Trying to figure out my situation and if I am a hopeless case

Invalidusername

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So I've made a few threads here about my backsliding in sin and etc. I've been searching and searching and researching to figure out if I am still saved or an apostate. Anyways I've come to no conclusions except I found a thread of a guy with a very similar experience as me. Here it is.

I lost my soul

This guy speaks of sinning and resisting the Holy Spirit until one day he experiences a drastic change. He loses all of his emotions and no longer experiences life the same. He basically dies spiritually.

I think I am in the same situation. I have no emotions and I have a weird covering around my heart. Like I can feel my heart and how hard it is.

This is my last thread but the question of my thread is has anyone here ever entered the "numb place"emotionally where they cannot feel any emotions or conviction but eventually got it restored? If not then I will just accept my fate and stop coming back to this site since I'm a lost soul.
 

Carl Emerson

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Sabertooth

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You are more likely to be a perfectionist or OCD. An apostate would have zero concern about the state of their eternal soul. (That is a function of the Holy Spirit, who would have abandoned such a one.)

Just get back on the horse.
 
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Invalidusername

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You are more likely to be a perfectionist or OCD. An apostate would have zero concern about the state of their eternal soul. (That is a function of the Holy Spirit, who would have abandoned such a one.)

Just get back on the horse.

I have gotten back on the horse but you have to realize is that I have no emotions at all. I don't feel sorry nor do I feel afraid of hell or anything. I am in a completely neutral spiritual state. I don't feel drawn to do anything good and neither do I feel drawn to do evil. I'm in a weird place of completely neutral and zero spiritual sensitivity.
 
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Phil W

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I have gotten back on the horse but you have to realize is that I have no emotions at all. I don't feel sorry nor do I feel afraid of hell or anything. I am in a completely neutral spiritual state. I don't feel drawn to do anything good and neither do I feel drawn to do evil. I'm in a weird place of completely neutral and zero spiritual sensitivity.
That is too bad, as it is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
The "numb" can't be sorry for what they have done.
Without a real turn from sin, there is no forgiveness.

It is your life to do with as you see fit.
If you are ready to assign it to the junk heap...so be it. But were you really ready to give up all hope you wouldn't be here...would you?
Take control of yourself.
Every action, every thought, every deed is at your behest, nobody else is controlling you.
Rely on God to help, and He will.
 
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Invalidusername

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That is too bad, as it is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
The "numb" can't be sorry for what they have done.
Without a real turn from sin, there is no forgiveness.

It is your life to do with as you see fit.
If you are ready to assign it to the junk heap...so be it. But were you really ready to give up all hope you wouldn't be here...would you?
Take control of yourself.
Every action, every thought, every deed is at your behest, nobody else is controlling you.
Rely on God to help, and He will.

I appreciate your blunt evaluation and I am at the same conclusion.

I have taken all of my deeds and thoughts into control however I am in the numb place for the moment. I did meet one person who went into the numb place and came out of it so I'm hoping I can come out of this spiritual numbness. That's why I made this thread. To see if anyone has recovered from this.
 
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Andrew77

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So I've made a few threads here about my backsliding in sin and etc. I've been searching and searching and researching to figure out if I am still saved or an apostate. Anyways I've come to no conclusions except I found a thread of a guy with a very similar experience as me. Here it is.

I lost my soul

This guy speaks of sinning and resisting the Holy Spirit until one day he experiences a drastic change. He loses all of his emotions and no longer experiences life the same. He basically dies spiritually.

I think I am in the same situation. I have no emotions and I have a weird covering around my heart. Like I can feel my heart and how hard it is.

This is my last thread but the question of my thread is has anyone here ever entered the "numb place"emotionally where they cannot feel any emotions or conviction but eventually got it restored? If not then I will just accept my fate and stop coming back to this site since I'm a lost soul.

Basically if you are asking the question, then it isn't too late. Go back to doing what is right, and you will live.
 

Kerensa

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It won't last forever, friend. Like Sabertooth says, the fact that you DO still care about your fate proves that you're not lost. It sounds like some form of depression... well, whatever it is, on a deeper level, it's just the devil's lies about you. It's not what God is telling you.

