Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

1an said:

See ewq1938 signature:

Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Rev 21:7
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock
Ps 78:35, 1 Cor 10:4

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I am not arguing against the Trinity doctrine.
What I am arguing against is the idea that doctrine saves anyone.
We are not saved by doctrine.

Saint Steven said: ↑
No one is saved by doctrine.

There can be more than one position on a doctrine. How do you decide which one saves?

Oberamagau said:

ALSO...
There are very few damnable doctrines and the Trinity isn't one of them.

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I agree.
And it depends on who you ask as well.
To some, everything is black and white. Others recognize gray areas. There is no consensus in any of this. Another reason why doctrine doesn't save anyone. Who's doctrine? (no consensus)

This is why we have creeds. They define the minimum doctrinal stance for the church. But even creeds don't save. And I imagine you don't like the creeds, since they are Trinitarian.

Saint Steven said:

I am not arguing against the Trinity doctrine.
What I am arguing against is the idea that doctrine saves anyone.
We are not saved by doctrine.

Saint Steven said: ↑
No one is saved by doctrine.

There can be more than one position on a doctrine. How do you decide which one saves?

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I agree we are not saved by doctrine.

1an said:

I agree we are not saved by doctrine.

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Very good.
Trinitarianism is a doctrine.
Do you have to be a Trinitarian to be saved?

Saint Steven said:

I agree.
And it depends on who you ask as well.
To some, everything is black and white. Others recognize gray areas. There is no consensus in any of this. Another reason why doctrine doesn't save anyone. Who's doctrine? (no consensus)

This is why we have creeds. They define the minimum doctrinal stance for the church. But even creeds don't save. And I imagine you don't like the creeds, since they are Trinitarian.

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I am glad you say creeds have some doctrinal stance, because creeds do not save either.

Saint Steven said:

Very good.
Trinitarianism is a doctrine.
Do you have to be a Trinitarian to be saved?

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Well, seeing as only God can forgive sins, then I think maybe one has to believe Jesus is "God with us."

Do you know the word 'Godhead' appears three times in the Bible?

1an said:

Well, seeing as only God can forgive sins, then I think maybe one has to believe Jesus is "God with us."

Do you know the word 'Godhead' appears three times in the Bible?

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You are flopping back and forth. (see your quote below) You seem to be struggling with this.

FYI: Non-Trinitarians believe in a godhead too. A godhead of two rather than three.

1an said: ↑
I agree we are not saved by doctrine.

Saint Steven said:

You are flopping back and forth. (see your quote below) You seem to be struggling with this.

FYI: Non-Trinitarians believe in a godhead too. A godhead of two rather than three.

1an said: ↑
I agree we are not saved by doctrine.

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Why not do the job properly and believe in One God who is Spirit and present in Jesus?

Saint Steven said:

You are flopping back and forth. (see your quote below) You seem to be struggling with this.

FYI: Non-Trinitarians believe in a godhead too. A godhead of two rather than three.

1an said: ↑
I agree we are not saved by doctrine.

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We are not saved by doctrine or creeds, we are saved by the blood of the Lamb.

1an said:

Why not do the job properly and believe in One God who is Spirit and present in Jesus?

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That's fine, but a new convert, or even some Christians cannot even grasp such a thing. Can you even explain it to them so that they can understand?

Saint Steven said:

That's fine, but a new convert, or even some Christians cannot even grasp such a thing. Can you even explain it to them so that they can understand?

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Only the name changed from Yahweh to Jesus and then only for 33 years. Would you like me to show you Jesus aka Yahweh from scripture?

Saint Steven said:

That's fine, but a new convert, or even some Christians cannot even grasp such a thing. Can you even explain it to them so that they can understand?

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They are the same.

