Exodus

Hope1960 said:

I’d think they’d have to have protection from the sun and sandstorms.

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Just shade from trees.. No protection from sandstorms.

St_Worm2 said:

Hello Hope, it could also mean that animals from "all" of the different "kinds" of livestock that belonged to the Egyptians were killed (as @JIMINZ has already pointed out above .. see post #12), and/or that the deaths occurred among the flocks and herds who were living in the fields/not in shelters as your Study Bible's footnotes say.

Whatever the case may be, this cannot be a contradiction, and that for all kinds of reasons (not the least of which would be the fact that this is all taken from the same Chapter in the Exodus). For what it's worth, I have yet to find a true contradiction in the Bible (though our atheist friends, along with their father, of course, would have us believe otherwise).

God bless you!

--David

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Dithering about Egyptian cattle is silly.. Sinai is a barren of water and pasture.. Even now the population is only about 800,000.. Its unbelievable that it would support 2 million people and twice that number in livestock.

I agree with Tampa Steve and St.worm in that "all" means a great number and it is likely those animals were not stabled. When I say stabled I do not mean a modern stable but kept by their owners in close proximity perhaps in a separate structure or more than likely within the family home. Was it Anthrax? Who knows? Whatever the disease we can rest assured it was God who is the cause.


The fifth blow. 3. Cattle: ironically, after the discussion of the Egyptian horror of animal sacrifice. The next plague deals particularly with ‘beasts’ (better than ‘cattle’). Like the turning of the Nile waters to blood, this is a direct blow at Egypt’s gods. The list of animals given here is probably purely explanatory, and reads like a later stock list of domestic beasts. Camels were not widely domesticated and used till Gideon’s time, though in sporadic use much earlier. The plague in question may have been anthrax. With piles of dead frogs rotting in the fields, and with flies spreading the germs, it would be very likely, and deadly in its effects.

Cole, R. A. (1973). Exodus: an introduction and commentary (Vol. 2, p. 102). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

Hope1960 said:

I think your explanation goes against my religion. Am I right Steve? Also, did you say you’re other than LCMS? I know you’ve told me several times but I’m having a hard time keeping everybody’s religion straight.

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This is cutting edge 18th century theological liberalism. Nothing really new if you have read a modern academic commentary on Exodus. There's this theory that there are four authors/editors/redactors whatever you want to call them that have edited the text over the millennia. Think of it like evolution for your bible. The problem they have is they cannot point to a primitive text from which to draw upon and so they must speculate on what this primitive text must have read. Furthermore the proponents of this system do not agree with one another. So the end result is there are as many differing interpretations as there are theorists out there repeating this idea.

Hope1960 said:

what’s your reply to Summerville post #23?

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Sure. There is a lot about the Exodus we do not know. We don't know when exactly or even the route the Hebrews took. Maybe the northern part of Sinai or the southern. We don't even know where Mt. Sinai is for sure. This is nothing new and Christians have long known the historical difficulties with the Exodus account. So as faithful Christians we acknowledge these difficulties and wait for archeology to catch up. Recall that archeologists find sites all over this area of the world including the recent discovery of what is believed to the city of Ai which was not supposed to have existed. Joshua 8.

summerville said:

Dithering about Egyptian cattle is silly.. Sinai is a barren of water and pasture.. Even now the population is only about 800,000.. Its unbelievable that it would support 2 million people and twice that number in livestock.

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The logistics problems entailed by an Exodus, as biblically described, are so formidable as to render it impossible. The bible suggests that 3 to 3.5 million people were involved. This would require 1500 tons of food daily and that would require two, mile long, freight trains daily. Who grew this food and where was it grown? That food needs to be cooked and that would require 4000 tons of wood daily to be carried by about six more mile long freight trains daily. Oh my, what about water? A conservative estimate is that 11,000,000 gallons were needed daily. To carry all this a train of tank cars 18 miles long would be required daily. The nightly camp would have to be roughly 750 square miles. Can you just imagine distributing all that food, wood and water in such a camp? For these reasons I believe that the bible account is mythological in nature. If there actually was an Exodus it must have been very much smaller --- perhaps a few hundred to a few thousand of people. It also could have consisted of a number of these smaller migrations over several generations.

Hope1960 said:

Google Egyptian cattle.

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The Egyptians did keep cattle, but they weren't big on non Egyptian shepherds.
Ancient Egyptians raised a range of livestock such as sheep, cattle, pigs, geese and poultry. Herds were commercial enterprises, and were commonly raised on estates with professional livestock keepers such as shepherds.

Pasture was pretty sparse once you left the delta.

JackRT said:

The logistics problems entailed by an Exodus, as biblically described, are so formidable as to render it impossible. The bible suggests that 3 to 3.5 million people were involved. This would require 1500 tons of food daily and that would require two, mile long, freight trains daily. Who grew this food and where was it grown? That food needs to be cooked and that would require 4000 tons of wood daily to be carried by about six more mile long freight trains daily. Oh my, what about water? A conservative estimate is that 11,000,000 gallons were needed daily. To carry all this a train of tank cars 18 miles long would be required daily. The nightly camp would have to be roughly 750 square miles. Can you just imagine distributing all that food, wood and water in such a camp? For these reasons I believe that the bible account is mythological in nature. If there actually was an Exodus it must have been very much smaller --- perhaps a few hundred to a few thousand of people. It also could have consisted of a number of these smaller migrations over several generations.

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I think small groups who left Egypt and joined Canaanites who were already settled in Canaan is more likely. But, the OT is nothing if not exaggerations about million man armies. Fact it that David's Jerusalem was less than 10 acres and a thousand people.

I have read that when the Sea People arrived the Canaanites had to move inland to the hill country.

There is a symbiotic relationship between the townies and the bedu. The bedu take their herds and the townie herds to follow available water and pasture. They provide meat, hides, milk, yogurt and salt to the townies who provide grain, textiles and pots and pans to the bedu. It was that way into the 20th century.

Hope1960 said:

im a new LCMS Lutheran, are you LCMS too?

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Yes I am. Glad to meet you.

summerville said:

That's just how it is. The stories were amended and redacted many times over the centuries.. No surprise that there are contradictions.

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Where is the evidence for this?

summerville said:

Steve? What is LCMS?

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As an Anglican you never heard of LCMS? Find that odd.

redleghunter said:

As an Anglican you never heard of LCMS? Find that odd.

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Nope ..never heard of them. My interest is not in denominations.. my interest is in history, archaeology and to a lesser extent linguistics. I made three two week trips to the Holy Lands with my Sunday school class before 1967.. and began to question the grandiose exaggerations of the OT. Of course I was quite young so I had already come up against the global flood, Exodus, Jonah etc.

Hope1960 said:

I sent another email to my pastor. He must cringe every time he sees he’s got another email from me. I ask too many questions.

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Good keep sending those emails. You have the correct approach on where to get your answers from. Here? Even though this is a Christian site we get all kinds of error posted here. Read Exodus as if the Author is telling you the story. Because He is.

Now I’m not your pastor. But to answer your initial question. You probably came across the part during the plagues where the Egyptians themselves who witnessed the various plagues esteemed Moses as a great man.

Exodus 11: NASB

3The LORD gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians. Furthermore, the man Moses himself was greatly esteemed in the land of Egypt, both in the sight of Pharaoh’s servants and in the sight of the people. (NASB)

It is quite plausible some Egyptians needed the warnings of Moses when the plagues were announced.