Have you sought counselling in any way? Is there a Christian counsellor you know, or a minister or even just a good friend or mentor at your church — someone you can talk to? Whatever you're going through, it's nothing that Christ hasn't overcome before you.

I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)

You need to break through this "numb state" — and you can and will. You are NOT a lost soul. One day you WILL look back on this trying time as nothing more than a dream, no matter how long it seems to be lasting while you're in it. But please, find someone to talk to. There has got to be someone you know who loves you and cares about you, even if you don't feel you can return that love, let alone feel any love for yourself. And there is ONE who loves you more than any person ever could — and He won't let you down.
 
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Invalidusername

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It won't last forever, friend. Like Sabertooth says, the fact that you DO still care about your fate proves that you're not lost. It sounds like some form of depression... well, whatever it is, on a deeper level, it's just the devil's lies about you. It's not what God is telling you.

Have you sought counselling in any way? Is there a Christian counsellor you know, or a minister or even just a good friend or mentor at your church — someone you can talk to? Whatever you're going through, it's nothing that Christ hasn't overcome before you.

I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)

You need to break through this "numb state" — and you can and will. You are NOT a lost soul. One day you WILL look back on this trying time as nothing more than a dream, no matter how long it seems to be lasting while you're in it. But please, find someone to talk to. There has got to be someone you know who loves you and cares about you, even if you don't feel you can return that love, let alone feel any love for yourself. And there is ONE who loves you more than any person ever could — and He won't let you down.

I did seek out some counseling but the guy who was supposed to be a Christian counselor didn't even know what the word apostate meant and didn't know the Bible as well as me so I quit going.

It's weird. I've been numb for three years now. The entire last three years has been a blur. I think my memory is emotional based so my memory is terrible. I've forgotten pretty much everything that has happened in the last 3 years. Nothing leaves an impact or impression on me anymore. My heart has this weird feeling where it has Saran plastic wrapped around it. It's like nothing can get through to it.

I'll try to find someone to talk to and thanks to everyone else for their input.
 
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Kerensa

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I did seek out some counseling but the guy who was supposed to be a Christian counselor didn't even know what the word apostate meant and didn't know the Bible as well as me so I quit going.

This "apostate" business... I don't get it. From a number of posts I've read on here, it seems some churches or some pastors or some Bible interpreters regularly use Hebrews 6:4-6 to strike fear into people's hearts. It keeps on and on happening here — forum members, often young and sensitive ones, terrified because they once believed and are now struggling with doubts, quoting Heb. 6:4-6 as "proof" that they're now hopelessly lost.

Where are you lot getting this from? No Christians I've ever known talk like that! What kind of church or ministry ropes people in through fear of hellfire, rather than love of Christ? Maybe it's a popular kind of theology in America, but it's not in the UK (where I live) or Australia (where I come from) or anywhere else I know.

Most sincere Christians worldwide probably don't even think of that passage, let alone live in terror of being an apostate. Every long-term follower of Christ can tell you, there are times when we ALL doubt, struggle with sin and temptation, fall into despair and mental darkness — yes, even sometimes for years — and yet God does not give up on us. That's only what Satan would love you to believe, that everything's hopeless and there's no point in even trying to get back to God. It's definitely not God telling you that.

If your church or your theology is teaching you that just because you're struggling with doubt and depression, you're an "apostate" and there's no hope for you, well, they're wrong. Get out of wherever or whatever is teaching you that stuff and find some Christians who actually know the love of Christ because they've been delivered by that love — yes, even when they fell away and had to be searched out by the Shepherd and brought back, maybe again and again. People who have been there (and I have too) can tell you: there is ALWAYS hope. The very fact that you still care about your salvation more than proves that you haven't lost it, for a start!

There's something I want to share from an account of early Christian history, but I'm having internet troubles at the moment — I'll see if I can get this to post and then post the rest later when I can. In the meantime... mate, hang in there and do not listen to these thoughts that keep telling you you're lost. They're lying. You are going to pull through this and come out stronger than you ever were before. OK?
 
