Poll - "world" meaning in Matthew 24:3

meaning of "world" in Matthew 24:3 ?

  • End of an age, era. And destruction of the planet at the same time.

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Douggg

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What is implied for "world" in the context of Matthew 24:3 ?

I have been reading through some posts in another thread which there is a difference of opinion. Please cast your vote. And give your rationale if you want to do so.

I am holding my vote, until a number of others have voted, so as not to influence anyone.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Matt. 24:3 While Jesus was seated on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, and said, “Tell us, when will this [destruction of the temple] take place, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end (completion, consummation) of the age?” (AMP)
 
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DavidPT

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What is implied for "world" in the context of Matthew 24:3 ?

I have been reading through some posts in another thread which there is a difference of opinion. Please cast your vote. And give your rationale if you want to do so.

I am holding my vote, until a number of others have voted, so as not to influence anyone.


Before I can try and vote in this poll, I first need to know what is being meant by the destruction of the planet in the poll? Does it mean a brand new planet replaces it after it's destruction?
 
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DavidPT

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Matt. 24:3 While Jesus was seated on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, and said, “Tell us, when will this [destruction of the temple] take place, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end (completion, consummation) of the age?” (AMP)


Consummation of what age, though? Preterists, for example, appear to take it to mean a consummation of an age during the first century. But is that what Jesus was meaning, that is the question? As to me I agree with Preterists that it the consummation of an age. I don't agree it's the age they take it to mean. I take it to mean the consummation of this present age when Christ returns.
 
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Oberamagau

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The word aiōn isn't difficult but the KJV has rendered it poorly as 'world.' It's an era or an age and is sometimes translated 'eternal or evermore." It typically doesn't reflect a 'short' period of time, Vines says "signifies a period of indefinite duration, or time viewed in relation to what takes place in the period." The word is often used in an end-time apocalyptic context. If you want to see the most perverted view of the word 'aion' just look at the Preterist view.

Vines -
"signifies a period of indefinite duration, or time viewed in relation to what takes place in the period."

The word 'KOSMOS' is often translated 'world' but the two words are very different. In Mathew 12 we see the difference ...
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, (aion -G165 age from Christ 1st advent to his second advent) neither in the world to come = The next age - the Millennial reign.
 
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parousia70

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If it's the end of the age, The next question is, what age?

This is where the futurist position stumbles when they say its the end of the Christian Age, for the Christian age had not yet begun, nor did the apostles even know it was coming, when they asked about it's end.

Futurism has the cart before the horse on this one...

There is no way the apostles could have been asking Jesus about "the end" of an age they had no idea was even coming, and had not even begun yet when they were asking.
 
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DavidPT

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There is no way the apostles could have been asking Jesus about "the end" of an age they had no idea was even coming, and had not even begun yet when they were asking.


It seems to me, that when Jesus and His disciples left the temple that particular day in question, the following would be when they initially entered into it that particular day in question.

Matthew 21:23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Mark 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,


Luke 20:1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

And if so, that would seem to indicate He was also teaching the following on that particular day in the temple.

Luke 20:33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

How can verse 35 and 36 not involve His coming again in the end of this age in order to make this resurrection from the dead possible?

Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The text indicates He is to sit thou on the Father's right hand, till the Father makes Jesus' enemies Jesus' footstool. Obviously this is not meaning something that will be ongoing for forever and ever, the fact there is a 'till' in the text. How can this not eventually involve His coming, thus resulting in the end of this present age once He comes again?
 
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Douggg

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Before I can try and vote in this poll, I first need to know what is being meant by the destruction of the planet in the poll? Does it mean a brand new planet replaces it after it's destruction?
Yes, if by new planet, you mean a new earth. Good question, btw.
 
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Oberamagau

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If it's the end of the age, The next question is, what age?

There is no way the apostles could have been asking Jesus about "the end" of an age they had no idea was even coming, and had not even begun yet when they were asking.
Only a Preterist or Historicist could come up such flimsy questions. John the Divine had no idea what was coming when he wrote what he saw. The disciples got a good explanation in Mathew 24 about the 'end of the age' which culminates in the PAROUSIA. You know the ages, you're just being uncommunicative.

