IFA says Bernie Sanders is a threat to religious freedom in america...

Kaon · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
"The potential for Senator Bernie Sanders to be as a Presidential candidate for a major party, and also therefore to be elected President, is the most serious threat to religious freedom in our nation from the Executive branch we may have ever had. To be sure, I don’t know if God has a plan to continue advancing Bernie supernaturally in order to accomplish His purposes. Either way this is a major matter for prayer. I am surprised how many younger Christians are unaware of his religious views and are actively supporting him. Christians may disagree on policy but Bernie’s views on whether Christians can actively follow Jesus’ claims to exclusivity should be a matter that unites us all.

During a Senate confirmation hearing meeting in 2017, Senator Sanders said Russell Vought, a nominee for Deputy Director of the Office of Management and Budget, was unqualified because Mr. Vought believes Jesus was the only way to God. The Senator’s view was that because Mr. Vought thought Mohammad’s teachings were not an equal way to God, he should not serve in the U.S. government. Sanders’ closing statement is: “This nominee is not what this country is supposed to be about.” (Watch the interchange below.)

This is an extremely dangerous and unconstitutional opinion. The core faith tenet of Christianity is that Jesus is the way, truth, and life, and that no one gets to the Father but through Him (Jesus’ own words in John 14:6). Bernie Sanders basically declared all Christians who adhere to historical, biblical Christianity as unfit to serve in our government. Nothing could be more in opposition to the real life history of our nation’s founders and the grand majority of our nation’s previous governmental leaders than this. Bernie Sander’s views in this matter make him unlike any other major candidate for President in our nation’s history and potentially pose the most serious threat to our First Amendment rights this nation has ever seen from the Executive Branch. It is this one singular view above all others that makes him unfit for office as a Senator or President. He counts on his own right to espouse his openly socialist political policy positions. His desire to strip First Amendment rights of those he disagrees with actually threatens his own right to free speech regarding his socialist views."

above quote from IFA prayer alerts:
HOW BERNIE SANDERS THREATENS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN AMERICA | Intercessors for America

Every 4 years we consume and accept the BS from all facets... Even while we have problems of the form of defecation in office currently (in whatever decade you choose).

When will Americans think more of themselves than to be a vault of tax money and constituency for entities that wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire?

I'm guessing never since we fall for the same junk every four years.

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

summerville said:
I should know.. I lived in the ME for decades. Allah means God in Arabic, like Gott is God in German. Christians and Jews believe in the God of Abraham.. so do Muslims.

sorry I edited that post, here is the rest, I quoted some sources:

"

summerville said:
Muslims don't believe that only Muslims get eternal life.

Here's one verse.

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
Quran 2:62

"Surah 2:62 declares that “Those who believe (in the Qur’an), And those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), And the Christians and the Sabians,—Any who believe in God And the Last Day, And work righteousness, Shall have their reward With their Lord: on them Shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”

The Qur’an defines true believers as “those who believe in God and His Apostles” (4:152). The negative side of this is clearly given to us in 4:150–51, which proclaims that “those who deny God And His apostles, and (those Who) wish to separate God from His apostles, Saying: ‘We believe in some But reject others;’ And (those who) wish To take a course midway,—They are in truth (Equally) Unbelievers; And We have prepared For Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment.”

According to the testimony of the above verses, anyone who rejects the prophethood of Muhammad is an unbeliever and is destined for “a humiliating punishment.” This practically includes all the people of the world who are outside the fold of Islam. In addition to failing this criterion, Christians are also condemned to the “abode of Fire” due to their belief that “God is Christ the son Of Mary” (5:75). The only unpardonable sin in Islam is not acknowledging the Unity of God. Since Christians are guilty of this sin their condemnation is assured.7980

Other world religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism also fail other criteria, such as their lack of belief in one Supreme God and creator. Therefore, orthodox Islam is just as exclusive as any other major world religion."

Above quote from :
Answering Islam: the crescent in light of the cross- by norman geisler

summerville · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
sorry I edited that post, here is the rest, I quoted some sources:

"

"Surah 2:62 declares that “Those who believe (in the Qur’an), And those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), And the Christians and the Sabians,—Any who believe in God And the Last Day, And work righteousness, Shall have their reward With their Lord: on them Shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”

The Qur’an defines true believers as “those who believe in God and His Apostles” (4:152). The negative side of this is clearly given to us in 4:150–51, which proclaims that “those who deny God And His apostles, and (those Who) wish to separate God from His apostles, Saying: ‘We believe in some But reject others;’ And (those who) wish To take a course midway,—They are in truth (Equally) Unbelievers; And We have prepared For Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment.”

