What Can Separate Us From The Love Of God?

FineLinen

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Universalism was defeated and condemned at the 5th Ecumenical Council in 553 A.D. / Thread


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Dear Jude that is exciting information indeed! Do you know what the O.P. of this thread is? Focus Jude focus!
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Those who love Him are the first fruits of His love & grace. Those who do not love Him yet are in for a glorious treat!
The many "made sinners" in Adam1 = the many "made righteous" in the Last Adam, the Master of at-one-ment.
Why do you continuously ignore the word "in" in this verse?
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
παντες/pantes/All[mankind] is "in Adam" because all mankind are literal descendants of Adam but all mankind are NOT in Christ. If there was no condition Paul would not have said "in Christ."

This verse does not say "by Christ shall all be made alive."
 
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royal priest

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HTacianas

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I'm going to side with FineLinen here because the Matthew 25 text to which you appeal is not spoken to and does not pertain to the same audience as the audience to whom and about which Paul is writing Romans 8. A false equivalency has been implied. It also appears there is some confusion or conflation between ecclesiology and soteriology that isn't applicable in a cogent or exegetical synthesis of the two passages.

By all means, tell us which audience Matthew 25 applies to.
 
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royal priest

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Dear Priest: please join us in singing>>>>


Question=

Whose will prevails? Wee wills or the Will of all wee wills?
According to that song, the Canaanites could not have stopped the Israelites no matter how much they willed it to happen.
Although they planned a resistance, God deliberately directed their wills to flee.
This means that even our own free wills are ultimately subject to the will of God which means we will not be separated from God which is a great relief because the only way any of those things on Paul's list could seperate us is if they could influence our wills to turn our backs on God.
Just as God used the hornets to chase the Canaanites away, He uses His all-encompassing providence to keep us attached to Himself in Christ.
 
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Tone

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NOTHING!

  1. Not death.

  2. Not life.

  3. Not angels.

  4. Not powers.

  5. Not the present/ not the future.

  6. No power.
ouden= NOTHING

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers

Romans 8:39
"39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Some translations say "nor any other created thing", which would include ourselves. Praise Him!

If we are in Messiah, we are in Messiah and nothing can change that. Amen.
 
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royal priest

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Romans 8:39
"39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Some translations say "nor any other created thing", which would include ourselves. Praise Him!

If we are in Messiah, we are in Messiah and nothing can change that. Amen.
I am my own worst enemy. Paul's list offers little hope to me if God does not save me from my own wretched self.
 
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FineLinen

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According to that song, the Canaanites could not have stopped the Israelites no matter how much they willed it to happen.
Although they planned a resistance, God deliberately directed their wills to flee.
This means that even our own free wills are ultimately subject to the will of God which means we will not be separated from God which is a great relief because the only way any of those things on Paul's list could seperate us is if they could influence our wills to turn our backs on God.
Just as God used the hornets to chase the Canaanites away, He uses His all-encompassing providence to keep us attached to Himself in Christ.

Dear Priest: The all encompassing Will of all wee wills prevails! Hornets, or anything else He uses in accomplishing His intention as the Supreme Author prevails.

"For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so He could have mercy on everyone."

What is the foundation of "free will"?
 
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FineLinen

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I am my own worst enemy. Paul's list offers little hope to me if God does not save me from my own wretched self.

Dear Priest: Rest your weary head on our Abba, every last one of our wretched lives are destined for complete re-adjustment!

Divine math=

The "many made sinners" = the "many made righteous."
 
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Curtis.Hilliker

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I’ve sincerely felt separated for about ten years now; knowing what it is to be filled and led by the Spirit of God for years and to somehow end up how I am now. I can certainly say I am separated in some way.
 
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FineLinen

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I’ve sincerely felt separated for about ten years now; knowing what it is to be filled and led by the Spirit of God for years and to somehow end up how I am now. I can certainly say I am separated in some way.

Dear Curtis: I know not the depth of your experience in Him to this particular moment. I know this, our glorious Father loves you. He always has, He always will. When hope seems hopeless He is there working to bring you deeper and deeper into Himself.

I do trust the peace that flows from Him will be yours!

“What I believe is so magnificent, so glorious, that it is beyond finite comprehension. To believe that the universe was created by a purposeful, benign Creator is one thing. To believe that this Creator took on human vesture, accepted death and mortality, was tempted, betrayed, broken, and all for love of us, defies reason. It is so wild that it terrifies some Christians who try to dogmatize their fear by lashing out at other Christians, because tidy Christianity with all answers given is easier than one which reaches out to the wild wonder of God’s love, a love we don’t even have to earn.” -Madeleine L’Engle-
 
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royal priest

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Dear Priest: The all encompassing Will of all wee wills prevails! Hornets, or anything else He uses in accomplishing His intention as the Supreme Author prevails.

