Freedoms, libertarianism versus the Bible

SkyWriting

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Are you saying that local law is rejecting God's authority and therefore cursing a ruler? I'm trying to follow your logic but you are not making it easy.
Local law is God's authority on earth.
I know, it's counter intuitive to Christians. Preachers do not like what scripture says about government being God's will.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Local law is God's authority on earth.
I know, it's counter intuitive to Christians. Preachers do not like what scripture says about government being God's will.

Probably they reject that interpretation of the scripture.
 
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SkyWriting

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Probably they reject that interpretation of the scripture.

That's a lot of rejecting to do:

1 Peter 2:13-17
2 Peter 2:10
Titus 3
1 Timothy 2
Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1
Romans 13
Proverbs 21
John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 29
Proverbs 8:15
Psalms 94:20
Deuteronomy 28
Daniel 2:21
John 19:10-11
Jude 1:8
Colossians 1:15-17
Ecclesiastes 10:20
Acts 8:32
Acts 23:5
Matthew 10:38
 
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createdtoworship

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That's how God works.

Exodus 22:28
“You shall not revile God, nor curse a ruler of your people.
yes, so we vote to fight against that policy. That is not going against government but reforming government to a more moral or biblical standard.
 
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createdtoworship

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anyway the whole point of this is to show that NO a pastor does not have universal freedom in america to reject a homosexual marriage ceremony in his church. So again as the OP says the freedom to marry a homosexual couple cost the freedom of a pastor to refuse to marry them, or a photographer to refuse to shoot the wedding or a baker to refuse to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding. Freedoms are not free. One freedom always costs another his freedom. That is why it's best to submit your freedom to God. Limit yourself for the sake of God's commands.
 
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grasping the after wind

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That's a lot of rejecting to do:

1 Peter 2:13-17
2 Peter 2:10
Titus 3
1 Timothy 2
Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1
Romans 13
Proverbs 21
John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 29
Proverbs 8:15
Psalms 94:20
Deuteronomy 28
Daniel 2:21
John 19:10-11
Jude 1:8
Colossians 1:15-17
Ecclesiastes 10:20
Acts 8:32
Acts 23:5
Matthew 10:38

Your interpretation may seem correct to you but may not to others. I suspect these preachers you mentioned would find just as many quotations to refute your particular interpretation as you have to assert it. I am not a preacher inclined to argue the interpretation point. I do not see cursing and criticizing or attempting to influence as equivalent concepts though. Nor do I think that trying to change a secular law is somehow being disrespectful to God's authority. Abraham did not receive God's wrath for trying to negotiate with God over the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah. As a matter of fact God was willing to bargain with him.
 
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Strathos

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think about it this way, a baker had to go to the supreme court to get cleared to do his bakery the way he wanted, it was a all out nightmare for him. I remember reading about it all through it. Mexico, same thing but did not end up well for the photographer. Point is that this is happening every where. And even if all the cases are ruled in favor of the christian, the point is this......it's not a freedom IF YOU HAVE TO GO TO COURT TO HAVE IT.

First of all, you started by talking about pastors. Not bakers or photographers. Please don't move the goalposts.
 
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createdtoworship

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First of all, you started by talking about pastors. Not bakers or photographers. Please don't move the goalposts.
I gave examples of all of them. Just read the thread. But to say that pastors have protections that others don't is wishful thinking anyway.
 
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durangodawood

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Freedoms, libertarianism versus the Bible
Eyes on the prize, people!

Ayn Rand emoticon.jpg
 
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Strathos

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I gave examples of all of them. Just read the thread. But to say that pastors have protections that others don't is wishful thinking anyway.

No you haven't. Name one instance in the US where a pastor was forced to perform a same-sex wedding against his will. You can't find one because none exist.
 
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createdtoworship

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No you haven't. Name one instance in the US where a pastor was forced to perform a same-sex wedding against his will. You can't find one because none exist.

see this link as well as an explanation below...
Freedoms, libertarianism versus the Bible

again sir, I am saying that many lawsuits have occured. Originally I states an 80 percent success rate of homosexuals, fortunately in the last five years, more courts are siding with pastors, but the link above shows many cases.

I am talking about all prejudiced behavior against christians, not just pastors. I am not changing the bars. I mentioned pastors, and there have been cases, but I also add to that. One can always add proof. We are not bound to support one thesis our whole life. One can add what is called circumstantial evidence, to support a claim. It's not moving the goalposts because pastors are christians, and some christians are pastors. It's a more macro view point. But anyway, here is yet another proof of bias against christians....
Elizabeth Warren Attacks Christian Schools for Following Biblical Sexual Morality
 
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createdtoworship

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All I see are red herrings because you can't answer the fact that no church or pastor has ever been forced to marry someone in the US.
the fact pastors have to sue to have freedom, the fact that wedding bakers have to sue to have freedom, the fact that photraphers have to sue to have freedom shows that this freedom is not there by default as it sets in the current legislation. Again see this post:
Freedoms, libertarianism versus the Bible

In order for pastors to be free NOT to marry a homosexual, they need a law to exempts pastors from legal action. As it sets right now any homosexual who is refused either by a wedding cake baker, a photographer, or a minister is discriminated against based on their sexual status, and that currently is against the law.
 
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createdtoworship

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You named one instance of pastors filing a suit, and I already explained why it was an unusual circumstance that was quickly rectified.
ok lets try this again:


here are two cases, and I ran out of time looking, I can look again later

  1. Idaho Ministers Forced to Officiate Gay Weddings
  2. City threatens to arrest ministers who refuse to perform same-sex weddings
furthermore here is a ugandan pastor sued by LGBT activists for teaching against homosexuality:
A US pastor sued by Ugandan LGBT activists says he faces a “powerful" international gay network

and there are a host of other lawsuits of churches who refuse to hire for instance homosexual youth pastors, but those are too many to post.
 
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Strathos

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Both of those first two links are about the same case we were just discussing. That's the only one you can point to because the church was not registered as a tax-exempt religious institution for some odd reason, but that was later fixed.

The third one is from Uganda, not the US (and considering that's the country that nearly implemented a death penalty for homosexuality, and only softened it to life in prison, it's pretty hard to feel sympathy for the guy).
 
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