If the apostles 'couldn't have been asking Jesus' about "the end of an age" - then why did they ask about the signs preceding Jesus' PAROUSIA - followed by the question "the signs of the consummation of the age?"

What will be the sign of thy coming? - Jesus gave them dozens of signs in the chapter. Are you able to explain how verses 3-33 ever passed in 70 AD or any other time in the past?

"What will be the sign of the end of the world." (consummation of the age)

"What is the sign of thy parousia and the consummation of the age?"
 
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parousia70

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Only a Preterist or Historicist could come up such flimsy questions. John the Divine had no idea what was coming when he wrote what he saw. The disciples got a good explanation in Mathew 24 about the 'end of the age' which culminates in the PAROUSIA. You know the ages, you're just being uncommunicative.

I'll refrain leveling a similar personal attack toward you (ie; Only a futurist could come up with something so flimsy and deliberately uncommunicative), and focus instead on the substance of the post. It would be something special if you could find a way to return the favor moving forward. :)

If the apostles 'couldn't have been asking Jesus' about "the end of an age" - then why did they ask about the signs preceding Jesus' PAROUSIA - followed by the question "the signs of the consummation of the age?"

They were asking about the end of the age... just not the end of the everlasting new covenant age that had yet to be inaugurated... Which was my entire point.
They were asking about the end of the mosaic age, Levitical priesthood, temple and sacrificial system that had been extant for 1500 years but was, according to Jesus, "about to come" to a fiery end, in their generation, which Jesus said would be marked by the temple's pending destruction at the "Coming of the Lord of the vineyard, to miserably destroy the wicked vinedressers" (Matthew 21:40-45).

Such is in harmony with many other scriptures that testify the impending historic change of the covenantal ages (Heb 8:13/2 Cor 3:6-11) was to be marked by the Temple's profanation/desecration (2 Thess 2:3-4/Matt 23:33-24:2) and God's wrath on their disobedient Jewish countrymen (1 Thess 2:15-16/Mt 23:33-38/Acts 3:22-24).

What will be the sign of thy coming? - Jesus gave them dozens of signs in the chapter. Are you able to explain how verses 3-33 ever passed in 70 AD or any other time in the past?
Absolutely.
I'm so glad you asked :)

Matt 24:1-3 -- Christ announces that the second Temple, God's dwelling place among mankind, would soon be destroyed and earthly Jerusalem made desolate. The Jewish followers of Christ, as citizens of the Old Covenant dispensation, inquire as to the future of their nation, having been informed that the end of that age would be accompanied by the annihilation of the entire Mosaic Temple system and state. These disasters came to pass in accordance with the prophecies of Christ: The Jews launched the Great Revolt in AD 66 under messianic king Menahem (Josephus, Wars of the Jews, 2:17) and set fire to the Holy Temple at the desolation of Jerusalem at AD 70 (Josephus, Wars, 6:2:9; 6:3:5; 6:4:5; 6:6:2). At the end of this tribulation, Roman armies took apart the Jerusalem Temple stone-by-stone to get the gold that had melted down between the cracks (during the fires) and to remove the headquarters of the Jewish revolt. The Temple vessels and utensils were then plundered and taken to Rome by General Titus (Josephus, Wars, 7:5:5-7).

Matt 24:4 -- Shaken by the prospect of the destruction of their glorious Temple, and knowing from the destruction of Solomon's Temple 600 years prior that such calamities mark God's visitation to them (Jer 7:1-20,29-34), the apostles ask, "When will these things be?" and "What sign signifies thy coming at end of the age?" The questioning highlights the fact that the Judgement coming of Christ and the end of the Old Testamental age would be discerned and comprehended in the passing of calamitous signs.

