Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

grasping the after wind · Feb 22, 2020

durangodawood said:
I dont want cars....anywhere.

And no one is forcing you to have one. I approve of that.

durangodawood · Feb 22, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
And no one is forcing you to have one. I approve of that.

Actually, as a taxpayer, I am forced to participate in the whole car-frastructure.

grasping the after wind · Feb 22, 2020

durangodawood said:
Actually, as a taxpayer, I am forced to participate in the whole car-frastructure.

I weep for you. I deeply sympathize.

durangodawood · Feb 22, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
I weep for you. I deeply sympathize.

I see. You resent forced participation when its on you. But you mock others so long as your agenda being enforced.

grasping the after wind · Feb 22, 2020

durangodawood said:
I see. You resent forced participation when its on you. But you mock others so long as your agenda being enforced.

I wasn't mocking I seriously sympathize. I do not think you should d be made to drive a car or to pay for other people to do so. All government services should be voluntarily funded.

durangodawood · Feb 22, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
I wasn't mocking I seriously sympathize. I do not think you should d be made to drive a car or to pay for other people to do so. All government services should be voluntarily funded.

Oh. Sorry about that. I just assumed mockery because 99.8% of similar responses would not be in earnest.

All the same, I do think there's a number of social functions we all have to participate in. Educating children is a pretty non-controversial one, just to demonstrate the principle.

dqhall · Feb 22, 2020

archer75 said:
Yeah, sorry to break it to everyone, but there were things about the Soviet Union that were good. And you can ask any immigrant (or any person who still lives there), and they can praise those things without expressing support horrific crimes, Stalin's countless murders, etc.

What were some of those good things?

You could get real time off work and go away with your family to a nice, low-key "resort" kind of place. Normal people could do this. Education was free and was at a pretty high level. Public transit in the cities worked and was cheap. It STILL WORKS. The Moscow subway is still so much better than the New York subway, it's insane. Is this some kind of authoritarian dream, that if you miss a subway train in the evening, another will be by in 2 minutes, not in 35 minutes?

I remember Soviets had to wait in line for bread because the atheist communists mismanaged everything. Religious people were sent to prison labor camps where many died.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 23, 2020

iluvatar5150 said:
Then you're missing some context.

The OP said:

Human rights abuses have nothing to do with socialism. Economic collapse can be a result of the most extreme and inept forms of socialism, but they're not the result of the sort of European-style democratic socialism that Bernie espouses.

It's supremely dishonest and just pretty stupid to take Bernie's very narrow praise of certain aspects of these societies and try to extrapolate it to him being okay with all of the bad things that they did. It would be like saying that because I think Trump is pretty good at marketing and self-branding that I'm also okay with his race-baiting and his narcissism. Not only is it wildly incorrect, it's just dumb.

OK.
I agree with you on that.

But I live in a country where everything is "free".
Free college.
Not everyone could get in.
The professors are of no help to the students.
The structure is free but it costs to go there and beyond what many can afford due to the socialist structure that puts a cap on earnings.

Free health care.
I could write pages.
Let's put it this way:
The healthcare if free...
but if you want to get well,
you have to pay.

Another way of saying what I'm talking about is that NOTHING is free.
We pay for everything..in one way or another.
And, having tried both systems...I can be sure that capitalism is the best system.

I hope America doesn't get ruined by those that believe services can be free of charge.

KCfromNC · Feb 23, 2020

Uber Genius said:
Of Cuba Sanders says:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

Of Moscow Sanders said:

"There are some things that [the Soviet Union does] better than we do and which were, in fact, quite impressive. Subway systems in in Moscow costs 5 kopecs — or 7 cents. Faster, cleaner, more attractive and more efficient than any in the U.S. — and cheap," an official statement from the Burlington's office reads. "The train trip that we took from Leningrad to Moscow — for Soviet citizens — was very cheap." Sanders then went on to praise "programs for youth and workers" that he saw during the trip.

Just not so sure that Bernie supporters have any idea about the horrible nature of these socialist regimes that Bernie praised. Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse. Bernie needs to walk back his 35-year history of praising these regimes.

For more see:Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

If this matters, certainly the more recent praise of Russia by another candidate matters even more :

Trump sides with Russia against FBI

At a news conference after the summit, President Trump was asked if he believed his own intelligence agencies or the Russian president when it came to the allegations of meddling in the elections.

"President Putin says it's not Russia. I don't see any reason why it would be," he replied.

But on the plus side, I'm glad to see that disinformation sources have started digging up dirt on a different one of Donald's opponents. All of the Russian propaganda about Biden and Ukraine was starting to get a bit boring.

KCfromNC · Feb 23, 2020

wing2000 said:
.....and?

SOCIALISM!

I mean, duh, if they actually came out and gave the full info on the quote people looking to rationalize their vote for the guy who paid off a inappropriate content star after having sex with her while his wife was home with their newborn might realize that the other guy isn't as bad as they imagined.

