Exodus

redleghunter

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Nope ..never heard of them. My interest is not in denominations.. my interest is in history, archaeology and to a lesser extent linguistics. I made three two week trips to the Holy Lands with my Sunday school class before 1967.. and began to question the grandiose exaggerations of the OT. Of course I was quite young so I had already come up against the global flood, Exodus, Jonah etc.
You are a naturalistic Anglican?
 
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redleghunter

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FaithT

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Good keep sending those emails. You have the correct approach on where to get your answers from. Here? Even though this is a Christian site we get all kinds of error posted here. Read Exodus as if the Author is telling you the story. Because He is.

Now I’m not your pastor. But to answer your initial question. You probably came across the part during the plagues where the Egyptians themselves who witnessed the various plagues esteemed Moses as a great man.

Exodus 11: NASB

3The LORD gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians. Furthermore, the man Moses himself was greatly esteemed in the land of Egypt, both in the sight of Pharaoh’s servants and in the sight of the people. (NASB)

It is quite plausible some Egyptians needed the warnings of Moses when the plagues were announced.

Is the author writing an historical account or mythological like one poster said? Where did all their food and water come from? A miracle from God elsewhere?
 
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redleghunter

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Is the author writing an historical account or mythological like one poster said? Where did all their food and water come from? A miracle from God elsewhere?
God revealed Himself as YHWH to Moses and said Moses, the Israelites, Pharoah and the Egyptians would see might and great things.

So that tells me that God revealed His Sovereignty over the affairs of mankind and over His own creation in Exodus. The supernatural events of Exodus are to believed because the God we know is our Sovereign King and Savior.

There are elements within professed Christianity which deny God’s Sovereign supernatural intervention in His own creation and in the affairs of mankind.

Those who deny these OT miracles tend to not believe any miracles, that everything must have a materialistic or naturalistic explanation.

For example, there is an Anglican bishop named Shelby Spong. He does not believe the OT is reliable and believes it to be the uninspired oral traditions of the Hebrew people who eventually wrote things down centuries later. He also believes this is what happened in early Christianity with the New Testament (NT) Scriptures.

He goes even further and denies the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ and instead calls it a spiritual experience the apostles came to realize later.

You will see these destructive heresies often on the internet (even here) and like good Bereans when hearing of them them search the Scriptures to determine if what they are telling us is true.

Their approach is evident. They promote the Scriptures as unreliable, so as to make any objective truth from the Scriptures as questionable, then tell us to believe 19th century human being skeptics as an infallible source of truth.

Have you seen anyone do this in the Holy Scriptures? Yes Satan. Satan twisted God’s words to deceive Eve and Adam. Satan also tried to twist the Words of God against Jesus Christ. Didn’t work as Jesus rebuked Satan with the actual Words of God.

So when you see “well that didn’t really happen because we know miracles don’t happen” then such is coming from the pits of Hell.
 
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FaithT

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God revealed Himself as YHWH to Moses and said Moses, the Israelites, Pharoah and the Egyptians would see might and great things.

So that tells me that God revealed His Sovereignty over the affairs of mankind and over His own creation in Exodus. The supernatural events of Exodus are to believed because the God we know is our Sovereign King and Savior.

There are elements within professed Christianity which deny God’s Sovereign supernatural intervention in His own creation and in the affairs of mankind.

Those who deny these OT miracles tend to not believe any miracles, that everything must have a materialistic or naturalistic explanation.

For example, there is an Anglican bishop named Shelby Spong. He does not believe the OT is reliable and believes it to be the uninspired oral traditions of the Hebrew people who eventually wrote things down centuries later. He also believes this is what happened in early Christianity with the New Testament (NT) Scriptures.

He goes even further and denies the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ and instead calls it a spiritual experience the apostles came to realize later.

You will see these destructive heresies often on the internet (even here) and like good Bereans when hearing of them them search the Scriptures to determine if what they are telling us is true.

Their approach is evident. They promote the Scriptures as unreliable, so as to make any objective truth from the Scriptures as questionable, then tell us to believe 19th century human being skeptics as an infallible source of truth.

Have you seen anyone do this in the Holy Scriptures? Yes Satan. Satan twisted God’s words to deceive Eve and Adam. Satan also tried to twist the Words of God against Jesus Christ. Didn’t work as Jesus rebuked Satan with the actual Words of God.

So when you see “well that didn’t really happen because we know miracles don’t happen” then such is coming from the pits of Hell.
So, food and drink during the Exodus was a foretold miracle from God?
 
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redleghunter

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Dithering about Egyptian cattle is silly.. Sinai is a barren of water and pasture.. Even now the population is only about 800,000.. Its unbelievable that it would support 2 million people and twice that number in livestock.
Exodus does reveal the presence of YHWH was with the Israelites.

By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night. (Exodus 13:21)

Exodus also testifies YHWH provided manna, quail and water.


Is the sustenance of thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands too big for God? I mean Jesus fed 5000 with a few fish and a loaf of bread.
 
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JIMINZ

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Is the author writing an historical account or mythological like one poster said? Where did all their food and water come from? A miracle from God elsewhere?

MOSES was the author of the first 5 books of the Old Testament, and he spoke directly to God, where do you suppose he got his information from, hearsay?
 
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redleghunter

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So, food and drink during the Exodus was a foretold miracle from God?
Yes the testimony is God was in their presence and provided for them.