According to the testimony of the above verses, anyone who rejects the prophethood of Muhammad is an unbeliever and is destined for “a humiliating punishment.” This practically includes all the people of the world who are outside the fold of Islam. In addition to failing this criterion, Christians are also condemned to the “abode of Fire” due to their belief that “God is Christ the son Of Mary” (5:75). The only unpardonable sin in Islam is not acknowledging the Unity of God. Since Christians are guilty of this sin their condemnation is assured.7980

Other world religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism also fail other criteria, such as their lack of belief in one Supreme God and creator. Therefore, orthodox Islam is just as exclusive as any other major world religion."

Above quote from :
Answering Islam: the crescent in light of the cross- by norman geisler

Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians are first and foremost People of the Book.

Don't you find it odd that a good Christian like Norman Geisler would do a hatchet job on Islam?

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

summerville said:
Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians are first and foremost People of the Book.

Don't you find it odd that a good Christian like Norman Geisler would do a hatchet job on Islam?

so then you don't have any ability to refute what he said. It should be easy since it's a hatchet job.

summerville · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
so then you don't have any ability to refute what he said. It should be easy since it's a hatchet job.

Nope.. I can't be bothered.. You don't have a clue and nothing I say will change that.

Speedwell · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
why would I do that, I am a moderate. I am not even christian right. So I think it is you that are trying to equate the christian right with that particular candidate for office.

No, Bernie was and he was wrong about it. Vought is a Christian but so far as I can tell he is not a Christian Nationalist or strongly associated with the Christian Right.

But if you are not Christian Right, why did you deny the faith of millions of Christians who accept the theory of evolution, lumping them in with atheists?

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

summerville said:
Nope.. I can't be bothered.. You don't have a clue and nothing I say will change that.

I will look for other quotes later, for now here is one from

Here is another quote:

"
While Hinduism goes to one extreme—the deification of the self—Islam is at the other extreme. In Islam, the distance between God and humanity is so vast that the “I” never gets close to the “Him” in God. And because this distance between the two is impossible to cross, worship takes on an incredible clutter of activity, designed to bring the worshiper close. Repetition and submission take the place of the warmth of a relationship. One need only glimpse a Muslim at worship to see the difference. With all that he observes and all the rules he keeps, there is never a certainty of heaven for the common person in Islam. It is all in the “will of God,” they say. One’s destiny is left at the mercy of an unknown will. When relationship is swallowed up by rules, political power and enforcement become the means of containment.

One day a Muslim friend and I were out for the day together. I had forgotten that the Fast of Ramadan had just begun and suggested that we step into a restaurant for a cup of coffee. “I will spend years in jail for that cup of coffee,” he said, so of course I apologized for the suggestion. Then in low tones he admitted that his fast was restricted to public view and that he did not practice it in private. “I cannot work ten hours a day without eating,” he said. There was an awkward silence, and he muttered these words: “I don’t think God is the enforcer of these rules.” As anyone knows who has asked any Muslim, they will admit with a smile upon their faces that during the month of the Fast of Ramadan more food is sold than during any other month of the year. But its consumption takes place from dusk to dawn rather than from dawn to dusk. Legalism always breeds compliance over purpose.

In the Christian message, the God who is distinct and distant came close so that we who are weak may be made strong and may be drawn close in communion with God Himself, even as our identity is retained as we are. That simple act of communion encapsulated life’s purpose. The individual retains his individuality while dwelling in community. The physical retains its physicality but is transcended by the spiritual. The elements retain their distinctness but become bearers of truth that point beyond themselves to a spiritual fellowship that our spirits long for."

above quote from:
Jesus among other god's - Ravi Zacharius

Ophiolite · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
What evidence do you have that indicates the possibility of bernie NOT being prejudice?

I don't try to prove negatives. I've explained that before. I shan't be explaining it to you again. I believe another member made reference to a number of instances where Mr. Sanders approved Christians for government positions. That would strongly suggest he has no standard opposition to or prejudice against Christians.

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

Ophiolite said:
I don't try to prove negatives. I've explained that before. I shan't be explaining it to you again. I believe another member made reference to a number of instances where Mr. Sanders approved Christians for government positions. That would strongly suggest he has no standard opposition to or prejudice against Christians.

I already proved he was prejudiced now you HAVE to refute what was actually said and discussed. So what evidence do you have that bernie isn't prejudiced?

hedrick · Feb 27, 2020

Speedwell said:
He wasn't showing religious prejudice, he was incorrectly identifying Vought as a part of the threat to religious liberty posed by the Christian Right. He should apologize for his ignorance.