Matt 24:4-5 -- Christ predicts the intensification of false messianic movements within Israel and around the empire. First-century examples: Dositheus the Samaritan (Origen: Contra Celsum, VI, ii; Hom. xxv in Lucam; Contra Celsum, I, lvii), Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) who was deified in Rome, Theudas (Acts 5:36-37), Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37), Herod Agrippa (Acts 12:20-23), Menahem (Josephus: War of the Jews; 2.433-450). Under the government of Felix, deceivers rose up daily in Judea and persuaded the people to follow them into the wilderness, assuring them that they should behold conspicuous signs and wonders performed by the Almighty. (Felix, from time to time, apprehended many and put them to death.) During this period (52-58 AD) arose a celebrated Egyptian deceiver (Acts 21:38), who collected thirty-thousand followers and persuaded them to accompany him to the Mount of Olives, telling them that from there they would see the walls of Jerusalem fall down at his command as a prelude to the capture of the Roman garrison and their obtaining the sovereignty of the city (Josephus: War of the Jews, 2.259-263; Antiquities of the Jews 20.169-171). Such messiahs and magicians were often as powerful in the display of miracles as were the apostles (see: Simon of Samaria in Acts 8:9-11; Apollonius of Tyana). Partial list of first-century false messiahs: Judas, son of Hezekiah (4 BC); Simon of Peraea (4 BC); Athronges, the shepherd (4 BC); Judas, the Galilean (6 AD); the Samaritan prophet (36 AD); King Herod Agrippa (44 AD); Theudas (? AD); the Egyptian prophet (52-58 AD); anonymous prophet (59 AD); Menahem, the son of Judas the Galilean (66 AD); John of Gischala (67-70 AD); Vespasian (67 AD); Simon bar Giora (69-70 AD). Related link: Livius.org - Messiah Overview.

Matt 24:6-8 -- Jesus promises His apostles that they will have famines, wars and rumors concerning wars. This prophecy had special significance during that period of the great Pax Romana ("Roman Peace"), when the outbreak of these wars transpired: Claudius' Roman war with Britain/East Anglia; at least three Jewish insurrections against Rome prior to the 60s AD (one violently put down by Cuspius Fadus); the Jewish/Alexandrian revolt upon Caligula's death; Claudius declares martial law in Palestine after the Jewish insurrection at the death of Agrippa I; the Germanic tribes in present-day Belgium and Germany made perpetual trouble for the legions throughout the reign; a smoldering Balkan war was in continuous progress. As these conflagrations escalated, Rome started its own civil wars in 68-70 that nearly toppled the empire. As Tacitus writes, "Four princes [Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Domitian] killed by the sword; three civil wars, several foreign wars; and mostly raging at the same time. Favorable events in the East [the subjection of the Jews], unfortunate ones in the West. Illyria disturbed, Gaul uneasy; Britain conquered and soon relinquished; the nations of Sarmatia and Suevia rising against us; the Parthians excited by the deception of a pseudo-Nero." For more on wars of this time and false prophets, see: Josephus: Antiquities, 20:5:1-4; 20:8:5-10; Wars, 2:10:1; 2:13:4-7; 6:5:2. As for famines, Acts 11:28 records a worldwide famine. Josephus reports famines in Jerusalem in the 60s AD which killed hundreds of thousands during the Jewish War (AD 66-70). There were accounts of infanticide and cannibalism (as foretold in Deuteronomy 28:53,57) -- Jewish women cooked and ate their babies (Josephus; Wars 6:3:3-4; Wars 5:1:4). Concerning earthquakes, Seneca writes: "How often have cities in Asia, how often in Achaia, been laid low by a single shock of earthquake! How many towns in Smyrna, how many in Macedonia, have been swallowed up! How often has Paphos collapsed! Not infrequently are tidings brought to us of the utter destruction of entire cities" (Seneca Ad Lucilium Epistulae Morales, trans. Richard M. Gummere, vol. 2, 437). Josephus says of Jerusalem, "the city was besieged on both sides...there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming" (Wars, 4:4:5).

Matt 24:9-10 -- Jesus foretells the persecution of the early church by the Jews and later by Nero, who falsely blamed the Christian sect for burning up to half of Rome. This persecution went on the entire AD 30-66 by the Jews, and Nero's persecution was precisely 3.5 years, from 64-68AD. It is essential to note that Matthew 24:9-13 is exactly parallel to Matthew 10:16-23, a passage which all scholars assign to a first-century fulfillment. Jesus predicts the civil wars of the Jews (Matt 24:10; 10:21), and the great Jewish civil war occurred in 66-69AD (Josephus; Wars, 2:17:1-10; 2:18:1-11; 4:6:2-3; 5:1:2-5; 5:6:1; 5:13:6; 6:2:1).

