Who Changed Shabbat?

pasifika · Feb 23, 2020

BobRyan said:
And also the New Covenant.

Jer 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

But Isaiah knew the weekly Sabbath was every 7th day and not "once a year" and he also knew that only 3 of the yearly feasts were mandatory for Israel.

Heb 10 tells us the yearly events end at the cross because the animal sacrifices that were the liturgy of those yearly events ended at the cross.

That leaves the weekly Sabbath - a day of "rest" and of "holy convocation".

For all mankind.

While it is true that the weekly Sabbath was "made for mankind" as Christ points out in Mark 2:27 and as we see in Genesis 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 -- the same cannot be said for the yearly feast-Sabbaths that ended at the cross according to Heb 10.

God was being accurate in Isaiah 66:23 to say of the weekly cycle Sabbath "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Yes, the new covenant as you quote from Jeremiah 31 is not like the covenant which God made with those in Sinai...and the 7th day Sabbath was in that covenant (old covenant)...where Jeremiah said the new covenant is not like that covenant...

And Hebrews 4..God swore that they shall never enter His rest...(Sabbath on 7th day)
So was there any text stated God change His mind regarding entering in to His rest on the 7th day Sabbath where He swore that they shall not enter into?...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 24, 2020

pasifika said:
Yes, the new covenant as you quote from Jeremiah 31 is not like the covenant which God made with those in Sinai...and the 7th day Sabbath was in that covenant (old covenant)...where Jeremiah said the new covenant is not like that covenant...

Not like My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them...
What do you think that means? You are not in context. HOW did they break it?

"Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

pasifika · Feb 24, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Not like My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them...
What do you think that means? You are not in context. HOW did they break it?

"Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

So who are "They", which broke this covenant?
If "they" means those in Sinai when God made this covenant with them... is it clear then that the covenant was for only those who came out of Egypt to Sinai?

Also, the new covenant was made because "they" broke the covenant in Sinai. .So why are we (Christians ) still force to follow a covenant which clearly God is making obsolete because "they" broke it..

They broke it because of their disobedience or in other words they broke it because they are sinners just like any other person whether Jews or Gentiles...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 24, 2020

pasifika said:
So who are "They", which broke this covenant?
If "they" means those in Sinai when God made this covenant with them... is it clear then that the covenant was for only those who came out of Egypt to Sinai?

Also, the new covenant was made because "they" broke the covenant in Sinai. .So why are we (Christians ) still force to follow a covenant which clearly God is making obsolete because "they" broke it..

They broke it because of their disobedience or in other words they broke it because they are sinners just like any other person whether Jews or Gentiles...

Israel. Are you grafted in? Who did He say the new Covenant is with? The same people who broke it. So why did He say "even though I was a HUSBAND to them"? So what does it say the new covenant is?

guevaraj · Feb 24, 2020

pasifika said:
If you love me keep my commandments...in another way of putting it is.... if you believe me then love one another....

Brother, your own heart deceives you so that you "assume" that you know in an easy and natural way how to love, when the ten commandments show you that you fail when you actively reject the ten minimum written commandments knowing that you are not obeying them, with the excuse of "the error of the lawless" eliminating the minimum standard that Jesus gave us of ten commandments before His sacrifice for our sins. After Jesus’ Sacrifice, He expects are "righteousness" to be greater than the ten commandments, not less than the ten commandments with those who preceded us doing everything possible to obey the ten commandments.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:20 NIV)

What the Holy Spirit does to put the ten commandments in our hearts is to "remind" us of at least the ten commandments of Jesus, that those who embrace "the error of the lawless" actively reject to their own "destruction", you have been forewarned by Peter. You want the broad road of no written commandments, but Jesus expects you to find the narrow gate of obedience to all His ten minimum commandments and not the wide gate of wanting your own flexible road without written commandments. You want what everyone else wants, to reject God’s written standard; that Israel more easily forgot because the Holy Spirit did not assume the responsibility of “reminding” them, as He does now after Jesus for those who do not actively reject His “reminder” of the written commandments with “the error of the lawless”.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. (Matthew 7:13 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Danthemailman · Feb 24, 2020

guevaraj said:
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:20 NIV)

This statement from Jesus would certainly come as a shock to the multitude of Jews who had great admiration of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, for their knowledge of the law and seeming righteousness (in external observance of the law), yet Jesus points out their righteousness was defective.