I don't think that's quite true. I believe Sanders understood exactly what Vought believed and what he had said. I think Sanders believes that claiming a group is reprobate and going to hell is inherently discriminatory. It's a position I can appreciate, though I don't agree with it.

Ophiolite · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I already proved he was prejudiced now you HAVE to refute what was actually said and discussed. So what evidence do you have that bernie isn't prejudiced?

1. You did not prove that Sanders is prejudiced.
2. I do not need to do anything and I certainly do not need to prove a negative.
3. And I've directed you to evidence provided by another that demonstrates Sanders is not prejudiced.
4. I shall be ignoring any other points on this topic from you unless you say something original.

Finally, you may not like the man. You may not like his politics. But he is a fellow human. Would you mind according him the respect of capitalising his name. (Preferably his surname, unless you actually happen to be on first name terms with him, in which case I suggest you take up all these points with him.)

Thank you again for your time.

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

Ophiolite said:
1. You did not prove that Sanders is prejudiced.
2. I do not need to do anything and I certainly do not need to prove a negative.
3. And I've directed you to evidence provided by another that demonstrates Sanders is not prejudiced.
4. I shall be ignoring any other points on this topic from you unless you say something original.

Finally, you may not like the man. You may not like his politics. But he is a fellow human. Would you mind according him the respect of capitalising his name. (Preferably his surname, unless you actually happen to be on first name terms with him, in which case I suggest you take up all these points with him.)

Thank you again for your time.

So then my proof is unchallenged. That's fine, thanks for the debate.

If you have directed me to evidence post the post number please.

Speedwell · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
So then my proof is unchallenged. That's fine, thanks for the debate.

If you have directed me to evidence post the post number please.

If you have proven anything, it is merely that Senator Sanders is prejudiced against some Christians, but not all. Senator Sanders was reacting to a rather unpleasant op-ed piece written by Vought for a magazine with an ugly editorial policy run by a right-wing religious extremist. Bernie should have kept his cool, but he has never expressed prejudice against Christians generally.

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

Speedwell said:
If you have proven anything, it is merely that Senator Sanders is prejudiced against some Christians, but not all. Senator Sanders was reacting to a rather unpleasant op-ed piece written by Vought for a magazine with an ugly editorial policy run by a right-wing religious extremist. Bernie should have kept his cool, but he has never expressed prejudice against Christians generally.

Thank you for at least recognizing the prejudiced behavior. We can't say that only are enemies are at fault but then those close to us or ourselves even are free to be prejudiced. I recognize prejudiced behavior everywhere. Trump for example saying illegals are criminals is prejudiced. But it's one thing to be prejudiced of non tax payers and quite another to be prejudiced of 30 to 60% of americans. But on a moral standing all prejudiced behavior should be corrected.

Speedwell · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Thank you for at least recognizing the prejudiced behavior. We can't say that only are enemies are at fault but then those close to us or ourselves even are free to be prejudiced. I recognize prejudiced behavior everywhere. Trump for example saying illegals are criminals is prejudiced. But it's one thing to be prejudiced of non tax payers and quite another to be prejudiced of 30 to 60% of americans. But on a moral standing all prejudiced behaving should be corrected.

30 to 60 percent? Where do you get those figures?

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

Speedwell said:
30 to 60 percent? Where do you get those figures?

Sorry it's actually higher but i didn't have the stat available, it's current 65% religiously affiliated or at least verbally affiliated with the christian faith but it is falling steadily every year. In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

Speedwell · Feb 27, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Sorry it's actually higher but i didn't have the stat available, it's current 65% religiously affiliated or at least verbally affiliated with the christian faith but it is falling steadily every year. In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

No, you'll have to use a smaller number. We've already established that Bernie is not prejudiced against Christians in general.

createdtoworship · Feb 27, 2020

Speedwell said:
No, you'll have to use a smaller number. We've already established that Bernie is not prejudiced against Christians in general.

How do you know? The statement that 'bernie is not prejudiced against Christians in general.' Is in fact a positive statement that needs evidence.

hedrick · Feb 28, 2020

The specific thing Sanders objected to was that all non Christians are condemned. I think less than half of Christians believe that as a blanket judgement.

createdtoworship · Feb 28, 2020

hedrick said:
The specific thing Sanders objected to was that all non Christians are condemned. I think less than half of Christians believe that as a blanket judgement.

I don't understand can you reword this please.

IFA says Bernie Sanders is a threat to religious freedom in america...

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