Matt 24:11-13 -- Jesus teaches more on false prophets, emphasizing their key role in the delusion of the nation, as per 2 Thess 2:7-11 (see also: Antiquities, 20:8:6; Wars, 6:5:2). Josephus says false prophets were related to the messianic movement of the seditious Zealots, who promised a redemption for the Jewish rebels at the Temple but were met with total destruction at the hand of the Romans. In Matthew 24:13 Jesus holds out hope for the believers who might endure to the end. (Verses 24:12-13 are parallel to Matthew 10:21-22.)

Matt 24:14 -- A key sign of the end of the Jewish age was the gospel's rapid proclamation to the whole world (Greek: "oikoumene" = "inhabited earth;" "Roman Empire" -- Strong's # 3625). This sign was rapidly fulfilled in the apostles' generation, especially through Paul's ministry (Col 1:23, Col 1:5-6, Romans 10:14-18, Romans 16:26, 1 Tim 3:16; Acts 13:47). The "whole world" spoken of in the Bible pertained to the extent of the Roman Empire (compare the geographic boundaries of the "whole world" in Matt 24:14 with that of the same "whole world" in Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, Acts 2:5, Romans 1:8 and and 2 Chronicles 36:23). The use of the Greek word "oikoumene" (Strong's #3625) in Matt 24:14 speaks of the Roman Empire -- the "whole world" ("oikoumene") of the scriptures was contextually centered in the area of the Ancient Roman Empire (see: Luke 2:1). Early Church fathers such as Clement of Rome, Eusebius, and Chrysostom said Matthew 24:14 as fulfilled in the apostles' generation. The immediate and rapid spread of the Christian faith throughout the entire Empire signified a covenantal shift to a new dispensation wherein all nations participate equally in the blessing of Abraham through faith (Gen 12:1-3; Gal 3:6-9,14,29).

Matt 24:15-20 -- Christ tells of His nation's Great Tribulation (cf. Luke 21:20-23). The famous historic account of the exodus of the Jerusalem Church in AD 66-67 is recorded by Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, iii.v.). The Judean remnant saw the armies of Cestius Gallus in 66AD surrounding Jerusalem (and Vespasian's shortly thereafter; compare to the parallel account in Luke 21:20-24). At the same time, The Temple was captured by the Jewish Zealots as Paul had foretold (2 Thess 2:4-7). Messiah-King Menahem and the Zealots turned the temple into a military outpost, defiled it with murderous blood, and made evil of their own high priest while launching the Great Revolt. During this time, the daily sacrifices offered to Rome were ended, which was a declaration of war against the Roman Empire. These events signaled the faithful Jewish remnant to flee according to our Lord's commands to them in Matthew 24:16-20 and Luke 21:20:23. Just after they escaped the city, the Zealots seized the city, guarded the gates, and prevented all escape. Eusebius writes, "But the members of the Church in Jerusalem, having been commanded before the war in accordance with a certain oracle given by revelation to the men of repute there to depart from Jerusalem and to inhabit a certain city of Peraea called Pella, all the believers in Christ in Jerusalem went thither; and when now the saints had abandoned both the royal metropolis itself and the whole land of Judaea, the vengeance of God finally overtook the lawless persecutors of Christ and His apostles." At the end of the great tribulation the Romans made sacrifices to their standards at the Temple (Josephus, Wars, 4:5:1; 5:1:2,3,5).
Continued....
 
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parousia70

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Continuing.....

