Were some stories in the Bible not literal history?

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

For Christians:

What stories in the Bible didn't literally happen as they were described?

e.g. the talking snake, the global Flood, the command in Deut 20 to kill all of the inhabitants of the cities in the promised land...

SkyWriting · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
For Christians:

What stories in the Bible didn't literally happen as they were described?

e.g. the talking snake, the global Flood, the command in Deut 20 to kill all of the inhabitants of the cities in the promised land...

Some are misunderstood. There are clues that Paradise was more spiritual than physical. And the story of Noah's flood was written by one of the people on the boat, not by a global explorer who checked to see if every mountain on the globe was properly submerged.

When he wrote that every mountain was covered, he meant every mountain he knew about in sight of the boat.

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

SkyWriting said:
....There are clues that Paradise was more spiritual than physical....

Do you mean Heaven or the Garden of Eden?

SkyWriting · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
Do you mean Heaven or the Garden of Eden?

Both seem to be in the same category. God was walking beside Adam in the Garden.....which we don't see happen often here on earth.

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

@SkyWriting
BTW what about the genealogies in Genesis 5 where people sometimes lived to 900+ years? Do you believe that really happened? If not, what does it mean?

SkyWriting · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
@SkyWriting
BTW what about the genealogies in Genesis 5 where people sometimes lived to 900+ years? Do you believe that really happened? If not, what does it mean?

It was common to consider the family name as an entity. Like a person.
Children were raised to carry on the family name in character, not just in the letters of one name tagged on the end as we do today.

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

SkyWriting said:
It was common to consider the family name as an entity. Like a person.
Children were raised to carry on the family name in character, not just in the letters of one name tagged on the end as we do today.

Are you saying there were gaps in the genealogies and no-one actually lived to 900+? BTW the genealogies in Luke 3 basically match Genesis 5 and I thought it wouldn't include identical gaps. Also after the Flood the ages gradually decrease until we get realistic ages.

InterestedAtheist · Feb 26, 2020

Interesting that some Christians believe that a worldwide flood is obviously just a story, but that a man coming back from the dead obviously happened.

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

InterestedAtheist said:
Interesting that some Christians believe that a worldwide flood is obviously just a story, but that a man coming back from the dead obviously happened.

The gospel message is core to what it means to be a Christian. The global Flood would leave geological and archaeological evidence. Books like "The Case for Christ" give a lot of evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.

Carl Emerson · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
For Christians:

What stories in the Bible didn't literally happen as they were described?

e.g. the talking snake, the global Flood, the command in Deut 20 to kill all of the inhabitants of the cities in the promised land...

Jesus referred to the global flood as an event.

Josephus the historian records that it was common to make a pilgrimage to the Ark in Jesus day.

Carl Emerson · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
@SkyWriting
BTW what about the genealogies in Genesis 5 where people sometimes lived to 900+ years? Do you believe that really happened? If not, what does it mean?

If you plot the ages of the Patriarchs on a graph it comes out like a growth curve.

This would suggest that time itself has changed in it's rate.

No one really knows though and it's better to just accept the matter on face value unless there is good reason to conclude otherwise.

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
If you plot the ages of the Patriarchs on a graph it comes out like a growth curve.

Actually before the flood the ages are pretty consistently around the age of 900 then only after the flood do they start steadily decreasing. A possible creationist explanation is that their DNA was originally perfect but after the flood the "vapour canopy" was no longer there and so mutations acculumated leading to a shorter lifespan.

This would suggest that time itself has changed in it's rate.

So you're saying that maybe 900 years was actually 90 years? Note that some of them have a son at the age of 65.... but that couldn't actually be 6.5 years....

Tom 1 · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
@SkyWriting
BTW what about the genealogies in Genesis 5 where people sometimes lived to 900+ years? Do you believe that really happened? If not, what does it mean?

It seems to be a reflection, toned down a bit maybe, of a common practice at the time. Kings in the Sumerian king list, for example, apparently ruled for 10s of thousands of years, in some cases.

InterestedAtheist · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
The global Flood would leave geological and archaeological evidence.

So what? Maybe God just worked a miracle and made this evidence vanish.

Carl Emerson · Feb 26, 2020

InterestedAtheist said:
So what? Maybe God just worked a miracle and made this evidence vanish.

While aware of the dangers of roaming near the mouth of a cynic here goes...

My late cousin Hadden Lowrey was an explorer and top photographer. He was asked to accompany Neil Armstrong on an expedition by helicopter to Ararat. He had researched writings from previous explorers and there were consistent claims of sightings at 14000 feet. They had to choose a time when the snow was at a high level, this is a rather rare weather event but they timed it right. I have seen the video footage of some of the remains in an ice wall. Most of the ark was carried down in a glacier and that is why white oak has been found a long way further down. Why this is not more well known I have no clue. I run the risk of sounding like a complete idiot but I cant deny what I have seen.

Carl Emerson · Feb 26, 2020

JohnClay said:
Actually before the flood the ages are pretty consistently around the age of 900 then only after the flood do they start steadily decreasing. A possible creationist explanation is that their DNA was originally perfect but after the flood the "vapour canopy" was no longer there and so mutations acculumated leading to a shorter lifespan.

So you're saying that maybe 900 years was actually 90 years? Note that some of them have a son at the age of 65.... but that couldn't actually be 6.5 years....

No it would not be a linear relationship - forgive me if I am wrong I haven't really given it much thought, just heard the theory second hand.

JohnClay · Feb 26, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
While aware of the dangers of roaming near the mouth of a cynic here goes...

My late cousin Hadden Lowrey was an explorer and top photographer. He was asked to accompany Neil Armstrong on an expedition by helicopter to Ararat. He had researched writings from previous explorers and there were consistent claims of sightings at 14000 feet. They had to choose a time when the snow was at a high level, this is a rather rare weather event but they timed it right. I have seen the video footage of some of the remains in an ice wall. Most of the ark was carried down in a glacier and that is why white oak has been found a long way further down. Why this is not more well known I have no clue. I run the risk of sounding like a complete idiot but I cant deny what I have seen.

Are you saying that Hadden Lowrey found the ark? I can't seem to find information about it on Google.

Carl Emerson · Feb 26, 2020

You wont, he was a quiet achiever, pretty humble, and felt that the time was not right to go big with it. He has passed away now, I spoke at his funeral.

Tinker Grey · Feb 26, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
While aware of the dangers of roaming near the mouth of a cynic here goes...

My late cousin Hadden Lowrey was an explorer and top photographer. He was asked to accompany Neil Armstrong on an expedition by helicopter to Ararat. He had researched writings from previous explorers and there were consistent claims of sightings at 14000 feet. They had to choose a time when the snow was at a high level, this is a rather rare weather event but they timed it right. I have seen the video footage of some of the remains in an ice wall. Most of the ark was carried down in a glacier and that is why white oak has been found a long way further down. Why this is not more well known I have no clue. I run the risk of sounding like a complete idiot but I cant deny what I have seen.

You must mean James Irwin. I can't find any evidence that Armstrong ever went.

Tinker Grey · Feb 26, 2020

Too, not even ICR claims the Irwin's expedition found anything: Colonel James Irwin: Creationist Astronaut

Irwin returned to Mount Ararat in 1983 and 1984 but found no compelling evidence of the Ark.8

Were some stories in the Bible not literal history?

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