Genesis 1:1 God is the Creator
John 1:3-10 Jesus is the Creator

Genesis 17:1 The Almighty is God
Rev. 1:8 Jesus is the Almighty

Exodus 3:14 The “I am” is God
John 8:58 Jesus is the “I am”

Deut. 10:17 The Lord of Lords is God
Rev. 19:16 Jesus is Lord of Lords

Ps 18:31 The Rock is God
I Cor 10:4 Jesus is the Rock

Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus

Ps 146:10 God shall reign forever
Luke 1:33 Jesus will reign forever

Isa 40:11 The Shepherd is God
John 10:16 Jesus is the Shepherd

Isa 41:14 The Redeemer is God
Luke 1:68 Jesus is the Redeemer

Isa 43:10 God said, “I am he”
John 8:24 Jesus said, “I am he”

Isa 43:10,11 (God is the Saviour
Luke 2:11 Jesus is the Saviour

Jer 31:32 God, the One Husband
II Cor. 11:2 Jesus-The One Husband

Zec 14:4-5 God is coming
Matt 25:31 Jesus is coming

Mal 1:6 The One Master is God
Matt 23:8 Jesus is the One Master

Isa 43:15 The Holy One is God
Acts 3:14 Jesus is the Holy One

Isa 43:15 God is King of Israel
Matt 27:37 Jesus is King of Israel

Isa 45:21 The One Saviour is God
Acts 4:12 Jesus is the One Saviour

Isa 43:10,11 God is the only Saviour
Titus 1:4 Jesus is the only Saviour

Isa 44:6 The first and last is God
Rev. 1:8, 22:13 Jesus is first and last

Isa. 44:6 The King of Israel is God
John 1:49 Jesus is King of Israel

Isa. 45:23 Every knee must bow to God
Phil 2:10-11 Every knee must bow to Jesus

Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus
.

Saint Steven said:

I agree.
And it depends on who you ask as well.
To some, everything is black and white. Others recognize gray areas. There is no consensus in any of this. Another reason why doctrine doesn't save anyone. Who's doctrine? (no consensus)

This is why we have creeds. They define the minimum doctrinal stance for the church. But even creeds don't save. And I imagine you don't like the creeds, since they are Trinitarian.

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The apostles and Nicaean Creed are NON-Trinitarian. We have to keep in mind just WHAT the Trinity doctrine teaches and those teachings are not found in the Creeds. A few minor Trinitarian concepts are mentioned but the doctrine itself is not. I've read them over and over again and they DON'T mention a Trinity or allude to one....the way Trinity is taught!

1an said:

Well, seeing as only God can forgive sins, then I think maybe one has to believe Jesus is "God with us."

Do you know the word 'Godhead' appears three times in the Bible?

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We know that God cannot be tempted and he cannot sin, correct? If Jesus was God then that means he could NOT have been tempted and sinned anyway. Doesn't that make Jesus a fraud and the cross a hoax?

The word GODHEAD is "theotes" and means 'divine nature or divinity which means Christ was sent by the Father and was full of the holy spirit.

Actually, the word GODHEAD is used ONCE but, the trinitarian the slant imposed by the KJV translators use the word Godhead 3 times. Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, and Colossians 2:9. The word IS a trinitarian invention. The interlinear uses the word 'deity' which is to say - divinity or divine nature like it is attributed to believers in 2 Peter 1:4...

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

Colossians 2:9 is not talking about Christ being God, but about God through the holy spirit providing Christ with "fullness."

What this verse is saying is made clear in Colossians 1:9. "God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him." - and -

John 3:34 "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the spirit without limit."

Saint Steven said:

That's fine, but a new convert, or even some Christians cannot even grasp such a thing. Can you even explain it to them so that they can understand?

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My Father is in me, as your father is in you.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (MKJV) Colossians 2:9

1an said:

Only the name changed from Yahweh to Jesus and then only for 33 years. Would you like me to show you Jesus aka Yahweh from scripture?

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Now I'm wondering... ???
Do you not believe in the Trinity doctrine?
God, three in one. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), God the Holy Spirit.
The three persons of the Trinity.