Larniavc · Feb 23, 2020

Uber Genius said:
Of Cuba Sanders says:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

Of Moscow Sanders said:

"There are some things that [the Soviet Union does] better than we do and which were, in fact, quite impressive. Subway systems in in Moscow costs 5 kopecs — or 7 cents. Faster, cleaner, more attractive and more efficient than any in the U.S. — and cheap," an official statement from the Burlington's office reads. "The train trip that we took from Leningrad to Moscow — for Soviet citizens — was very cheap." Sanders then went on to praise "programs for youth and workers" that he saw during the trip.

Just not so sure that Bernie supporters have any idea about the horrible nature of these socialist regimes that Bernie praised. Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse. Bernie needs to walk back his 35-year history of praising these regimes.

For more see:Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

You don’t see the nuance in this at all?

Really?

*checks what website this is*

Oh, I see.

KCfromNC · Feb 23, 2020

dzheremi said:
Remember how in the 1980s the USA not only praised the Afghan mujahideen as "freedom fighters" during the Afghan-Soviet war, but also gave them money via other Muslim nations? Remember who was president at the time, and which party he was from? (The NY Times remembers, if no one here does.)

Sure, and even more recently I remember the leader of the GOP praising the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan : Why Is Trump Spouting Russian Propaganda?

... the reason Russia was in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia. They were right to be there.

I'm curious to see if a candidate's statements supporting Soviet Russia are a consistent disqualifier from voting for them.

Larniavc · Feb 23, 2020

Uber Genius said:
Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse. Bernie needs to walk back his 35-year history of praising these regimes.

“The United States continued to move backward on human rights at home and abroad in the second year of President Donald Trump’s administration. With Trump’s Republican party controlling the legislative branch in 2018, his administration and Congress were able to pass laws, implement regulations, and carry out policies that violate or undermine human rights.”

World Report 2019: Rights Trends in the United States

Seen any good planks recently?

KCfromNC · Feb 23, 2020

archer75 said:
That is true. But if he had run as a Democrat, he would have adopted a different personality.

I don't know - we heard all sorts of things about how he would adopt a different personality once elected. That hasn't exactly worked out. I'm not convinced he's capable of it.

KCfromNC · Feb 23, 2020

GoldenBoy89 said:
Can you show when and where Bernie has done precisely that?

That's the fun of it

- Democratic candidate recognizing that a particular city has good public transportation? SOCIALISM!
- GOP candidate saying he trusts Putin over our own intelligence services? Making America Great Again.

Fantine · Feb 23, 2020

Not sure if readers are aware of the horrible nature if the regimes Trump praises--putin in Russia, Erdogan in Turkey, the Philippines, and even Netanyahu's human rights violations and fraud crimes in Israel.

Why worry about Bernie's 1980 perceptions when Trump is patterning his policies after today's worst?

wing2000 · Feb 23, 2020

Uber Genius said:
Of Cuba Sanders says:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

To the op: Is appreciating a revolution the same as praise?

Do you appreciate what led to the Cuban revolution?

grasping the after wind · Feb 24, 2020

I use Bernie's own mouth and Bernie's past actions, not the opinions given by anti Bernie publications, to decide what Bernie believes in and what Bernie intends to do.

Uber Genius · Feb 24, 2020

wing2000 said:
To the op: Is appreciating a revolution the same as praise?

Do you appreciate what led to the Cuban revolution?

Yes. You seem to be dodging the fact that calling Cuban socialism in the 1980s, " than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with," is praise. Where did they get all the money to "Provide free health care and free education, and housing," from?

They stole it from the people. People who were not killed, fled to mostly to the U.S.

This is the great lie of all socialism. It starts with an election or coup then the government steals peoples businesses and property "for the good of the people," next the people exit if they are able, finally economic collapse. When the masses, who would never dream of robbing their neighbor, elect a socialist into power, they are just outsourcing the robbery. However, my claim is that this outsoursing is short-sighted.

We have Warren with the brilliant idea that the average middle-class worker who does NOT have a college education will pay for a richer person's education (someone who will make on average 4 times the middle income earner's wages). The poor pay for the rich... yet no one complains?

Socialism when uncovered in the slightest, has a poor economic record, poor human rights record, poor healthcare record. Bernie doesn't give the real details, he glosses over the highlights.

In the article I attached it goes on to talk about Bernie's praise of Russian infrastructure and especially the efficiency of the train system. In reply:

"Anna Borshchevskaya, a senior fellow at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy, told the Examiner. "People like Sanders don't realize what the cost of tickets meant in the context of Soviet society. Nothing was 'free.'"

"When I lived in the Soviet Union, everything was falling apart. People don't realize how many people Stalin killed by building the Moscow subway station. Sure, the trains worked, but that other factor is dismissed. I have no doubt Bernie was sincere in what he said, but there was a whole disregard for life and safety in every aspect of Soviet life, including infrastructure," Borschevkaya said.

Aryeh Jay · Feb 24, 2020

GoldenBoy89 said:
That’s the thing though. If Trump were a Democrat, we wouldn’t have elected him president.

President Trump could never lower himself to be a Democrat. Ever.

Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

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