Salvation during the tribulation

The Righterzpen

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Herod didn't rebuild the Temple either.

Herod had totally tore the temple down from Ezra's day and rebuilt it. Matter of fact; the religious leaders would not let him start his "renovation" project until all the materials were "on sight".

These materials were probably stored in the Antonia Fortress; (which is what a lot of people think is the "temple mount" today). The temple was actually south of that. That complex that people call "the temple mount" was actually a Roman military base.

Herod the Great built a temple for the Jews | Bibleview
 
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The Righterzpen

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Jesus didn't go to Egypt as a baby.. That an attempt by the gospels to hijack Hosea.

So essentially you don't believe the Scripture? Is that correct?

Because the gospels clearly say Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt.
 
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summerville

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So essentially you don't believe the Scripture? Is that correct?

Because the gospels clearly say Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt.


The writer was taking a verse out of Hosea to try and prove Jesus was the Messiah. Very unnecessary.. All they did was muddy the water.. They did the same thing with Isaiah. Shame really.
 
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The Righterzpen

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The writer was taking a verse out of Hosea to try and prove Jesus was the Messiah. Very unnecessary.. All they did was muddy the water.. They did the same thing with Isaiah. Shame really.

Scripture was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture
is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So why did God decide those verses from Hosea needed to be in the gospels?
 
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Randy777

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Basically if your a christian & you get left behind that means your not going to heaven right?because God gave you a chance to get it right before he came back...?
I don't hold to a pretribulation rapture. Just a 2nd coming where all are gathered on that day from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
If you have the spirit of Christ in you then you are one with Him. You have been sanctified, justified and are clean, blameless and holy in Gods sight.

Before the Lord comes I would state the signs given in Rev 11 can't be mistaken.

As for the saints alive on earth during the reign of the beast (the great tribulation)
Rev states this.
“If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

And if any willfully receive the mark of the beast they will earn the 2nd death
SO AGAIN
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
 
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summerville

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Scripture was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture
is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So why did God decide those verses from Hosea needed to be in the gospels?

God didn't do that. Men did .. Fiddling with scripture was a mistake. Politics aside, they didn't need to embellish Jesus as they did by claiming Isaiah and Hosea were about Jesus.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Basically if your a christian & you get left behind that means your not going to heaven right?because God gave you a chance to get it right before he came back...?

Bad theology is just... bad...

At any rate, the end comes for everyone, and some will see their end today (1 person dies every 12 seconds in the U.S. alone)... all must submit to Christ as Lord, and believe in Him, to see heaven.

Those who don't will see judgment and the second death. Those who do will find mercy.

What each of us does today, is of greater importance than things that may happen tommorow.

Christ came to give us life, not make us into soothsayers.

Read 2 Peter 2:3
 
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miamited

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Basically if your a christian & you get left behind that means your not going to heaven right?because God gave you a chance to get it right before he came back...?

Hi serenity,

Just my 2¢ worth, but I believe it comes from careful study of the Scriptures...

The 'time of great tribulation' and the 'day of God's wrath' are two separate events. Now, whether or not one wants to refer to the removal of God's children from the face of the earth before the wicked are thrown into the fiery furnace of God's wrath, as the 'rapture' is purely a matter of semantics. Chapter 14 of the Revelation of Jesus does teach that first the children of God are removed to safety and then the wrath of God is released upon those who are 'left behind'.

Personally, I don't think the book series by that name has it all quite right. There will not be any airline piilots or preachers who didn't make the 'first' cut living upon the earth to then put their trust in the Lord, once Jesus returns to collect those who are his. Jesus returns one time to gather the elect and that's it. Those who are not gathered with Jesus upon his return will then endure the 'winepress of God's wrath'. Once the wicked have battled and been destroyed and the earth is once again cleansed of mankind, Jesus will return to the earth with those who he gathered and begin the 1,000 year reign of the Lord upon the earth.

However, the 'time of great tribulation' comes upon the earth before Jesus returns to gather the elect. We will all, those alive at the time, endure the 'time of great tribulation'. Both believers and non-believers will live out those days. The great tribulation comes from the will and wickedness of man. The idea promoted in the book series that Jesus will return and then life will go on somehow with people scurrying to and fro to 'find God's salvation' is not an accurate depiction of the timeline of events that the Scriptures offer.

Trust chapter 14 of John's revelation. Jesus comes. He gathers those whose names are written in his Book of Life. Everyone else goes into the winepress of God's wrath. I believe where a lot of people get confused is in thinking that the event called the 'tribulation' and the event called the 'winepress of God's wrath' are the same thing. They are not!

The tribulation is a man-made event. It will be days in which believers are still alive but are under severe persecution for their faith by those without faith. The winepress of God's wrath follows after the days of 'great tribulation' and the rising up in the air of God's children to meet the Lord. This is what the Scriptures promise that believers will not endure. We will not endure the wrath of God, but we will have to endure the days of great tribulation of man against the saints.