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Kerensa

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Right, while I've got an internet connection... this is from a book, The History of the Church from Christ to Constantine, quoting the Christian historian Eusebius. It's an episode from the early history of Christianity — from the Apostle John, who of course knew Jesus in person and was probably his closest disciple. This is how John approached a young believer who showed great promise and then fell away — not only into despair and self-absorption, but into shockingly violent crime. You cannot read this and tell me that a believer who has fallen into "apostasy" (and worse) can never be saved!

While visiting a church near Ephesus, the Apostle John met a youngster who he felt had particular promise, and so he requested one of the elders of the church to look closely after him. This was done for some time.

As the lad grew older, however, this care was relaxed. Then, Eusebius reports, the boy "was led sadly astray by others of his own age who were idle, dissolute, and evil-livers. First they led him on by expensive entertainments; then they took him with them when they went out at night to commit robbery; then they urged him to take part in even greater crimes. Little by little he fell into their ways; and like a hard-mouthed powerful horse he dashed off the straight road, and taking the bit between his teeth rushed down the precipice the more violently because of his immense vitality. Completely renouncing God's salvation, he was no longer content with petty offenses, but, as his life was already in ruins, he decided to commit a major crime and suffer the same fate as the others. He took these same young renegades and formed them into a gang of bandits of which his was the master mind, surpassing them all in violence, cruelty, and bloodthirstiness."

Around this time, John returned and asked after this young man, and he was told what had occurred. Greatly disturbed, he immediately went to him. Eusebius says, "When he arrived at the place, and was seized by the bandits' sentry-group, he made no attempt to escape and asked no mercy, but shouted: 'This is what I have come for: take me to your leader.' . . . as John approached, he [the young man] recognized him, and filled with shame, turned to flee. But John ran after him as hard as he could, forgetting his years and calling out: 'Why do you run away from me, child . . .? You still have hopes of life. I will account to Christ for you. If need be, I will gladly suffer your death, as the Lord suffered death for us; to save you I will give my own life. Stop! believe! Christ sent me.'

"When he heard this, the young man stopped and stood with his eyes on the ground; then he threw down his weapons; then he trembled and began to weep bitterly. . . . Then he [John] brought him back to the church, interceded for him with many prayers, shared with him the ordeal of continuous fasting, . . . and did not leave him, we are told, till he had restored him to the Church, giving a perfect example of true repentance and a perfect proof of regeneration, the trophy of a visible resurrection."

There! Now DON'T tell me you're more lost than that young man and none of this applies to you!!
 
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Invalidusername

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This "apostate" business... I don't get it. From a number of posts I've read on here, it seems some churches or some pastors or some Bible interpreters regularly use Hebrews 6:4-6 to strike fear into people's hearts. It keeps on and on happening here — forum members, often young and sensitive ones, terrified because they once believed and are now struggling with doubts, quoting Heb. 6:4-6 as "proof" that they're now hopelessly lost.

Where are you lot getting this from? No Christians I've ever known talk like that! What kind of church or ministry ropes people in through fear of hellfire, rather than love of Christ? Maybe it's a popular kind of theology in America, but it's not in the UK (where I live) or Australia (where I come from) or anywhere else I know.

Most sincere Christians worldwide probably don't even think of that passage, let alone live in terror of being an apostate. Every long-term follower of Christ can tell you, there are times when we ALL doubt, struggle with sin and temptation, fall into despair and mental darkness — yes, even sometimes for years — and yet God does not give up on us. That's only what Satan would love you to believe, that everything's hopeless and there's no point in even trying to get back to God. It's definitely not God telling you that.

If your church or your theology is teaching you that just because you're struggling with doubt and depression, you're an "apostate" and there's no hope for you, well, they're wrong. Get out of wherever or whatever is teaching you that stuff and find some Christians who actually know the love of Christ because they've been delivered by that love — yes, even when they fell away and had to be searched out by the Shepherd and brought back, maybe again and again. People who have been there (and I have too) can tell you: there is ALWAYS hope. The very fact that you still care about your salvation more than proves that you haven't lost it, for a start!

There's something I want to share from an account of early Christian history, but I'm having internet troubles at the moment — I'll see if I can get this to post and then post the rest later when I can. In the meantime... mate, hang in there and do not listen to these thoughts that keep telling you you're lost. They're lying. You are going to pull through this and come out stronger than you ever were before. OK?