Oberamagau said:

The apostles and Nicaean Creed are NON-Trinitarian. We have to keep in mind just WHAT the Trinity doctrine teaches and those teachings are not found in the Creeds. A few minor Trinitarian concepts are mentioned but the doctrine itself is not. I've read them over and over again and they DON'T mention a Trinity or allude to one....the way Trinity is taught!

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How do you substantiate your claim that the Nicene Creed is not Trinitarian?

Saint Steven said:

Now I'm wondering... ???
Do you not believe in the Trinity doctrine?
God, three in one. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), God the Holy Spirit.
The three persons of the Trinity.

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I believe in 1 God in heaven, on earth and in our hearts. He is Father in heaven, flesh and blood on earth, and His Spirit is omnipresent. God is one, manifest in three persons. He, the Comforter, is with us now. They are deity, and they are One. This is totally scriptural. What does that make me? You tell me.

Andrewn said:

Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JW are major non-Trinitarian groups. Are there other significant non-Trinitarians? Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

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Although the word "Trinity" is not found within the Scriptures, the word "Godhead" is used instead (Acts of the Apostles 17:29) (Romans 1:20) (Colossians 2:9).

The most clearest verse in Scripture that describes the Trinity is 1 John 5:7. This verse appears in the King James Version but it is wrongfully removed from many Modern Translations.

1 John 5:7 says,

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Now, there are two wrong extremes people have made involving the Trinity.

#1. Modalism
(Which is a belief held by United Pentecostals).
This says that there is no distinctive persons within the Godhead. That God the Father just puts on a mask and pretends to be the Son; Others believe it says all three persons are smashed together whereby the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost do not have any kind of distinctiveness anymore. But the Bible makes it clear that the Father sent the Son to die for our sins (And it was not the Son sending the Father) (1 John 4:14). The Bible makes it clear that one cannot be forgiven if they speak a word against the Holy Spirit but yet, this is not the case if one speaks a word against the Son, though (Matthew 12:32).

#2. Tritheism
(Which is a belief held by Mormons).
This says that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. This is polytheism or the worship of more than one God. But the Bible makes it clear that the Lord our God is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Then there is the correct view of the Trinity.

The Lord our God exists as one God, but He exists as three distinct persons (i.e. The Father, the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost). All three persons co-existed as one God for all eternity. Also, in the Trinity, the Father and the Son and can dwell within one another despite their distinctiveness as persons within the Godhead, too. For Jesus said He dwells in the Father and the Father dwells in Him (John 14:10) (John 17:21).

Andrewn said:

Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JW are major non-Trinitarian groups. Are there other significant non-Trinitarians? Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

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Without the Person of Jesus, the Atonement is denied:

What Modalism is actually saying is that the separate person of Jesus Christ, the Son, is not real and never died on the cross because He does not exist. A separate Person does not exist. Only the Father (or Almighty God) exists and changes his face to turn into and look like the Son. This is a bold denial of God as a whole (since Jesus Christ is fully 100% God) and a denial of the work of the existing Second Person of God: the Son.

A human example would be that a Father agreed with his son that he would go out and pay an extremely expensive price for criminals to be free from their death sentences, and that his son would own them and they would be given to him; and he would show them compassion. After hearing about freedom from their judicial punishments of death because of the son’s payment, those criminals— instead of going with the son who bought them— believe the father is actually the one who bought them because he morphed into the mode of the son. Furthermore, the criminals claim that the son who actually bought them with his father’s urging does not even exist. They believe only the father exists and shifts into a different looking mode to become his own son, but is still the exact same person as there is not a son person and a father person, but only a father person who shifts modes. He just changed into the son. So the son who actually bought them with an extremely expensive price is denied as well as his hard work earning the payment for them to be free. This is a major insult to the son. But in reality the only way they could be free is if they understand that the son is actually a real person who exists and is not the father, and they follow him. Because since these criminals deny the son who bought them, and instead believe his father shape shifted into a son to become him, that real son that exists separately from his father will deny them in the presence of his father.

