Seek the reality which has existed for eternity before the bible, Seek God.

Chapters 40-55 are known as "Deutero-Isaiah" and date from the time of the Israelites' exile in Babylon.

Isaiah 53 is the nation of Israel.

The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation.

Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

• “You are My servant, O Israel” (41:8)
• “You are My servant, Israel” (49:3)
• see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

timewerx said:

These revelations to Paul isn't really that different to the teachings of Christ. They simply delivered those messages differently.

Paul under the cultural filter and Jesus under the Parable filter.

We're not supposed to try understand Paul based on the filter he used. Most Christians isn't even aware that filter exists, even though Paul mentioned about it in detail in the Bible. There's even evidence of that filter in effect (apparent contradictions between the teachings of Paul).

Most Christians outright dismiss this without even looking. It took me many years being a Christian, reading the Bible to finally see it and I'm not even looking for it. But many Christians would make their minds about it in just one second.

We have been commanded to scrutinize and not be simple minded.

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Although i do not agree that the teachings are essentially the same i agree completely with your basic observation. I actually had something similar to what you say happen to me. When i became a christian i knew nothing at all ZERO so i just read myself. i was told to start in the new testament and not pay much attention to the old testament so i did why not. So overall i enjoy reading Matthew Mark and luke other than basic cognitive dissonance about the miracles the rest of it i was perfectly ok with. Jesus himself says over and over its about God.

Jesus says: Do not call me good master for there is only one good in heaven. I mean over and over he shys away from saying he is God but allows people to call him the son of man or son of God. Well that is basic scripture jews are by definition of scripture sons of God, children of God, i can source this all day long until your eyes bleed.
So yeah there were contradictions but lee strobel convinced me they should be in there it proves there real, so i just say ok i guess its all real.

Theeeen i start reading John, and it was like i was transported to a different universe. All of a sudden they are re writing Genesis to add jesus into it as an eternal god being, and i am like hold on not only does this not match what i just read but this is starting to sound like an egyptian myth or something. So i didnt read johnat first put it down because it disturbed my faith. Then as i continue in with Acts Paul is fighting with everybody about everything. He calls out one of the disciples to his face, James isnt it jesus's brother? How the hell does paul chastise james?! I am like [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is going on here this is making less sense.Then you get to pauls letters which are actual good evidence on my opinion because he does clearly say hi this is paul i am writing you this letter. None of the gospels have a known author, nor even claim to have eye witness testimoney. So already by definiton the gospels are Apocrypha ( by church definition not mine ) and the pauline letters are technically more authoritative by church definition. So i am like wait this is all getting weird, i thought this was about God, and jesus pointing to God? Paul is pointing to jeuss. Then i started checking the prophecies about jesus, mainly from pauls quotes and it was terrible. He completely destroys old testament quotes over and over, he quotes them entirely out of context, and most times does not even actually quote it accurately. Meanwhile when i read the old testament i had none of these problems whatsoever. The you take into account Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he can lie nor the son of man that he should repent.... wow read it in any translation.

You can think what you want but i studied the old testament and the new with ZERO religious knowledge going into it. I found problem after problem with the new but never could find serious problems in the old. I still have not had a single person follow through with a debate on messiah and i am up to about 30 people pastors included. Best wishes.

summerville said:

Chapters 40-55 are known as "Deutero-Isaiah" and date from the time of the Israelites' exile in Babylon.

Isaiah 53 is the nation of Israel.

The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation.

Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

• “You are My servant, O Israel” (41:8)
• “You are My servant, Israel” (49:3)
• see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

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Wow you obviously know your Bible God is so proud of you and so am i, what beautiful words.

Matthew86 said:

Theeeen i start reading John, and it was like i was transported to a different universe. All of a sudden they are re writing Genesis to add jesus into it as an eternal god being, and i am like hold on not only does this not match what i just read but this is starting to sound like an egyptian myth or something. So i didnt read johnat first put it down because it disturbed my faith. Then as i continue in with Acts Paul is fighting with everybody about everything. He calls out one of the disciples to his face, James isnt it jesus's brother? How the hell does paul chastise james?! I am like [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is going on here this is making less sense.Then you get to pauls letters which are actual good evidence on my opinion because he does clearly say hi this is paul i am writing you this letter. None of the gospels have a known author, nor even claim to have eye witness testimoney. So already by definiton the gospels are Apocrypha ( by church definition not mine ) and the pauline letters are technically more authoritative by church definition. So i am like wait this is all getting weird, i thought this was about God, and jesus pointing to God? Paul is pointing to jeuss. Then i started checking the prophecies about jesus, mainly from pauls quotes and it was terrible. He completely destroys old testament quotes over and over, he quotes them entirely out of context, and most times does not even actually quote it accurately. Meanwhile when i read the old testament i had none of these problems whatsoever. The you take into account Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he can lie nor the son of man that he should repent.... wow read it in any translation.

You can think what you want but i studied the old testament and the new with ZERO religious knowledge going into it. I found problem after problem with the new but never could find serious problems in the old. I still have not had a single person follow through with a debate on messiah and i am up to about 30 people pastors included. Best wishes.

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It would be in your best interest to avoid these discussions in the forums as you could be banned.

You're either confused or processed too much information than you need...

There are complicated prophecies that most Christians don't even bother with to interrupt their money-making and leisurely ways. It's their fate.

We're all walking towards the end of the cliff in a fog. To live, you must pay close attention to what you're walking on...

Have faith to seek the Truth, NOT have faith on what you already have is the truth!

timewerx said:

It would be in your best interest to avoid these discussions in the forums as you could be banned.

You're either confused or processed too much information than you need...

There are complicated prophecies that most Christians don't even bother with to interrupt their money-making and leisurely ways. It's their fate.

We're all walking towards the end of the cliff in a fog. To live, you must pay close attention to what you're walking on...

Have faith to seek the Truth, NOT have faith on what you already have is the truth!

Click to expand...

My only faith is in the original version of the scriptures which is written in Hebrew and has only 1 version. Why would anyone want to choose from 100,000 different translations thatsnumber 1.

I actually believe in following the 10 commandments because God said so and it makes sense to me. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Very simple then you add in not only jesus but satan being gods dude that is so far off base i do not understand what you are talking about.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should repent.

I am not saying the jesus teachings are not that, teachings, but God has been saving people since the beginning of time he didnt start 2000 years ago and the actual scriptures testidy to that. Please stop lumping these christian documents in with the actual bible. Mark is a pretty good book because its the oldest, but keep going away from the time of jesus and the same thing happens as always did to pagan religions.

I was in a hindu cult for a few months. These gurus in indian get thousands of followers performing miracles raising the dead all types of stuff, then they take "Samadhi" and go up to be with heaven to the grand court with jesus to intercede for all his followers. My personal experience dude you cant make this up. Then figured out that was 100% common in india Krishna said he was not God and to iolize him and as soon as he died the statues and temples went up to him.

I have researched heavily to prove the Hebrew scriptures have complete basis i fact. See the Hyksos in Egypt see the Pharoah Ahkenaten, then come back and spew your lies that just because we believe differently I MUST BE SILENCED. So be it but the words of God will never be silenced and they will follow everyone that reads this message and breaks the laws of God knowingly not out of ignorance but out of ego and haughtiness of spirit. If you want to shut me up PROVE I AM WRONG WITH THE SCRIPTURE.