"For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so He could have mercy on everyone."

What is the foundation of "free will"?
The foundation rests on the state of the soul. In innocency, man was free to choose that which is good or evil. In the state of sin, the will is bound in corruption and is adverse to good and freely chooses only that which is evil. In the state of salvation, Grace has delivered man from bondage to corruption this enabling him to choose that which is spiritually good though remaining corruption in this life does retain a degree of power over the redeemed will. In the state of glory and moral perfection, man is made to choose only that which best communicates his loving obedience to His Redeemer.
 
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royal priest

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Dear Priest: Rest your weary head on our Abba, every last one of our wretched lives are destined for complete re-adjustment!

Divine math=

The "many made sinners" = the "many made righteous."
1 Corinthians 6:9,11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God...And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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FineLinen

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The foundation rests on the state of the soul.

Dear Priest: The foundation is and always will be Him. It is He who is the Author and Finisher, and it is He upon whom I rest my weary soul. Any other foundation is crumbling before Him!
 
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Josheb

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By all means, tell us which audience Matthew 25 applies to.
When you ask questions to which you do not know the answer you prove you have no business telling the op nor anyone else what to think.

When you ask questions to which you already know the answer you inform everyone of your own disingenuousness.

When you do either in avoidance of the point first put to you it makes things worse, not better.

If you do not know the difference then you have no business posting in this op. If you know the answer and are playing games then you're not worth trading posts with. SO figure out why you're here and do the right thing.





There are no Christians in Matthew 25. Jesus is speaking to Jews in Matthew 25. This is self-evident in the text. In verses 31-40 Jesus is speaking about the sheep, those who inherited the kingdom that was prepared for them from the foundation of the world. In verses 41-46 he is speaking to and about the goats, those who are accursed, those for whom eternal fire has been prepared. This is plainly stated in the text and you should have read this, understood this, and not mucked up another's op with what amounts to unnecessary subterfuge.

In Romans 8 Paul is writing as a Christian to Christians about Christians. Or, to put it in terms used in Matthew 25:31-46, Paul is writing as a sheep to sheep about sheep, as one inheriting the kingdom to those inheriting the kingdom about those inheriting the kingdom.

So, HTacianas, instead of doing what you should have done when I cited the differing audiences, you've now got problems with both content and method. Unnecessarily so.
 
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HTacianas

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What if they want to come back to God? Is there any hope for them?

In the earliest days of Christianity there was not. There were debates early on, such as Tertullian, as to how far a person could go and not be allowed to return. It mostly centered on three sins seen as grievous enough for permanent excommunication. Those were Murder, Idolatry, and Adultery. Hippolytus of Rome got into a rift with Calixtus I who was Bishop of Rome at the time. Calixtus had granted absolution for those sins and Hippolytus condemned him for being too lenient. It caused a minor schism for a time.

The same thing came up again during the last Roman persecutions. The question was what to do with Christians, even clergy and Bishops, who denied the faith to avoid torture. It was decided to allow them to return after a period of penance.

A strict reading of the new testament has it that once a person falls away from the faith he cannot return. It is the longstanding Tradition of the Church that a person can. The Orthodox Church has a ceremony to receive an apostate back into the Church but I don't know how often it is conducted.
 
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HTacianas

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When you ask questions to which you do not know the answer you prove you have no business telling the op nor anyone else what to think.

When you ask questions to which you already know the answer you inform everyone of your own disingenuousness.

When you do either in avoidance of the point first put to you it makes things worse, not better.

If you do not know the difference then you have no business posting in this op. If you know the answer and are playing games then you're not worth trading posts with. SO figure out why you're here and do the right thing.





There are no Christians in Matthew 25. Jesus is speaking to Jews in Matthew 25. This is self-evident in the text. In verses 31-40 Jesus is speaking about the sheep, those who inherited the kingdom that was prepared for them from the foundation of the world. In verses 41-46 he is speaking to and about the goats, those who are accursed, those for whom eternal fire has been prepared. This is plainly stated in the text and you should have read this, understood this, and not mucked up another's op with what amounts to unnecessary subterfuge.

In Romans 8 Paul is writing as a Christian to Christians about Christians. Or, to put it in terms used in Matthew 25:31-46, Paul is writing as a sheep to sheep about sheep, as one inheriting the kingdom to those inheriting the kingdom about those inheriting the kingdom.

So, HTacianas, instead of doing what you should have done when I cited the differing audiences, you've now got problems with both content and method. Unnecessarily so.

Your explanation makes absolutely no sense at all. You are telling me that works alone lead to salvation. The righteous of Matthew 25 are those who had fed the hungry, etc. The unrighteous are those who did not. If you are attempting to make that point it's something we can discuss.
 
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