Hello Kerensa. I appreciate your post and it was a very interesting read. About the man who went off and there's two possibilities. Either he was never saved to begin with(the most likely one) or he simply never lost his salvation. The Bible makes it pretty clear(and it's not just Hebrews) that if you lose your salvation, you cannot get it back.

My church is actually an OSAS church and they never quote Hebrews. It's actually one of the reasons why I got lazy and started to sin. I thought since I was truly born again, it was impossible for me to lose the Holy Spirit. So I have two possibilities: either I lost my salvation and that's it or I'm still saved but just simply can't perceive it.

I really appreciate your help. I think I need deliverance or something. I have been numb for far too long. I'm starting to completely lose my personality. I used to have a great sense of humor and loved joking around. Now I'm just flat 24/7. There's no life left in me. I'm 27 now and with this numbness, I'm concerned it's going to take years or maybe never recover which is bad during this time of my life since it's the time that I'm supposed to be getting married and having kids and getting my life started. There's no life in me right now.
 
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hedrick

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It’s really hard to give advice to someone you don’t know. I could get things 100% wrong. But when I see postings like this, people who don’t think they’re saved, I often wonder whether they’re trying too hard.

It seems like people get so caught up in worrying about their salvation, that all they think about is their own spiritual state. Obviously we should be concerned about it, but it shouldn’t dominate our Christian lives. It seems like some people get trapped in a spiral, where the more they worry, the more they concentrate on themselves, and the worse they get. Jesus called on people to focus on him and on others. We can trust him to save us. We don’t have to pass some test.

My suggestion would be to find useful things to do. Helping others, education, friendship. Obviously things consistent with the Christian life, but not necessarily “Christian.” Worship and pray, but try to avoid obsession, particularly about yourself.

Consider carefully the church or other Christian community you belong to. Some people need a kick in the pants. But for you, a group that focuses on sin is not likely what you need. You need a community that cares for each other and those around them. There are plenty of churches like that.

Also consider carefully your participation in CF. In my opinion, this is a toxic place, particularly for people like you.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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So I've made a few threads here about my backsliding in sin and etc. I've been searching and searching and researching to figure out if I am still saved or an apostate. Anyways I've come to no conclusions except I found a thread of a guy with a very similar experience as me. Here it is.

I lost my soul

This guy speaks of sinning and resisting the Holy Spirit until one day he experiences a drastic change. He loses all of his emotions and no longer experiences life the same. He basically dies spiritually.

I think I am in the same situation. I have no emotions and I have a weird covering around my heart. Like I can feel my heart and how hard it is.

This is my last thread but the question of my thread is has anyone here ever entered the "numb place"emotionally where they cannot feel any emotions or conviction but eventually got it restored? If not then I will just accept my fate and stop coming back to this site since I'm a lost soul.

Yes, I've had some memorable occasions in the past where I literally felt emotionally "numb." In my case, it probably came from the ongoing mental stressors of a combination of things in my life, one of which was sin, but the other was deep seated and long-term family problems with a helping of both frustration with life and depression from being lonely as a younger single person. I'm decades older now, married, and have a somewhat better life, even if I still at times deal with tendencies toward depression (some of it may be genetic, unfortunately).

In sum: don't assume that what you're feeling is just "all spiritual." It can be a confluence of social and psychological factors. If there are spiritual issues also involved, of course that kind of thing doesn't help us 'feel better.' But just know that a lot of what you're going through may not even be spiritual in nature, even if you think it is. If you can afford it and if there is help available to you in your area, you may want to seek some treatment from professional Christian psychologists. If not, I'd recommend that instead of trying to 'feel' different about where you're at in life right now, you instead take time to learn some things about reorienting your outlook on life as a whole and not just focusing in on what you think are failures in the face of God. I'm sure that what you think feels like 'Saran-Wrap' around your heart is more or less your emotional equilibrium (i.e. your brain) being disrupted from an overload of ongoing frustration; maybe there are some other cognitive issues you're not currently aware of. Some of this can be slowly redirected over time if you get the right supportive (and educated) people in place to help you.

