Why did God create humans?

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?

OB

Sketcher · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?

OB

Scripture doesn't tell us why he created us, or why he loves us enough to give us a chance at redemption.

But, since God is fully sufficient within himself, it's not because he needed us.

Perhaps because God is love, he wanted to create lesser beings in his own image to love.

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

C

Sketcher said:
Scripture doesn't tell us why he created us, or why he loves us enough to give us a chance at redemption.

But, since God is fully sufficient within himself, it's not because he needed us.

Perhaps because God is love, he wanted to create lesser beings in his own image to love.

Thanks Sketcher. I appreciate that this is an educated guess on your part so I won't question your ideas at this stage. I'd like to see what others have to say.

OB

Tone · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?

OB

Good question, I had to ponder it while taking a shower. At first I wanted to reply "So that we may enjoy the wonders of the universe.", "To populate the universe.", and "For the awesomeness of it." Then I left off with a Scripture that came to mind:

Micah 6:8
" 8He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?"

So, I would say, to walk ("humbly") with Him. And I believe all the rest of those things I thought about are benefits that we get to enjoy as we humble ourselves before Him.

James 4
"10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you."

zippy2006 · Feb 25, 2020

27: The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator. (GS)

-Catechism of the Catholic Church

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

Its a bit quiet at the moment so I thought I'd put some thoughts together on your response.

Sketcher said:
Scripture doesn't tell us why he created us, or why he loves us enough to give us a chance at redemption.

Fair enough. I’ll leave the second part of the sentence since it will drag us off topic.

Sketcher said:
But, since God is fully sufficient within himself, it's not because he needed us.

So we can agree that God did not need humans?

Sketcher said:
Perhaps because God is love, he wanted to create lesser beings in his own image to love.

I have a few difficulties with this sentence

What does “God is love” mean?
Earlier you said that God is fully self-sufficient within himself. If this is correct how can God have ‘wants’?
Why would God want to create ‘lesser beings’?
In what sense are humans ‘the image of God’
Why would God want something to love? Again-the self sufficiency issue.

OB

Silmarien · Feb 25, 2020

The most interesting answer to this question that I'm familiar with ties it to Trinitarian theology more broadly. Being Triune, God is by nature communal and relational--a sort of outpouring of love from one person of the Godhead to the others. Creation can be seen as an overflowing of this love and an invitation to take part in divine relationship. Humans, having a significant degree of self-awareness and intelligence, can participate in that in a way that bacteria and tree moss cannot.

ewq1938 · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?

OB

God wanted to be loved by people who didn't have to love Him but did anyways.

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

Tone said:
Good question, I had to ponder it while taking a shower. At first I wanted to reply "So that we may enjoy the wonders of the universe.", "To populate the universe.", and "For the awesomeness of it." Then I left off with a Scripture that came to mind:

Micah 6:8
" 8He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?"

So, I would say, to walk ("humbly") with Him. And I believe all the rest of those things I thought about are benefits that we get to enjoy as we humble ourselves before Him.

James 4
"10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you."

Thanks Tone.
That shower sounds good. It's hot and very humid here at the moment.

What you've described are the benefits you see humans getting from being with God. My question was about why God created humans.

OB

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

Silmarien said:
The most interesting answer to this question that I'm familiar with ties it to Trinitarian theology more broadly. Being Triune, God is by nature communal and relational--a sort of outpouring of love from one person of the Godhead to the others. Creation can be seen as an overflowing of this love and an invitation to take part in divine relationship. Humans, having a significant degree of self-awareness and intelligence, can participate in that in a way that bacteria and tree moss cannot.

If God is by nature communal this suggests he needs a community. Does he not get enough company from communing with his three selves? Does he really need humans as a sort of blotting paper of love?
OB

Tone · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
What you've described are the benefits you see humans getting from being with God. My question was about why God created humans.

It is the nature of Love to give.

*To give.

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

zippy2006 said:
27: The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator. (GS)

-Catechism of the Catholic Church

Zippy
Your entire answer focuses on what humans get out of the God/human relationship.

My question was specifically about why God created humans.
OB

Silmarien · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
If God is by nature communal this suggests he needs a community. Does he not get enough company from communing with his three selves? Does he really need humans as a sort of blotting paper of love?
OB

I can't imagine that any theologian would say that he needs humans. The general idea is that he creates due to a surplus of love rather than a privation.

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

Tone said:
It is the nature of Love to give.

*To give.

God is allegedly self-sufficient. He shouldn't need to give. I also have no idea of what 'God is love' actually means.
(I've never been a Christian so I find a lot of these Christian semi-poetic truisms baffling. I suspect I'm not alone)

OB

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

Silmarien said:
I can't imagine that any theologian would say that he needs humans. The general idea is that he creates due to a surplus of love rather than a privation.

I find the concept of a 'surplus of love' mystifying. Is it possible we need a certain number of things to love so that our surplus a suitably absorbed?

Is this what God is like or are you just anthropomorphising?

I also don't understand why said surplus would prompt God to create humans. I also find it hard to accept that your omni-everything God would suffer from a surplus of anything.

OB

zippy2006 · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
Zippy
Your entire answer focuses on what humans get out of the God/human relationship.

My question was specifically about why God created humans.
OB

To quote the Catechism again, "For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence."

It is, as Silmarien explained, a sharing in the divine life through a gratuitous overflow of love. The human specifically seems to have been created as a steward and epitome of material creation who is called to share in God's own life and vision in a way that unintelligent creatures cannot.

Tone · Feb 25, 2020

Occams Barber said:
He shouldn't need to give

Who ever needs to give?

Occams Barber said:
'God is love'

What is love?

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

zippy2006 said:
To quote the Catechism again, "For

Your catechism says God created "through" love. What does this mean? It also says that if man exists it is because God created him. My question was "Why did God create him?"

zippy2006 said:
It is, as Silmarien explained, a sharing in the divine life through a gratuitous overflow of love. The human specifically seems to have been created as a steward and epitome of material creation who is called to share in God's own life and vision in a way that unintelligent creatures cannot.

All you've done here is shift the question back a couple of steps i.e.:

If humans are created as the steward/epitome of material creation then why was material creation created?
Why would God need humans to "share in Gods own life".

Wherever this goes it appears to continually bump into the twin issues of God's motive and God's self sufficiency.

OB

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

Tone said:
What is love?

Within the context of this thread I have no idea.
OB

Occams Barber · Feb 25, 2020

ewq1938 said:
God wanted to be loved by people who didn't have to love Him but did anyways.

God wanted to be loved?
I thought God was self-sufficient. How can something which is omni-everything "want" something.
OB

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