics of the verse in question. That does not change even if Galba isn't the seventh king. The fact remains several posters asked for the scriptural basis for interjecting the Julio-Claudian into the text and no valid explanation has been provided. None.

If a person's eschatology is what drives the departure from the first century context inherent in the scripture's text then that....


...is the cart before the horse.


Which is one more reason to reconsider the entire far-futurist paradigm.


If Nero is the sixth king then look to the first century for the seventh king. Doing otherwise must be explained before offering alternatives. Without such justification there is no basis for any possible alternative.

So to you those who hold ot a dispensational eschatology are wolves in sheep clothing like I said prior!

I do hold that 6 of the 7 mountains which are kings have come and gone. I have not seen one of you futurists list an honest answer to that! Five are fallen and one is!

Domitian is the "one is" for he is the one who reigned during Johns exile on Patmos! He is the eleventh cesar and not of the Julio/Claudian dynasty so those two "futurist hypotheses" false!

There are many dispensationialists who hold to very quirky eschatologies! Clarence Larkin was the first and many have followed.

As for Nero, He died at least 14 years before John wrote Revelation so He cannot be the sixth king or the one that is in Rev. 17:10.

The Word translated as king is basileus which can also be kingdom or rule.

I cannot say for sure what or who the five and sixth are , but one very interesting possibility is this:

The Form of Government that Rome had evolved over time that can be seen historically.

The Tarquin Kings from 753-510 B.C.
The counsulors 510-494 B.C.
The Plebians or dictators 494-390 B.C.
Republicans or Decimvers (counsel of ten) 390-59 B.C.
The Triumverate 59-27 B.C.
The Cesars and Imperialistic Rule 27 B.C.- present.

As you can see byt the time John wrote, 5 had fallen, one is and another yet to come who is known as the antichrist.
 
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nolidad

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The latest research points to an exile in Nero's reign.

And just what is that latest research that moves the date of Johns official exile back over 14 years??????

The alternate view is that John was exiled under Titus AFTER Nero died!

But I await to see the scholarship you will present.
 
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Douggg

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First I do hope this time you will cite SCripture or some text that shows Moses required all future leaders to confirm the Law of Sinai for 7 years! There is nothing said in the Bible or even implied to Joshua who took over for Moses.
In Deuteronomy 31:9-13.
1 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

2 And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.


9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

[my comment: Moses wrote the requirement that he was about to give them down. The essence of the law is in verse 13 below.]

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

It does not use the word "confirm" in the above text. But the essence of the requirement by Moses constitutes confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant, centered on that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever.

Moses made the speech to the nation of Israel, knowing that he would not be going into the promised land. He wanted to make sure that future generations would not forget all that the children of Israel went through to inherit the land. So them in the leadership position are supposed to make a commemorative speech to the nation - on a 7 year cycle. The cycle has been interrupted. Which the Antichrist will make the speech and reset the 7 years cycle.
 
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nolidad

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In Deuteronomy 31:9-13.
1 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

2 And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.


9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

[my comment: Moses wrote the requirement that he was about to give them down. The essence of the law is in verse 13 below.]

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

It does not use the word "confirm" in the above text. But the essence of the requirement by Moses constitutes confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant, centered on that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever.

Moses made the speech to the nation of Israel, knowing that he would not be going into the promised land. He wanted to make sure that future generations would not forget all that the children of Israel went through to inherit the land. So them in the leadership position are supposed to make a commemorative speech to the nation - on a 7 year cycle. The cycle has been interrupted. Which the Antichrist will make the speech and reset the 7 years cycle.

Aahh! The famous word essence! Sorry my brother, but this was a command to read the Law every Sabbath year so that Israel would remember the Law and serve Him unto all generations!

And you seem to forget that the entire Sinai Covenant has been rendered null and void but the Better sacrifice of the blood of Jesus!
 
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Douggg

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And The battle of Gog/magog is not Armeggedon. It is also called the Russian invasion of Israel for Gog is a Russian leader and his allies are limited while Armeggedon is the armies of the whole globe gathered together to fight against Jesus, while the gog invasion is took take a spoil and prey!
I agree that Gog/Magog is not Armageddon. There are two feast on the dead in Ezekiel 39. The first on Gog's army, Ezekiel 39:4. The second, the Armageddon event, Ezekiel 39:17-20, 7 years later.

Also after the Gog invasion Israel will be burning the weapons of war for fuel and burying th edead for 7 months. You really think the restored earth is going to see Israel scouring the countryside for the dead???
They bury the bodies for 7 months, Ezekiel 39:11-16. The burn the remains of the implements of war for 7 years, Ezekiel 39:9-10. Since it indicates instead of collecting wood (normally used for cooking and heat), it appears to be referring to the diesel fuel in the vehicles.
 
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Douggg

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Aahh! The famous word essence! Sorry my brother, but this was a command to read the Law every Sabbath year so that Israel would remember the Law and serve Him unto all generations!
No, not to read the law (all of the 613 list of laws ). Moses wrote down a brief law right then and there, as he addressed the nation of Israel - to make the commenorative speech to the nation.

9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

"this" law, the one he was about to verbally command them to do.

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
 
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Douggg

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And how can the antichrist sign a 7 year treaty with Israel if He is the king? He signs it twice??
There is no treaty signed. There is no treaty and there is no signing. Confirming the covenant for 7 years is referring to Moses's requirement, which he wrote down as a law, so they would not forget.
 
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Douggg

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Oberamagau

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Armies under Islam did not destroy the temple and city.

The Romans followed the greeks in both Daniel 2 Daniel 7.

Islam, nor muslims existed to fit the five fallen, and one is kings.
I don't want to derail the thread but you've seen it before - I'm sure. Another time we'll talk about Daniel 2 and 7. Rome is non-existent in both. AND - I'm not a believer in Daniel's 70th week. Daniel 9:24-27 is past tense to me.
 
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Oberamagau

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Armies under Islam did not destroy the temple and city.

The Romans followed the greeks in both Daniel 2 Daniel 7.

Islam, nor muslims existed to fit the five fallen, and one is kings.
You're looking at the beast from progressive 'past tense' fulfillment culminating into an end-time empire. NONE of the heads or horns existed millennia ago. They are ALL end-time kings. Five Fallen OR Have Fallen IS INCORRECT

FIVE FALL - correct!
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev17.pdf
 
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Josheb

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So to you those who hold ot a dispensational eschatology are wolves in sheep clothing like I said prior!
Never said any such thing.

I don't trade posts with those who post straw men.
I don't trade posts with those who put words I didn't post into my posts.
I don't trade posts with those who argue straw men and don't self-correct when the errors are noted.
I don't trade posts with posters who ignore posts' actual contents.
I don't trade posts with posters who post ad hominem.
I don't trade posts with postes who try to hijack others' ops.
I don't trade posts with those who cannot or will not stay on topic.

So correct your own content if you want to trade posts with me.


What I said about Dispensationalism is true and easily verified. What I said about Dispensationalists is common and evident in this op. I did not make any of it up. You cannot prove I think Dispensationalists are wolves in sheeps clothing. I never said any such thing, never implied any such thing, never insinuated and such thing and do not believe such a thing. If I asked you to prove me stating such a thing you could not prove your own claim You made that up. You bore false witness.

So correct you own content if you wish to trade posts with me.
 
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