2PhiloVoid :cool:
 
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Phil W

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I appreciate your blunt evaluation and I am at the same conclusion.

I have taken all of my deeds and thoughts into control however I am in the numb place for the moment. I did meet one person who went into the numb place and came out of it so I'm hoping I can come out of this spiritual numbness. That's why I made this thread. To see if anyone has recovered from this.
I would imagine that "spiritually numb" and "spiritually dead" are interchangeable terms, so I will attest that God enabled me to recover.
I had already tried everything in my power to find life, including getting more and more drunk and high, art, music, travel, and even tried taking some junior college classes because I was so tired of being drunk and stoned.
It didn't help, as I was still empty inside.
Then one day I saw a fellow employee reading a bible in a stairwell after work. I was walking home and he was waiting for his ride.
I asked him about it and he ended up inviting me to a bible meeting his church held on Thursdays, (that day).
I got baptized the same night.
Since then, thanks be to God, my life has been centered on others instead of on myself.
I have been enabled to see that not only was I not the only one who was empty, but that so many were worse off than myself.
As my perspective changed, so did my spirit.
I could quote all l the applicable bible verses that applied to me, and now to you, but the first "step" is to be ready to do what ever God says for you to do.
God can not only help you, but He can use you to help others...if you let Him.
 
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Alynn

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I appreciate your blunt evaluation and I am at the same conclusion.

I have taken all of my deeds and thoughts into control however I am in the numb place for the moment. I did meet one person who went into the numb place and came out of it so I'm hoping I can come out of this spiritual numbness. That's why I made this thread. To see if anyone has recovered from this.

Do you have that forum? Im going through the same thing
 
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lismore

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This is my last thread but the question of my thread is has anyone here ever entered the "numb place"emotionally where they cannot feel any emotions or conviction but eventually got it restored? If not then I will just accept my fate and stop coming back to this site since I'm a lost soul.

Hello. If you were a lost hardened soul you wouldn't be bothered in the least by anything, the fact that you're posting threads and questions shows that you're still in the fight. God Bless You :)
 
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Alynn

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Hello. If you were a lost hardened soul you wouldn't be bothered in the least by anything, the fact that you're posting threads and questions shows that you're still in the fight. God Bless You :)

How so? I understand exactly how he feels. There is no desire to sin but there isnt any indications that God is with us either. Our hearts is what is hardened and without the Love of God in us , we cant repent, we cant be joyous , were just emotionless. And when what I mean by cant repent is we can repent intellectually but from the heart it's like there something wrapped around blacking us from doing so.
 
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Kerensa

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How so? I understand exactly how he feels. There is no desire to sin but there isnt any indications that God is with us either. Our hearts is what is hardened and without the Love of God in us , we cant repent, we cant be joyous , were just emotionless. And when what I mean by cant repent is we can repent intellectually but from the heart it's like there something wrapped around blacking us from doing so.

That sounds to me like some kind of severe depression or similar. Trust me from experience — it is NOTHING to do with God; it is NOTHING to do with your state of salvation. It's just error, or evil, or the tempter, talking — and all he can ever do is lie, as Jesus himself said. God has not left you; how can He, when He's already everywhere? ("Do not I fill heaven and earth?" says the Lord — Jer. 23:24)

It hurts my heart when I see young (and sometimes not-so-young) people on this forum who've been terrified into a state of near paralysis by these fearmongering theologies that bang on about apostasy and losing God's grace and being lost forever just because you've slipped into doubt or despair. Most of Christianity doesn't teach anything like that, only the fundamentalist fringe. If you're going to a church like that, get the hell out of it and find somewhere that actually helps you to feel the saving, healing love of God. Find someone you trust as a counsellor, if you need to speak to someone one-to-one and confidentially. Pray that God will guide you to where you can hear and feel Him again and know that He never left you after all — because that IS the truth, no matter what your feelings (or lack of feelings) tell you. And He can always hear you, even if you feel like you can't hear Him. As Lismore says, the fact that you care at all about this is more than proof that you aren't a lost soul. Keep going, just keep going. You are dearly, dearly loved by God and you WILL discover that again.
 
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