Paul explains in Romans 9:30-32 that even the Gentiles "who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone."

Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:3-4, "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES."

The righteousness that exceeds the "righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees" (self righteousness) is the righteousness of God which is from God by faith.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, therighteousness which is from God by faith.

Romans 3:21 - But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference.

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

guevaraj · Feb 24, 2020

Danthemailman said:
Paul explains

Brother, Jesus does not ask us to obey the commandments to be saved. We are saved by believing Jesus in what He asks us to do. His request to obey the commandments is if we love Him. You love Him? Then you must obey the commandments as best you can. Jesus does not ask you to obey them perfectly to be saved, but to show that you believe Him by trying and not giving up His commandments because we do not comply with perfect obedience.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. (James 2:14-18 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Bob S · Feb 24, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Not like My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them...
What do you think that means? You are not in context. HOW did they break it?

"Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

If I am understanding you correctly you are not a Semite, but you think you are grafted in to Israel thus now you are a Jew by decision. Then you tell us the old covenant law is now in to your heart and because of that you are able to do what Israel was not able to do. You can keep the law now because of where it is? Israel failed because the law was in the book Moses wrote it in?

Now lets get really honest. Do you now ever fall short of the old covenant laws? I wonder why Jesus bothered to come to this Earth and die for naught? If you are able to live a perfect life, (save you self) because the law(613 of them) are written in your heart then Jesus has deceived everyone.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 24, 2020

Bob S said:
If I am understanding you correctly you are not a Semite, but you think you are grafted in to Israel thus now you are a Jew by decision.

Why do you say that? A Jew "by decision"?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 24, 2020

Bob S said:
Now lets get really honest. Do you now ever fall short of the old covenant laws? I wonder why Jesus bothered to come to this Earth and die for naught? If you are able to live a perfect life, (save you self) because the law(613 of them) are written in your heart then Jesus has deceived everyone.

Do you not know how all this works now? Sin is the transgression of the law. We needed sacrifices to cover our sins. Yeshua died and became a curse for us. He now forgives us our sin if we repent.

Bob S · Feb 24, 2020

Okay, I appreciate that you depend on Jesus for your salvation, Amen! The Law tells the ones that were under it never to cut their sideburns and to wear the tzitzit etc. Do you follow those laws or do you just ask Jesus to forgive you for not following all the 613 laws that pertain to the Laws that you tell us we must observe?

pasifika · Feb 25, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Israel. Are you grafted in? Who did He say the new Covenant is with? The same people who broke it. So why did He say "even though I was a HUSBAND to them"? So what does it say the new covenant is?

Okay, it is Israel "unfaithful Israel" where the first covenant was made...Hebrews 8:9.." It will not be like the covenant i made with their ancestors when I took them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them...

So, the new covenant was not made with the unfaithful again but the faithful Israel (this is Both faithful Israel and gentiles)..the House of Israel and the house of Judah - faithful Gentiles are called Jews...

pasifika · Feb 25, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, your own heart deceives you so that you "assume" that you know in an easy and natural way how to love, when the ten commandments show you that you fail when you actively reject the ten minimum written commandments knowing that you are not obeying them, with the excuse of "the error of the lawless" eliminating the minimum standard that Jesus gave us of ten commandments before His sacrifice for our sins. After Jesus’ Sacrifice, He expects are "righteousness" to be greater than the ten commandments, not less than the ten commandments with those who preceded us doing everything possible to obey the ten commandments.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:20 NIV)