Matt 24:21-24 -- Jesus tells more about Israel's Great Tribulation (also: Luke 21:20-24; Josephus, Wars of the Jews, entire). The Roman Jewish war is the documented history of the Great Tribulation. Josephus declares that the war with the Romans was "the greatest of all ever heard of" (see: Matthew 24:21). Josephus writes, "the war which the Jews made with the Romans hath been the greatest of all those, not only that have been in our times, but, in a manner, of those that were ever heard of" (Wars of the Jews, preface, section 1; Wars, 5:10:5). Jesus calls this time the "Days of Vengeance" (Luke 21:20-22; Isaiah 61:2/Jer 46:10; Matt 23:31-38; Luke 19:40-44; Matt 21:40-22:7), and "wrath and distress upon this people" (Luke 21:23; see also Josephus, Wars, 2:10:1; 2:22:1; 6:3:3-4; 6:9:2-4; 7:1:1). Lakes of blood and fires (Wars, 2:18: 4:5:1; 5:1:2-5; 6:4:6; 6:5:1,2; 6:8:5). Jerusalem divided into three (Rev 16:19; see also Wars, 5:1:1,4). Genealogical records destroyed (Wars, 6:6:3; 6:9:1). God took the Kingdom away from them (Matt 21:40-45; see also Josephus, Wars, 6:8:4:; 6:9:1,4). Jerusalem called "That Great City" and "Sodom" (Rev 11:8; Rev 18:21-24; see also Josephus, Wars, 5:10:5; 5:13:6; 7:8:7). Jews sold into slavery (Luke 21:24; see also Josephus, Wars, preface, section 11; Wars 6:8:2; 6:9:2-4). City of Jerusalem is leveled (Matt 24:2 and Luke 19:40-44; see also Josephus, Wars, 7:1:1; 7:8:7). Jesus warns his generation: "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of gehenna? Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate (Matt 23:33-38).

Matt 24:25 -- Jesus explicitly tells the apostles that these dire events will be experienced by them (as also in Matt 24:33-34). They will be the generation to see these things Jesus is describing come to pass (not some distant future generation). By comparing Matt 24:25 with similar statements in John 14:28, John 13:19 and John 16:4, we see that they all signal events in the apostles' near future. Christ always told his apostles things they would need to know beforehand, that it could be to their benefit when the things came to pass before their eyes.

Matt 24:26-28 -- Jesus forewarns them not to follow false messianic movements in the desert or in the Temple chambers, which had precise first-century relevance for them (Antiquities of the Jews, 20:8:6; Wars, 6:5:2). The desolation is like lightning over the whole land from east to west, and where the carcasses are strewn, there will be the Roman Eagles (i.e, the infamous Eagle Ensigns of the Roman armies that were planted all over Jerusalem during the Roman Jewish war). The Roman eagle ensigns served as a symbol of the Jews' defeat at the hand of their enemies. Most commentators believe this war and passage also was the fulfillment of Moses' predictions in Deuteronomy 28:49 and the verses following. All this came to pass in 66-70AD (see also: Josephus, Wars, 4:5:1; 5:1:2,3,5).

Matt 24:29-31 -- Christ speaks of the end signs. This passage hinges upon the apocalyptic language of the great prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, David, etc. in exactly the same way they used such language for God's judgments against nations and individuals in their own times. Compare Christ's words with God's coming to O.T. Babylon in 539BC (Isa 13:10-13, 13:1, and 13:17), God's coming to Edom in 703BC (Isa 34:3-5), God's coming to Egypt in 572BC (Ez 32:7-11), God's coming to Nineveh in 612BC (Nahum 1). So, in like manner, Jesus Christ is now also seen as coming in that same glory of the Father (cf. Matt 16:27; John 17:5). Jesus came to first-century Israel and demolished it in the same glory as the Father's cloud-comings in the OT era (cf. Isaiah 19:1-2). Thus, this passage speaks of Christ's full equality and oneness with Jehovah. This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. Many cosmic signs were also witnessed in that period: the angels, voices, and glorious brightness of God are witnessed at the temple and around Jerusalem as recorded in Josephus, Tacitus, and the Midrash (Josephus, Wars, 6:5:3; 2:22:1-2; 4:4:5; 6:5:2-3; Tacitus, Histories, v. 13; Midrash, Lam 2:11). All torah-observing, Messiah-rejecting Jews were gathered into Jerusalem from all over the world at Passover Feast in 67AD and were shut in by the Zealot and Roman armies. Now, locked in the giant furnace of the city, millions were destroyed (see: Matt 13:40-43, Luke 19:40-44, Matt 23:33-38, Luke 23:28-31; Matt 21:40-45). It is no surprise that rabbis today call 70AD the "end of biblical Judaism." Indeed, the faithful and newly consummated Church-bride was gathered and spared God's desolations and wrath. The Church-nation of Christ, thus fully built and established, is never to be destroyed. The Church becomes the eternal Temple and Priesthood of God (2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:9). Christianity emerges distinct from Judaism and becomes the universal and one true Faith of the Living God and the Holy Nation. Christ's followers were destined to occupy all nations to gather the elect from all peoples into Abraham's blessing (Gal 3:7-9.14,16,26-29; Gen 12:1-3). The teachings and prophecies of Christ and the apostles are fully and historically vindicated by this historic destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 66-70.