Modalism denies Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that if you deny Jesus Christ (being the Son of God, a separate Person from the Father, and separate from the Person of the Holy Spirit), He will deny you in the presence of God the Father. Jesus Christ Himself said, “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and that of the Father and the holy angels” (Luke 9:26). Jesus in Luke 12:9 also said, “…but whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.” So it is obvious that Modalism denies Christ despite the fact they try to claim they promote Jesus and follow Him. The Oneness “Jesus” is a “false Jesus” that does not exist and profanes, and blasphemies the true living, eternal, Son of God. It misplaces credit for propitiation onto the Father, when propitiation was strictly something the Son did. Romans 3:24 says that the redemption is in Christ Jesus, and in verse 25 it says, “God presented Him as the propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over sins previously committed.” It does not say that the Father was the propitiation. 1 John 2:2 explicitly states that Jesus Christ alone was the propitiation: “He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.” Since the Trinity is true, Modalism is denying God by claiming the Person of the Son does not exist. 1 John 2:23 expresses it simply, “No one who denies the Son can have the Father…” All repentant sinners become Christians who receive salvation. Christians are saved because they call on the name of the Lord and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. If someone repents to a false God that does not exist, one that denies the existence of the Person of the Son, they will not have salvation. Romans 10:9 says, “…if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”If a person claims this verse for a Modalistic Jesus, one that denies the Person of the Son, there is no power for salvation.

Modalism denies the Father’s ability to be a righteous judge:

Not only is Modalism an offense to the Person of the Son, but it offends the Person of the Father by ignoring His sacrificial giving of His one and only Son, the Son which He loves so much in relation within the Godhead; and it claims instead that He is the one who died and gave the propitiation for sins. Ignoring the extreme sacrifice the Father allowed to happen to His precious Son is an extreme insult to the love of the Father for sinners that He would allow His own Son (who was willing) to be punished in their place; and not only that, but that the Father is the one who gave out all of the crushing punishment to His own Son. Isaiah 54:6says, “The LORD has punished Him for the iniquity of us all.” Also, 2 Corinthians 5:21 states, “He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”Modalism denies God this glory and insults the Father. The Father remained pure and untouched by sin and is the righteous judge that gave out His wrath onto Christ. If Modalism is true it means that God existing in one person, being the Father would have became sinful and then killed himself. There would be no righteous judge untouched by sin able to pour out the wrath. It would be the Father becoming sin on His own and then punishing Himself. This idea cancels out a pure and holy Person who is able to remain innocent who can judge sin. In reality, since the Trinity is what is true, there is a righteous and clean judge untouched by sin that was able to pour out His wrath onto Jesus Christ (who was made sin willingly by the Father) and complete the ability for salvation to be completed. To deny the Father’s giving of His real eternally existing Son is blasphemy, and it cancels out the ability for salvation. Such a person as the “god father” of Modalism does not exist and it profanes the true Father’s work. Therefore, Modalism completely denies the true Father.

1 John 2:22 firmly states, “He is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.”

Of course the most basic reason why Modalism cancels out salvation is that if the Trinity is true, it means that God is Three-As-One and anything other than a triune God does not exist. Worshiping a God that does not exist is idolatry. Modalism is a false religion and God commands that there should never be any other gods worshiped besides Him (Exodus 20:3). There is no forgiveness of sins if a person puts their trust into a false god. Just because the name of a false God uses the same titles and names as the true, triune God of Scripture does not mean it is the same God. Matthew 24:24 claims there will be false Christ’s coming, and 1 Corinthians 11:4 says that people can preach a different Jesus and a different spirit and Christians should not put up with it.

The modalistic god denies the Eternal Person of the Son, thus meaning they deny the true God and profane His atonement.

Article Source:
Why Modalism Is A Damnable Heresy