What the Holy Spirit does to put the ten commandments in our hearts is to "remind" us of at least the ten commandments of Jesus, that those who embrace "the error of the lawless" actively reject to their own "destruction", you have been forewarned by Peter. You want the broad road of no written commandments, but Jesus expects you to find the narrow gate of obedience to all His ten minimum commandments and not the wide gate of wanting your own flexible road without written commandments. You want what everyone else wants, to reject God’s written standard; that Israel more easily forgot because the Holy Spirit did not assume the responsibility of “reminding” them, as He does now after Jesus for those who do not actively reject His “reminder” of the written commandments with “the error of the lawless”.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. (Matthew 7:13 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Love of God cannot achieve within you by following the 10 commandments but by faith in Jesus Christ because God's love is in Jesus not in the letter or the stone where the 10 commandments was written...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 25, 2020

Bob S said:
Okay, I appreciate that you depend on Jesus for your salvation, Amen! The Law tells the ones that were under it never to cut their sideburns and to wear the tzitzit etc. Do you follow those laws or do you just ask Jesus to forgive you for not following all the 613 laws that pertain to the Laws that you tell us we must observe?

No one can keep all the laws (613 as you say). In fact, at the present, most of the laws are not relevant, there is not even a Temple or priesthood. I try to follow as best as I can and when I fail, yes, I ask for forgiveness. 1 John 1:9 Sin is still the transgression of the law. What do you follow?

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 25, 2020

pasifika said:
Okay, it is Israel "unfaithful Israel" where the first covenant was made...Hebrews 8:9.." It will not be like the covenant i made with their ancestors when I took them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them...

So, the new covenant was not made with the unfaithful again but the faithful Israel (this is Both faithful Israel and gentiles)..the House of Israel and the house of Judah - faithful Gentiles are called Jews...

Of course it was. Yeshua did not go and preach in China...He came to His own. Gentiles are grafted in...

pasifika · Feb 25, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Do you not know how all this works now? Sin is the transgression of the law. We needed sacrifices to cover our sins. Yeshua died and became a curse for us. He now forgives us our sin if we repent.

The law of Christ -the law that requires Faith...this is the law of the faithful...

Not "the Law" given in Sinai- that law requires your own works or doing and this the response of those who think they can obey God by their works.....Exodus 19:8..."The people all responded " We will Do everything the Lord has said"...

instead they should respond like "we will believe what the Lord has said...

That is the difference in us doing things on our own..and us believing in someone (God) doing it for us that is "Faith"

pasifika · Feb 25, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Of course it was. Yeshua did not go and preach in China...He came to His own. Gentiles are grafted in...

I said the new covenant was not made with the unfaithful Israelites again... they perish in the desert...
The new covenant was made Only with the faithful (both Israel and gentiles including China. .where the proclamation of this new covenant through the message of the prophets and the apostles to the whole world...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 25, 2020

pasifika said:
The law of Christ -the law that requires Faith...this is the law of the faithful...

Not "the Law" given in Sinai- that law requires your own works or doing and this the response of those who think they can obey God by their works.....Exodus 19:8..."The people all responded " We will Do everything the Lord has said"...

instead they should respond like "we will believe what the Lord has said...

That is the difference in us doing things on our own..and us believing in someone (God) doing it for us that is "Faith"

What IS the "law of Christ" if it is not Torah? If it is not Torah, then Yeshua was not doing or preaching His Father's will. A divided house can not stand!

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 25, 2020

pasifika said:
I said the new covenant was not made with the unfaithful Israelites again... they perish in the desert...
The new covenant was made Only with the faithful (both Israel and gentiles including China. .where the proclamation of this new covenant through the message of the prophets and the apostles to the whole world...

No, the covenant per Jeremiah was with Israel an Judah. It says it was with the same people who broke the first one.

pasifika · Feb 25, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
No, the covenant per Jeremiah was with Israel an Judah. It says it was with the same people who broke the first one.

There was no house of Judah in Sinai....I mean Israel was not divided into two kingdoms...
Also, the scripture clearly said " not like the covenant i made with their ancestors....

So, this new covenant are to the descendants of those in Sinai..."faithful"..

"Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel "
So, not with the unfaithful Israelites that new covenant was made...

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