Matt 24:32-33 -- Jesus gives a parable about trees and their seasons (Luke 21:29-31). The shooting forth of leaves signals that summer is now near at hand. Jesus applies this natural phenomenon to his apostles and the season of the end of the age: "So likewise you too [the apostles], when you shall see all these things know that it is near, even at the door" (cf. James 5:8-9; Rev 3:20). In Luke's account, Christ's promise to the apostles is as follows: "So also you, when you see these things come to pass know that the kingdom of God is near at hand" (Lk 21:31).

Matt 24:33-34 -- In this passage, the climax of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus promises his apostles that they will see all these signs come to pass in their generation: "So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
 
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Oberamagau

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Instead of inundating me with your files, why not take issues that pertain to the OP - one issue at a time. So being this is about an 'age' - In your previous post I responded with the word flimsy because you first said,
"There is no way the apostles could have been asking Jesus about "the end" of an age they had no idea was even coming, and had not even begun yet when they were asking."
I must have read that quote 6 times and it's completely illogical to me. Most people ask questions because they have no idea about something. They asked about the signs that preceded Christ return - the PAROUSIA which IS the 'consummation of the age'. Their question was precise because they had over an hour to discuss it on their way over to the Mount of Olives.

You said,
"They were asking about the end of the mosaic age, Levitical priesthood, temple and sacrificial system that had been extant for 1500 years but was, according to Jesus, "about to come" to a fiery end, in their generation, which Jesus said would be marked by the temple's pending destruction at the "Coming of the Lord of the vineyard, to miserably destroy the wicked vinedressers." (Matthew 21:40-45)."

Call it Judaic, Mosaic, or old covenant - that ended at the crucifixion/resurrection....not even a year after Christ prophesied in Mathew 24! The torn veil figuratively ended the old covenant, and the 'parousia' will close this age - the church age.
 
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DavidPT

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I must have read that quote 6 times and it's completely illogical to me. Most people ask questions because they have no idea about something. They asked about the signs that preceded Christ return - the PAROUSIA which IS the 'consummation of the age'. Their question was precise because they had over an hour to discuss it on their way over to the Mount of Olives.

To add to that, it's not like Jesus never discussed with His disciples things pertaining to the end of this present age prior to this discussion with them during the Discourse in question. Matthew 13:24-30 and Matthew 13:36-43 being one example. So, how can anyone claim the disciples were clueless about a coming in the end of this age is beyond me?

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

How can the end of this world not be meaning the same end of the world in Matthew 24:3?

Interestingly enough, end(sunteleia in the Greek) is only found in 6 verses in the NT according to my Strong's and that 4 of those include Matthew 24:3, Matthew 13:39, Matthew 13:40, and Matthew 13:49.

We also see basically the same phrase used in Hebrews 9:26.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Obviously 'in the end of the world' is not meaning the last day of this present age in this particular context. This seems to tell us that the end of the world has two components, so to speak. The end of the world initially began with the first coming and literally ends with the 2nd coming.
 
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parousia70

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Instead of inundating me with your files, why not take issues that pertain to the OP - one issue at a time.

Wait...So you didn't actually want me to answer your question when you asked:
"Are you able to explain how verses 3-33 ever passed in 70 AD or any other time in the past?"

You asked me to explain how 30 verses of scripture came to pass, if I was able... and now you're upset that I was actually able to do so, because it was "inundating"?

At least be honest about it. You asked me to explain HOW 30 verses of scripture were fulfilled in the apostles' generation. I did EXACTLY that. And now you brush it off without dealing with a single point because my answer is just "too much" for you to handle?
I would recommend next time that you don't ask such a broad volume question if you're not prepared to handle the volume of the answer.

Most people ask questions because they have no idea about something.
True, But if I have an old car, and I ask My mechanic how much life is left in it, (something I have NO IDEA ABOUT) I'm not asking him How much life is left in the new car that I don't yet Own, and Have no Idea I'm even getting...
Which is the exact analogy for what you are claiming is happening in these verses... Just replace car with "age" and Mechanic with "Jesus".