After the 1,000 year reign with Christ upon the earth, all the dead will be raised to life one last time, and along with those who lived the 1,000 year reign of Christ, will be judged. All those whose names are found in the Lamb's Book of Life will receive the promise of God's eternal life with Him. All those whose names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life will be cast out. Then the eternal existence for all begins.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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JacksBratt

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I know but im talking about the people who kept fornicating and never repented for their sins or the homosexuals who never repented or the adulterers and etc that didnt repent for their sins and they get left behind... They wont have a chance to repent again during the tribulation because the tribulation is only for those who have never recieved jesus not the ones who did recieve jesus but kept on sinning..?
Still.... the same answer... If you are a Christian.. you are taken in the Rapture.... If you are not... you do not get raptured.

Strong solid Christians... Taken...
Weak, or baby Christians, stumbling Christians. Struggling Christians. .... still taken... just don't have much to show for it when they get there.
 
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The Righterzpen

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God didn't do that. Men did .. Fiddling with scripture was a mistake. Politics aside, they didn't need to embellish Jesus as they did by claiming Isaiah and Hosea were about Jesus.

If men "screwed up" the gospels; how do you know what is trustworthy and what isn't? How do you know if anything they wrote about Jesus is accurate?

Scripture is either an all or nothing proposition. It's either all true or none of its true.
 
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summerville

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Still.... the same answer... If you are a Christian.. you are taken in the Rapture.... If you are not... you do not get raptured.

Strong solid Christians... Taken...
Weak, or baby Christians, stumbling Christians. Struggling Christians. .... still taken... just don't have much to show for it when they get there.

Rapture is bad theology invented by Darby and promoted by Scofield.
 
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summerville

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If men "screwed up" the gospels; how do you know what is trustworthy and what isn't? How do you know if anything they wrote about Jesus is accurate?

Scripture is either an all or nothing proposition. It's either all true or none of its true.

I think they do just fine until they try to hijack Jewish scripture and change their meaning.. and its so bloody obvious when they do.. Its laughable.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Rapture is bad theology invented by Darby and promoted by Scofield.

Yet you weren't talking about that. You said putting scripture that applied to the Messiah and placing it on Jesus' head was "unnecessary"..

Is Jesus not Messiah, in your view?

Taking words of prophecy and misinterpreting them is not what The Apostles did...
 
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summerville

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If men "screwed up" the gospels; how do you know what is trustworthy and what isn't? How do you know if anything they wrote about Jesus is accurate?

Scripture is either an all or nothing proposition. It's either all true or none of its true.

All or nothing? I don't think so. Do you think Jonah was really swallowed by a big fish? If you do, do you also think Giuseppe was swallowed by a whale?
 
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The Righterzpen

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I think they do just fine until they try to hijack Jewish scripture and change their meaning.. and its so bloody obvious when they do.. Its laughable.

You still didn't answer the question; how do you know what's accurate and what isn't if you are picking and choosing which ones you want and which ones you don't?
 
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summerville

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Yet you weren't talking about that. You said putting scripture that applied to the Messiah and placing it on Jesus' head was "unnecessary"..

Is Jesus not Messiah, in your view?

Taking words of prophecy and misinterpreting them is not what The Apostles did...

As a Christian I believe Jesus was the Messiah, but I am also well aware of first century politics. The Sermon on the Mount is best evidence for that. Jesus knew what the burning issue of the times was and he knew the Jews were fighting amongst themselves and it would end badly.
 
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summerville

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You still didn't answer the question; how do you know what's accurate and what isn't if you are picking and choosing which ones you want and which ones you don't?

Easy..READ the scripture.. When the identity changes for a single verse, something is very fishy.
 
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The Righterzpen

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All or nothing? I don't think so. Do you think Jonah was really swallowed by a big fish? If you do, do you also think Giuseppe was swallowed by a whale?

Yes, I believe Jonah was swallowed by a whale. I googled "Giuseppe swallowed by a whale" and did not get what that was?

Can someone be swallowed by a whale and survive? There are several stories of people who have. So Yes, apparently they can!

Are all those stories true? I don't know; but they are also not Scripture.

Do you believe the Scripture is 100% reliable. Apparently, you would say "no" to that question.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Easy..READ the scripture.. When the identity changes for a single verse, something is very fishy.

Well, when there are changes; your job is to figure out why those changes are there.

For example "... made a little lower than the angels".

Hebrew OT "angels" is the word "Elohim".
Greek NT "angels" is the word "angolos".

"Angolos" means "messenger". Messengers can be "non-carbon based entities" Scripture calls "angels" or they can be human messengers or even disembodied saints. Which "messengers" was Christ made "lower than? (He was made a servant to redeem sinners. He emptied Himself for the sake of salvation of those who'd come to believe.)

"Elohim" means "gods". It's also used to describe "God" (Trinity) Christ was "made lower" than God (the Father).

All passages jive together theologically and with each other. Even though the NT uses a different word the the OT. God did that on purpose.

Why did He do that?
Because it's the "glory of God to conceal a matter and the honor of kings to search it out."

We are to be diligent students of the Bible. If we don't understand something that does not automatically mean the text is wrong.

But if you don't trust that God had a purpose in doing something the way He did; of course you will find fault with the Bible. Again, issue between you and God; not with how He directed people of old to write it.
 
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Hazelelponi

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As a Christian I believe Jesus was the Messiah, but I am also well aware of first century politics. The Sermon on the Mount is best evidence for that. Jesus knew what the burning issue of the times was and he knew the Jews were fighting amongst themselves and it would end badly.

I am unclear what your point is exactly here but since this isn't a debate or discussion thread I'll not press the point..
 
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