Were some stories in the Bible not literal history?

JohnClay said:

The most important patriarchs (after the flood) only lived to less than 200 years - while ancestors before the flood (and Noah) usually lived to 900+.

Note that there are three main versions of the numbers in the genealogies....
Genealogies of Genesis - Wikipedia

I think all three versions involve all of Noah's ancestors dying within a couple of years before the flood. I think that's a pretty impressive achievement - they didn't use our simpler math techniques.

Maybe they wanted to make the age of the earth fairly old without having to add a lot more ancestors... then after that they gradually decreased the ages until they became realistic (like Moses' 120 year life span)

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Did you have any thoughts on my reply?

Matthew86 said:

I have never seen support of that, quite obviously Genesis is a retelling of an ancient story. Evidence would suggest the garden of eden would be the garden of atun the Pharoah in Egypt that became a mono theist and then was kicked out of egypt and they scribbled him out and descercated all the symbols of him. Sounds like a match to me, and of course where is the greatest wonder of the world right in the heart of egypt.

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I don't see the match.

Nihilist Virus said:

I don't see the match.

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Sounds like the same story the Bible says it tells, return to one God and stop worshipping multiple people as Gods. Everyone agrees Egypt is the cradle of civilization so why would you look anywhere but Egypt if the Jews are saying they have a history going back to Genesis. Im not saying anything is anything all i am saying there is you COULD link this pharoah with the Jews as they are still the only ones the actually have a monotheistic view and practice of One God you and me both equal no god men pagan crap. Do some research it is rather interesting. Aten changes worship to one God then is kicked out of the garden of aten or maybe eden. Just saying it does fit the whole Exodus story. The jews claim they were right in line with the Pharoah at one point with Joseph being high up on the chain of command. Similarities, quite a few.
Akhenaten (/ˌækəˈnɑːtən/;[1] also spelled Echnaton,[6] Akhenaton,[7] Ikhnaton,[8] and Khuenaten;[9][10] meaning "Effective for Aten"), known before the fifth year of his reign as Amenhotep IV (sometimes given its Greek form, Amenophis IV, and meaning "Amun Is Satisfied"), was an ancient Egyptian pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty, who ruled for 17 years and died perhaps in 1336 BC or 1334 BC. He is noted for abandoning traditional Egyptian polytheism and introducing worship centered on the Aten (notably instead of Amun, the temples of which he destroyed, the name of whom he rubbed off and the priests of whom he left without resources), which is sometimes described as monolatristic, henotheistic, or even quasi-monotheistic. An early inscription likens the Aten to the sun as compared to stars, and later official language avoids calling the Aten a god, giving the solar deity a status above mere gods.

JohnClay said:

For Christians:

What stories in the Bible didn't literally happen as they were described?

e.g. the talking snake, the global Flood, the command in Deut 20 to kill all of the inhabitants of the cities in the promised land...

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I personally think the Bible is inerrant.
If it's possible to understand a Bible verse in a literal manner, it should be understood that way, in my opinion.
Except for prophecy - the rules are changed for prophecy.

If you allow for figurative only interpretation every once in a while... the Bible would be the property of the wise and well-educated who know how to interpret common earthly literature.

However, God is no respecter of persons, see Ephesians 6:9. For this reason, he would never let the wise enjoy such an advantage over the non-educated population.

Thomas

InterestedAtheist said:

Interesting that some Christians believe that a worldwide flood is obviously just a story, but that a man coming back from the dead obviously happened.

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I think it was the actual story of people who were on the Ark.
So the story reads from that point of view.

Tom 1 said:

It seems to be a reflection, toned down a bit maybe, of a common practice at the time. Kings in the Sumerian king list, for example, apparently ruled for 10s of thousands of years, in some cases.

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If you note that people in scripture didn't have surnames. So a son with the same name replaced the fathers standing and reputation.

thomas_t said:

I personally think the Bible is inerrant.

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The subject is inerrant. The writers were just sinners like us.
Paul said he was the worst of all sinners. Take that literally.

SkyWriting said:

If you note that people in scripture didn't have surnames. So a son with the same name replaced the fathers standing and reputation.

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Yes, there are a lot of things to consider I think. Often lists were arranged according to symbolic numbers (the 10 generations from Adam to Noah for example), and were comprised of certain important or representative figures.

SkyWriting said:

I think it was the actual story of people who were on the Ark.

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Why do you think that?

InterestedAtheist said:

Why do you think that?

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Because that's how stories get told, by a person who is in them.

JohnClay said:

So you're saying that the reason why there were 10 names is because 10 was a special number? I think 12 and 40 are a lot more special.
Genealogies of Genesis - Wikipedia
There are dozens of numbers in the genealogies - I don't think they have any symbolic meaning - except for 777 for Lamech (in one of the 3 versions). In that link it shows that there are at least 3 versions of the genealogies. One version even has an extra person - "Cainan".

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Many numbers had/have significance in ancient texts, including the bible. I don't think they are ranked in order of specialness, but they are attached to different meanings. It's a pretty handy shorthand for conveying meaning, 40 years/40 days, for example, would be taken to mean 'a long time'.

SkyWriting said:

Because that's how stories get told, by a person who is in them.

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Hmmm. So a book is written that tells you something happened, and you automatically believe it? Do you believe every book that says it is telling the truth is telling the truth?

InterestedAtheist said:

Hmmm. So a book is written that tells you something happened, and you automatically believe it? Do you believe every book that says it is telling the truth is telling the truth?

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I don't even believe you're an atheist who really wants to know about me.
Or that you're a man. Or that you're an english courtier.

SkyWriting said:

I don't even believe you're an atheist who really wants to know about me.
Or that you're a man. Or that you're an english courtier.

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I'm not an English courtier. This is a picture of a character played by Rowan Atkinson, not of me.
Still, I see you believe whatever you want to believe. Great way to find out the truth!

SkyWriting said:

All people do that, silly.

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First of all, please be reminded of the forum rules about being polite to one another.
Second, you're wrong. All people don't just believe what they want to believe. Those that do are acting unreasonably. Logically, we shouldn't believe something because we want to believe it, but because the evidence shows it to be true.

SkyWriting said:

And how would you recognize truth if it bit you in the Adder?

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Reported for impoliteness.

SkyWriting said:

You think because somebody tells you something, it's automatically truth?

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No, but apparently you do, because you said you believe in Noah's Arm because that's how stories get told, by a person who is in them.

SkyWriting said:

I guess you don't believe what you are saying.

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You guess wrong.

JohnClay said:

For Christians:

What stories in the Bible didn't literally happen as they were described?

e.g. the talking snake, the global Flood, the command in Deut 20 to kill all of the inhabitants of the cities in the promised land...

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I guarantee you will get a whole variety of responses to this question. I was at my partners church the other day and the speaker stated as fact that the flood happened as described in the Bible, that the talking snake happened as described in the Bible and help will happen as described in the Bible.

I guarantee you will get a whole variety of responses to this question. I was at my partners church the other day and the speaker stated as fact that the flood happened as described in the Bible, that the talking snake happened as described in the Bible and help will happen as described in the Bible.
I can tell you for a fact that many people in the congregation did not take the stories literally, and except they are interpretations designed to make a point.

As an atheist I feel that no sane person could believe in the talking snake, or the flood or Jonah as 3 examples as literally true, but I know that some people do - and that they appear to be sane!

Dave RP said:

As an atheist I feel that no sane person could believe in the talking snake, or the flood or Jonah as 3 examples as literally true, but I know that some people do - and that they appear to be sane!

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I do. And I am sane.
God, the Almighty, can do miracles!