Call it Judaic, Mosaic, or old covenant - that ended at the crucifixion/resurrection....not even a year after Christ prophesied in Mathew 24! The torn veil figuratively ended the old covenant, and the 'parousia' will close this age - the church age.

I guess the writer of Hebrews must have Missed that memo then?
For He testifies that the Old Covenant was, decades after the cross, Still extant, but at that time Growing old and "ready to vanish ", not "had already vanished, as you claim:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

And someone forgot to tell Paul when he testified that, again decades AFTER the cross, there were still people "under the Law":

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (1 Corinthians 9:20)
 
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Oberamagau

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Wait...So you didn't actually want me to answer your question when you asked:
"Are you able to explain how verses 3-33 ever passed in 70 AD or any other time in the past?"

You asked me to explain how 30 verses of scripture came to pass, if I was able... and now you're upset that I was actually able to do so, because it was "inundating"?

At least be honest about it. You asked me to explain HOW 30 verses of scripture were fulfilled in the apostles' generation. I did EXACTLY that. And now you brush it off without dealing with a single point because my answer is just "too much" for you to handle?
I would recommend next time that you don't ask such a broad volume question if you're not prepared to handle the volume of the answer.


True, But if I have an old car, and I ask My mechanic how much life is left in it, (something I have NO IDEA ABOUT) I'm not asking him How much life is left in the new car that I don't yet Own, and Have no Idea I'm even getting...
Which is the exact analogy for what you are claiming is happening in these verses... Just replace car with "age" and Mechanic with "Jesus".



I guess the writer of Hebrews must have Missed that memo then?
For He testifies that the Old Covenant was, decades after the cross, Still extant, but at that time Growing old and "ready to vanish ", not "had already vanished, as you claim:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

And someone forgot to tell Paul when he testified that, again decades AFTER the cross, there were still people "under the Law":

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (1 Corinthians 9:20)
I asked a question but didn't expect you to hijack the thread. That's the problem with Preterism. It's an endless array of OPPOSITES and really doesn't belong in futurist threads. You could have answered YES or NO and gone elsewhere to discuss it. Instead you've gone off topic about the 'age' and posted two very long replies that I didn't read but only glanced over.
 
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Oberamagau

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And someone forgot to tell Paul when he testified that, again decades AFTER the cross, there were still people "under the Law":

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (1 Corinthians 9:20)
Why doesn't it surprise me that you can't get 1 Corinthians 9:20 correct? The only people who believe they are still under the law today are NOT Christians. They're either Jews or other Saturday Sabbath Keepers. You're really straining at this. I think it's because you don't dig into and fact check what your Preterist mentors are teaching you.
 
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summerville

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If it's the end of the age, The next question is, what age?

This is where the futurist position stumbles when they say its the end of the Christian Age, for the Christian age had not yet begun, nor did the apostles even know it was coming, when they asked about it's end.

Futurism has the cart before the horse on this one...

There is no way the apostles could have been asking Jesus about "the end" of an age they had no idea was even coming, and had not even begun yet when they were asking.

The end of the age meant the end of Temple Judaism.
 
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DavidPT

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The end of the age meant the end of Temple Judaism.

So why in the Discourse does Jesus then eventually go into endtime events, which also include His returning again in the end of this age, if in Matthew 24:3 He was meaning the end of Temple Judaism? If that were true He would be way off script, thus answering things the disciples never even inquired about to begin with.
 
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summerville

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So why in the Discourse does Jesus then eventually go into endtime events, which also include His returning again in the end of this age, if in Matthew 24:3 He was meaning the end of Temple Judaism? If that were true He would be way off script, thus answering things the disciples never even inquired about to begin with.

I would say go back and read the Sermon on the Mount for insight.
 
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Oberamagau

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So why in the Discourse does Jesus then eventually go into endtime events, which also include His returning again in the end of this age, if in Matthew 24:3 He was meaning the end of Temple Judaism? If that were true He would be way off script, thus answering things the disciples never even inquired about to begin with.
The Temples destruction wasn't the end of an age. It's better said that 33 to 70AD was the opening events of the Church age. The OT Law ended at the cross and todays world is still in the church age of grace.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
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