You may have come across the part of Exodus when the Israelites who witnessed the plagues, their deliverance and were saved by the parting of the Red Sea, complained to Moses that they did not have food and water. God provided manna in the morning, quail at night and the water they needed.
 
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redleghunter

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That is just the point, if there are as many amended stories, redacted many times, and contradictions, the Bible becomes unreliable as truth, and inerrant, it can no longer be trusted to speak the truth.

When it says Jesus died for our sin, how do you know the story hasn't been redacted as well?
Thus the poison of the skeptic.
 
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JIMINZ

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God revealed Himself as YHWH to Moses and said Moses, the Israelites, Pharoah and the Egyptians would see might and great things.

So that tells me that God revealed His Sovereignty over the affairs of mankind and over His own creation in Exodus. The supernatural events of Exodus are to believed because the God we know is our Sovereign King and Savior.

There are elements within professed Christianity which deny God’s Sovereign supernatural intervention in His own creation and in the affairs of mankind.

Those who deny these OT miracles tend to not believe any miracles, that everything must have a materialistic or naturalistic explanation.

For example, there is an Anglican bishop named Shelby Spong. He does not believe the OT is reliable and believes it to be the uninspired oral traditions of the Hebrew people who eventually wrote things down centuries later. He also believes this is what happened in early Christianity with the New Testament (NT) Scriptures.

He goes even further and denies the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ and instead calls it a spiritual experience the apostles came to realize later.

You will see these destructive heresies often on the internet (even here) and like good Bereans when hearing of them them search the Scriptures to determine if what they are telling us is true.

Their approach is evident. They promote the Scriptures as unreliable, so as to make any objective truth from the Scriptures as questionable, then tell us to believe 19th century human being skeptics as an infallible source of truth.

Have you seen anyone do this in the Holy Scriptures? Yes Satan. Satan twisted God’s words to deceive Eve and Adam. Satan also tried to twist the Words of God against Jesus Christ. Didn’t work as Jesus rebuked Satan with the actual Words of God.

So when you see “well that didn’t really happen because we know miracles don’t happen” then such is coming from the pits of Hell.

We know from the words of Jesus Himself that in these times, there are Tares, and Wheat
 
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JIMINZ

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Yes the testimony is God was in their presence and provided for them.

You may have come across the part of Exodus when the Israelites who witnessed the plagues, their deliverance and were saved by the parting of the Red Sea, complained to Moses that they did not have food and water. God provided manna in the morning, quail at night and the water they needed.

That really took care of any logistical problems, I think God has it under control, even when people do not believe it, because it doesn't sound plausible to them.
 
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FaithT

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Yes the testimony is God was in their presence and provided for them.

You may have come across the part of Exodus when the Israelites who witnessed the plagues, their deliverance and were saved by the parting of the Red Sea, complained to Moses that they did not have food and water. God provided manna in the morning, quail at night and the water they needed.

I haven’t gotten that far, yet.
 
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redleghunter

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The weather is so mild in Egypt they haven't much use for shelters for their livestock.
The ancient Egyptians had stables for horses. Why would one think they did not have similar barns for their livestock?

BBC News | Middle East | Egypt unearths world's oldest stables

Giza Secret Revealed: How 10,000 Pyramid Builders Got Fed | Live Science

And they even had specialized cattle boats:

https://oaktrust.library.tamu.edu/bitstream/handle/1969.1/156537/HAGSETH-THESIS-2015.pdf?sequence=1

They even had corrals for cattle at building sites.

http://www.aeraweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/aeragram12_1.pdf
 
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redleghunter

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That really took care of any logistical problems, I think God as it under control, even when people do not believe it, because it doesn't sound plausible to them.
Yes sir. I think you will remember what Jesus taught in the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus:

Luke 16: NASB

24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.26‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
 
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redleghunter

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The problem they have is they cannot point to a primitive text from which to draw upon and so they must speculate on what this primitive text must have read. Furthermore the proponents of this system do not agree with one another. So the end result is there are as many differing interpretations as there are theorists out there repeating this idea.
Indeed. So their theories are based on speculations and not evidence.
 
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redleghunter

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Sure. There is a lot about the Exodus we do not know. We don't know when exactly or even the route the Hebrews took. Maybe the northern part of Sinai or the southern. We don't even know where Mt. Sinai is for sure. This is nothing new and Christians have long known the historical difficulties with the Exodus account. So as faithful Christians we acknowledge these difficulties and wait for archeology to catch up. Recall that archeologists find sites all over this area of the world including the recent discovery of what is believed to the city of Ai which was not supposed to have existed. Joshua 8.
Not to mention the recent discovery of Sodom.

New Science Suggests Biblical City Of Sodom Was Smote By An Exploding Meteor
 
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redleghunter

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The logistics problems entailed by an Exodus, as biblically described, are so formidable as to render it impossible.
What is impossible for man is not impossible for God—Jesus Christ.

Did not the Exodus account on numerous occasions claim the presence of God was with Israel? Or is that impossible too?
 
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redleghunter

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Now can you tackle post # 29 by Jack RT?
Too easy:

“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’” (Luke 16:31)
 
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redleghunter

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Post29 by Jack RT, please.
Sure. The comments in post 29 are from skeptic sites which don’t believe in the supernatural actions of God (miracles) and some of them deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and that He rose from the dead bodily.

When a source says “it would have required tons and tons of food” you already know they dismiss the inspired Biblical account of God providing manna and quail. It is almost like they don’t even bother to examine the text itself.
 
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